Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[havingfitz]

@ KidAdm...I assume the question/s you are referring to are from your post 1803.

Well...your post kind of provides my response. OoO says I am scumreading him because he is being a dick to other people.

My response to that (and to several other misquotes I lay out in the same post) is that I never call OoO a dick. If you want to infer that I think he is a dick (which I actually do given his play of late) because I say he is ad-homing people and disparaging their abilities...that's your perogative. I do not however always think that ad homing people and disparaging another person's play makes someone a dick. So my objection to OoO saying I scumread him for being a dick was quite literally based on the fact I had not called him a dick.

The failure (IMO) to answer my questions...the failure (IMO) to provide a case on me when he feels I deserve his vote...and the ad-homs towards and disparaging of others are some reasons I suspect OoO and would like to see him lynched. And for D1 suspicions they are were than suitable reasons for me to be good with an OoO lynch.

But I'm not sure where you think you have caught me in a lie. The lie (by OoO) is saying I suspect OoO for being a dick. To be clear...I do not think someone being a dick is alignment indicative in the least. I even say that somewhere in my response to OoO.

I do however think setting the groundwork of discrediting the ability of other players is suspect and benefits scum when said discredited players make cases/comments that are detrimental to scum's wincon...they may be taken less seriously by other town. But OoO doesn't defend himself against that...he defends it against the lesser NAI offense of being a dick. Which I did not call him.

What are your thoughts on the blatant misquotes OoO attributes to me that I point out in post 1794?

Basically I take issue with people paraphrasing me and calling it an actual quote.

[outoforder]

So you are casing for reasons you literally stated were not the reasons to case me earlier on. Good job!

[outoforder]

Can we have more votes on me? I want out of this game.

[outoforder]

I am mafia so you should all vote for me.

[havingfitz]

So you are casing for reasons you literally stated were not the reasons to case me earlier on. Good job!

You said I was scumreading you because you're a dick.
I never called you a dick.
If I had scumread you for being a dick that would be a shit reason IMO.
Ad homing is a very minimal reason to suspect someone.
Discrediting players undeservedly however is somewhat AI IMO.
You took an AI reason I suspected you and twisted it into a NAI reason.
A misrep.
A suspect action.

[BlackVoid]

@Fitz, okay I'll look over the games. Another question you might have missed: when I unvoted Aubrey D1 and voted Hawk, why did you switch to your weak townread Kop instead of going back to your scumread Hap? Hap had more votes at the time too.

[BlackVoid]

@Rels, what do you think of outoforder and Hap discussing reads D1 and going over their disagreement of Fitz and Aubrey? Start reading from 1191 onwards. Interactions seem too genuine for mafia to have. I also thought the way Hap reacted to outoforder at the beginning of the game looked like scum walking on eggshells around a townie as opposed to two scum distancing although that entire interaction was in the span of some 24 hours so I'm not sure I can read much into it. Slightly uneasy here so I want to double-check all other possibilities first.

[outoforder]

BV do you realize the game wont progress anywhere until you have lynched both me and fitz? There is no amount of convincing that will get you anywhere else. So you can just save 4 weeks of posts where people repeat the same thing over and over again.

I dont feel like i have anything to say in this game anymore. Ive seen enough. I am never going go change my mind here.

[outoforder]

Speaking of how flipped mafia has treatez people, since you guys find that apparently important, here is a funny game:

Go to Hawks filter and write down a players name every time he presents a read on them. In the end there is going to be 10 different names. Wanna guess who is missing?

[Rels]

@Rels, what do you think of outoforder and Hap discussing reads D1 and going over their disagreement of Fitz and Aubrey? Start reading from 1191 onwards. Interactions seem too genuine for mafia to have. I also thought the way Hap reacted to outoforder at the beginning of the game looked like scum walking on eggshells around a townie as opposed to two scum distancing although that entire interaction was in the span of some 24 hours so I'm not sure I can read much into it. Slightly uneasy here so I want to double-check all other possibilities first.

Both of these are entirely possible as partners. The interactions is slightly town indicative I agree. But not hard to fake, especially since it's OOO leading the talk and he definitely can do stuff like that.

[outoforder]

How to play as mafia:

Make a case. Then when someone calls your case bs, say you havent made a case. A week later when someone asks to make a case you make the same case again. Get townread by stupid people. Profit!

[outoforder]

Rels what is your reasoning for townreading fitz?

[BlackVoid]

@Creature - help me solve this game please.

[BlackVoid]

Hap spends the time near the end of D1 trying to convince outoforder to lynch Kop over Fitz. Like Rels said, it could be staged. But it could also be Hap just trying to sway outoforder off of his scumbuddy and onto Kop. See 1199 and 1200. But the reasoning he uses feels similar to what Prohawk used to townread Tenshii in scumteam unpick (he backed off of me therefore he is town). But if neither outoforder nor Fitz are scum, I'm not sure whether Cass makes more sense than Doom/Momo. There's no way Creature or KidAmn are scum.

[outoforder]

I am gonna probably quit mafia again if i get lynched this game. When logic doesnt dictate a game of logical dedution its not a game for me anymore. Games were much better 3yrs ago. Idk whats with these new ppl, surely not logic...

[BlackVoid]

If you are town, I feel you man. It can be hard when everyone is conf-biased into you being scum and is refusing to consider anything else. I'm trying my best to make sure to explore every possibility though.

Here's what I got from

logical deduction:

Hawk's interaction with Hap were extremely scummy because he was voting every counterwagon possible. Hap was also lurking. We lynched Hap. You did everything you could to build a counterwagon to Hap and prevent his lynch. The most logical conclusion is that you're his partner and you were trying to keep him alive. A less logical and less likely conclusion is that were town townreading him for the reasons you did. But I'm still re-reading the game and I'm trying to see your side. I haven't given up trying to see if I'm wrong yet.

[outoforder]

As i said i had never a chance to interact with Hapa on D2. Thats where you wrong. Also i was building a counter wagon on mafia. You cannot call me scum for building a counter wagon when you dont know their alignment, thats just bs imo.

[BlackVoid]

Why did you conclude that he was town at the end of D1 though?

[outoforder]

Even if i had scumread Hapa i would have STILL voted fitz 100% of the time on D2. Thats a fact.

Because he was suspected by basically everyone and noone really wanted to push anyone else until you, but you were supertown anyways. Basically mafia didnt care about him being lynched. Thats bad mafia play. And as i said i have problems with scrub scumteams.

[BlackVoid]

I recall you calling me scum D1 when I apparently couldn't understand your Fitz case D1. How are you now saying I was super-town?

[BlackVoid]

It is rather odd though that Hap did nothing to stop his lynch and Hap and Fitz didn't vote each other until it was pretty much confirmed that the lynch was between the two of them.

[BlackVoid]

@outoforder, can you explain your reasons for why you are townreading doomfeathers?

[havingfitz]

@Fitz, okay I'll look over the games. Another question you might have missed: when I unvoted Aubrey D1 and voted Hawk, why did you switch to your weak townread Kop instead of going back to your scumread Hap? Hap had more votes at the time too.

I was wavering on my scumread on hapa based on the case you made for town!hapa. You had made a convincing case on someone (Aubrey) I was willing to vote. When you backed off Aubrey due to whatever tell you had seen and moved to Hawk...that was not an option for me because I was townreading Hawk. So that left me with the options of hapa (who you had made a town case on and I assume you were still townreading)...Creature (who was being townread by most/all) and OoO (who was being townread by most/all). So really my non-Hawk options in my mind were hapa or Kop (my weakest town read). Kop had lurked hard and the post he had made just prior to me voting him really pissed me off. And I'd rather be rid of someone who was suspect and underposting than someone who was suspect and at least participating and making actual posts with content and thought involved. And hapa could always be re-looked at D2 assuming he made it there.

[outoforder]

I recall you calling me scum D1 when I apparently couldn't understand your Fitz case D1. How are you now saying I was super-town?

I dont remember calling you scum. Can you show me where that happened?

I can elaborate on the doom read when i get home. I would need quoting and with phone thats a no-go. So in 2hrs.

[BlackVoid]

@Fitz - so, part of the reason you didn't get back on Hap was because I made a town-case on him? What point specifically did you find most convincing?

Also, is there a reason you haven't voted outoforder right now or pushed for his lynch? If you were confident that he's the last scum, I'd have expected a stronger push there or some sort of reaction to me and Rels saying that we should lynch him. You never commenting on that or making a push on him is weirding me out.

@outoforder - I'm referring to 1007.