Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

[BlackVoid]

Yeah doom/momo can be mafia.

I never bus. There is no way Hawk gets lynched D1 if i am scum here. You can be sure of that.

The Hawk wagon sprung up after you left. You didn't know Hawk was getting lynched until you showed up at deadline and he was at L-1.

[Creature]

idk, this is ooo's only game.

[BlackVoid]

You had your vote parked on Fitz who wasn't getting lynched and your last post before you left was 1227. Aubrey was at L-2 at that point with no votes on Hawk (see VC in 1230). Then I unvoted after that and pushed Hawk. When you showed up again in 1376 and said you had 10 minutes, Hawk was at L-1. I asked you to hammer and you did.

Saying there's no way Hawk gets lynched D1 if you are scum here feels like you are misrepresenting what actually happened. What exactly were you going to do in the 10 minutes you had to sway the wagon off of Hawk? You were pretty much forced into hammering. There were a couple of hours left to deadline and if somebody else hammered, that would have looked bad.

It also fits into my theory that Hap bussed to score two mislynches on Fitz and Rels. In that case, his partner would be in a decent position and you fit into that profile. I can easily see the two of you bussing Hawk to mislynch people defending him.

[outoforder]

I have to double check if fitz can be mafia with hapa. I dont remember, but my gut says no for some reason.

BV youre right. I would still have pushed Kop over him (hapa was around the time i was here too if i remember correctly). And i would have found reasons to hop on aubrey (remember hapa was the counter wagon there).

Anyways, it doesnt matter. If thats your argument then i cant say nothing more to it. Youre underestimating my scumplay if you think thats the case though. ^^

[BlackVoid]

I don't think I'm underestimating you. I came into the game reading you as obvtown. The Aubrey wagon had a lot more momentum than the Hap wagon at that point so it makes more sense to just let town lynch Aubrey while fishing for cred. You had Hawk as your third scumread and Kop as your second. I think it would be a hard sell to get everyone on Kop in 10 minutes while you had Hawk as a scumread.

[outoforder]

Well. I wont defend myself the next day and there is no need to make a case. I have said everything i have to say regarding that and i wont waste my time on it.

BV just tell Rels and creature to give me 48h to figure out the last mafia. If they then want to lynch me they can do it. Rels is gonna have a hard time after that (when me and creature have flipped) unless momo is mafia.

[KidAmn]

idk, this is ooo's only game.

Ooo doesn't get to use that when he's talked as much shit about people as he has in this game and claims as much offsite experience as a mafia-wunderkind as he does.

PEdit - holy AtE Batman

[outoforder]

I don't think I'm underestimating you. I came into the game reading you as obvtown. The Aubrey wagon had a lot more momentum than the Hap wagon at that point so it makes more sense to just let town lynch Aubrey while fishing for cred. You had Hawk as your third scumread and Kop as your second. I think it would be a hard sell to get everyone on Kop in 10 minutes while you had Hawk as a scumread.

With me and hapa its suddenly Kop L-1 and Hawk L-2 and noone was really townreading kop.

What do you think cassielle for example will do there?

[Creature]

Haven't found any of his games.

[outoforder]

I don't think I'm underestimating you. I came into the game reading you as obvtown. The Aubrey wagon had a lot more momentum than the Hap wagon at that point so it makes more sense to just let town lynch Aubrey while fishing for cred. You had Hawk as your third scumread and Kop as your second. I think it would be a hard sell to get everyone on Kop in 10 minutes while you had Hawk as a scumread.

You know what is funny in your read regaeding me and this situation?

I am telling you that this is not what the game would look like if i was mafia and mafia is losing super hard here.

So yeah, you kinda are underestimating my scumgame..^^

[outoforder]

Haven't found any of his games.

I havent played any games here.
Ivr played lile 130 games elsewhere though.

[Creature]

Where?

[outoforder]

Teamliquid and Vendetta Strada. And some eandom gamea on some other random forums.

I go under the nick raynpelikoneet on TL.
There is a mafia database on the mafia forum where you can see everyone's games. Rels posted a öink to the database on D1.

[Rels]

Teamliquid mafia game database : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/3 ... a-database
CTRL + F with "raynpelikoneet"
His last scum game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/5 ... pelikoneet

[Rels]

Teamliquid mafia game database : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/3 ... a-database
CTRL + F with "raynpelikoneet"
His last scum game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/5 ... pelikoneet

We don't have sign up threads, the game only start a few posts after the start of page 2 on his filter.

[Rels]

VOTE: Creature

It's kind of ironic that I'm telling OOO to vote while forgetting to vote for anyone myself.

VOTE: Frederick E Campbell

who seems to be lurking at the moment.

Sorry, I'm putting less attention into this game rn.

You wrote on your wiki that that's a scumtell for you.

VOTE: Creature

Oh hi SlySly

Huh?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... to_Read_Me

Read the last sentence of paragraph 3.

You could say that just as easily as scum.

UNVOTE: Creature
VOTE: Frederick

outoforder, Rels, doomfeathers.

Let's fuse together to powertown this game.

I'm not convinced you're town, and I haven't read Rels yet. I'll help discuss, but I reserve the right to vote whoever I please.

I wish you people not voting would vote. I don't care if your the type of person who doesn't like to vote until you feel reaaal good about someone before voting them. Put your vote on the scummiest person so far already.

I'll consider what you've said.

But honestly, I think Aubrey's 222 seems a little to eager to end this day.
VOTE: Aubrey

Let's try to work as town anyways.

Do you mean you're scum, and you're trying to work as though you're town?

Wow.

In this post from a scum thread, Fredrick states that he as scum usually picks someone at random to question. Does this questioning fit that method? Could this be sloppy town, or is it more likely lazy scum?

Yeah, to some extent. This is only Fredrick's fourth game, and he doesn't appear to post much.

VOTE: hapahauli

Not really scummy. More less not-scummy.

Hang on, I think I've got a case.

VOTE: Kop

His posting tone seems bored and rather uncaring, which clashes strongly with his activity and content. I think he's scum trying to look town.

[boop]

VOTE: Fredrick

because I think he's lazy scum.

Uggggghhhh so yeah I thought that's what I saw. Doom really pings me because while he's been fairly active and has had good posts here and there a lot of it is pretty easy to fake as scum.

Doom flips his vote a lot with little actual say from himself on why or where or how. Particularly I find his vote against FEC just recently bothersome. You vote him for low content then give him benefit of being a newbie and not posting much then vote him again cause he's lazy scum? Naaaah dog lots of other people also fall under the low activity scummy feel than just FEC. Not that you don't point it out just you chose to focus here. Feels like low hanging fruit. He could be scum, but idk. posts are rather sporadic and feel very awkward like his interaction with creature early in the day, his questioning of the unvote just to post hey you said why two posts later so I get where some of the question of FEC comes from but I don't see why Doom votes Hapa for being not town enough, then Kop for case based off tone and activity (both of which are NAI) and back to Fred where you were before because he's lazy (despite you saying before) that he was new and doesn't post much from what you've dug out.

This post alone makes it quite unlikely that doom / Hawk are a team. Especially since it's Hawk's first game. It's his first serious psot and it's spending all this time on doom. Pretty unlikely partners jsut for taht

[Rels]

If scum had daytalk, we could make some hypothesis.

Outside of other things, this dumbtell makes Creature town like 75% of the time. UNLESS he is the kind of scum to do stuff like that. If not, fake dumbtells are quite rare 'cause it feels so dumb to do them as scum, so funnily enough they often come from town.

[Rels]

so yeah. Basically. Lynch OOO.

[BlackVoid]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards it being more likely outoforder than Momo. The way he defended Hap when I invited him to discuss reads just didn't make any sense and felt like a stretch.

Creature is town for more than just that "dumbtell." If you were reading his ISO, you'd see that he spent the vast majority of his time trying to get both Hawk and Hap lynched. KidAmn, I'm townreading mostly for how emotional his reaction was to Hap pushing him. Didn't feel fabricated. Fitz I think is town because he argued against your (Rels) wagon as well as KidAmn's and pushing against two town wagons to lynch his buddy doesn't make sense to me. I also doubt he would scumread a partner and give reasoning like "Rels and outoforder scumread him so that should be taken into consideration." His reasoning for townreading Hawk was the same as mine initially (Hawk's long wall), and he was pretty consistent throughout. If he were indeed townreading Hawk, then I can see him arguing against the lynch. So, that's three people I'm fairly sure are town (Creature, KidAmn, and Fitz).

That leaves you (Rels) who I need to re-read but I'm leaning town, Cass, Kop, Momo, and outoforder. Those reads are roughly in the order of towniest to scummiest.

[Rels]

yep I townread creature before reading that dumbtell. That cemented the townread.
And ofc this is TL meta so I understand why yuo all are not as sure as me. But rayn would NEVER not be as least a little be doubtful about Fitz versus Hapa when Hapa played like that. It is not possible. And it makes total sense that he did that if he's scum => when Hapa dies he's very, very likely to be lynched at some point since we have lots of mislynches left + he can also die every time he kills someone if the target armed during that night. Best course of option there was to try and get a Fitz mislynch. It makes sense. It explains the nice psots to Cass, then the big case on Fitz that was targeted specifically at you BV.

[Rels]

OOO's Hapa read makes no sense if OOO is town.
OOO's Hapa read makes total sense if OOO is his partner.

[Rels]

How he treated Cass when Cass was voting him:

And yeah, cassielle literally yelled for the last three pages that "we cannot lynch anyone but hapa" (which was simply untrue), "if we however do we end up on town" (which was simply untrue), then voted for her townread Hawk (which is quite dumb imo - especially considering what she said before), and then, before the flip blamed all the world for lynching a townie and offered rope for the dude who lead a lynch on mafia (you think this makes sense?). Sooo... again i don't think i am far from truth when saying she was disruptive (because she was) and not making any sense (because she wasn't).

Again, this game is about convincing people to follow your lead by writing posts about people who are likely to be mafia. I do not think she is doing that. I do ignore those kind of people (unless i think they are mafia - which i don't think is the case here) because at best they are not helping town. I can't probably help you or her to understand me better since you take it personally when i express you are not playing very logically. I just state the things as they are. I also find it very hypocritical coming from you since YOU (and at least hapahauli and Rels) have definitely done the same exact thing you call ad hom here. But maybe you ad homing - if that's what you call it - is just better than me doing it....

But then when Cass is on his side:

i have thoughts on the rels/kidamn interaction going on but im saving them while i wait for the big damn mistake that's a-coming down the pipe
someone in this thread isnt paying attention and i won't say whooooo

Nah, that shit didn't fly D1, it doesnt fly now either.

if you mean me not talking about the interaction:
i am waiting on something to happen

if you mean me not talking about the person not paying attention:
theyre the one whos going to flub it and im waiting to see if its a townflub or a scumflub

talking about who im watching specifically defeats the purpose, they know they need to modify behavior
talking about the interaction itself makes both sides self-aware and feel exposed, which increases the chances they make a dumb move, which is the whole point
and talking about it in this weird circular way also increases those chances for the same reasons

that dumb move will tell me much more about them (especially the one im looking at the most) than most of the rest of their play will today

Beware though. People are gonna make a big fuzz about it for no reason and then start calling you scum when you explain because "you created a big mess". Trust me i know what i am talking about! I am interested in this though since it looks like you think you're onto something good. Hope it's something good.

Thanks for that though Cass.
So at post 888 we are looking at:

[L-4] Hapahauli - KidAmn, Creature, BlackVoid
[L-5] KidAmn - Rels, hapahauli
[L-5] Kop - Aubrey, doomfeathers
[L-5] Rels - Kop, Hawk
[L-6] doomfeathers - MooginSoosy
[L-6] havingfitz - outoforder

read a little further ahead, just after the vc where the rels wagon has 4 people on board -- hes saying he doesnt want a rels lynch today, he wants a hapa lynch d1, hes just pressing rels for (???? something about a lynch)

If this is true seems like he wasn't wanting to lynch Rels after all.. ^^

[BlackVoid]

@Rels, the one thing stopping me from solidly townreading you is your reaction to Hap's cases on KidAmn, Fitz, and Kop D1. Can you explain what made you change your mind there?

[Rels]

BV comes and say he's not unvoting Hapa:

I'm not unvoting Hap.
[...]

Then OOO makes a giant case directed at BV to make him change his mind: viewtopic.php?p=8957435#p8957435

Alright, here we go BlackVoid. I am going to hope you read this.

Not trying to change the mind of the town in KidDamn / Rels in his POV. Only BV. The one he KNOWS he must convince.

[BlackVoid]

Yeah, 1425 pinged me slightly when I read it but for different reasons. Telling Cass she was disruptive because she was pushing me before Hawk's flip feels manipulative given Cass wouldn't know that I had led a lynch on mafia and would just be arguing for what she thought was best.