Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Terata]

First and only read: frogg town. I think the way hes talking down to sheep constantly while pressuring is kinda hard to fake well as scum. Some1 can fill me in ok froggs scum play?

I havent played with sheep b4 obv, but he strikes me as a person that would defend himself awkardly as either alignment, so while i think towns could be pinged by his weird wordings, i dont rly think its scummy.

I would like to know why Wheme thinks the 3 agreeing with froggs push looked scummy to him. You think sheep has posted towny enough for it to be weird for townies to push on him too? I certainly dont and would love some expanding

Can you tell me how often Frogger and Terata play together? Would help me get a better feel for this post because it's the first one and Frog seems like a good player to have on your side.

never. first game on the site

[Terata]

Towns:

Frogg

Lowell
gerry

Scum:

Sheep
Hawk

Lil Uzi Vert

i did reread Sheep, even if i still stand by he would over-defend himself awkwardly as either alignment, i think i still lean scum to the way he's not posted even 1 thing i could find towny

It doesn't really make sense to defend someone and scum-read them at the same time.

well it kinda does. i had a close to null read on him since by his posting style i thought he would post awkwardly as both alignments (ive played with loads of people like that), and i still think that. So my mind-set was that even if he was town d1 he would get scum read a lot because of his playstyle and i wanted to lynch someone i didn't have such a personality read on.

Why i voted him later was as i said he was the least-town read person i had that was voting Lowell at the time, who i thought was town and a mislynch that at least 1 scum for sure would be on.

[Terata]

So i didn't really have a strong scum read on sheep posting-wise, even towards the end, i just thought he was the most likely scum on Lowell because of PoE and townreads of various degrees on the other voters.

[Terata]

And if i wpould bus sheep, why the fk would i have such a lame ass reason as that and get less cred than if i listed loads of scummy stuff i saw sheep do. If im scum and know sheep is scum, then i have loads of such reason to just list up that i actuslly believe in because i know it to be true.

It just makes no sense for me to be like "eh i think lowell is town and i think there's a scum in the voters so im voting sheep" instead of "SHEEP IS SCUMMY BECAUSE X, Y AND Z" and get cred.

AIA also using this as a point against me is ??

[Terata]

still feel Lowell has a towny straight to the point tone and think he's just likely town lhf. And if im right on Lowell, i think there has to be scum in his vote right now. Sheep is the one i feel worst about individually there. So VOTE: Cooperative Sheep. i would trust you if you found a better cfd Frogg, but i just don't like the Lowell lynch today

And then there is.....

im confused by this post though if IAI is town. Why would one of the main points to why he might be wrong in his read on me be weirded out smiley and he has absolutely no thoughts on it? I would expect either some kind of possible explanation so it fits in his world like "oh but he voted his partner because x" or a comment adding some doubt to his read, like "there's at least 1 point in his favour", but the comment just quotes my post and subtly shades it without giving any thoughts.

JUST SO WEIRD

[Lowell]

Lowell....what do you think of the Terata case?

I don't know. I would be surprised if it's him but I won't rule anyone out.

Basically I think Unknown has more to gain by jumping on the sheep wagon at the end of D1 to theatrically hammer than terata does earlier in the wagon. Also, frogger was townreading terata pretty hard so the Ali move doesn't make a ton of sense to save terata. Although it is also true that terata being on the sheep wagon would explain why they couldn't turn the lynch to me-- terata abandoning ship when sheep got to dangerous ground would be too obvious.

tl:dr, not sold.

[Terata]

Honestly, I can't see a way to convince anyone of Havingfitz being the last scum. If Terata is Town then Town will 99% lose. I'll vote when we are ready to end day.

really?

[Terata]

Lowell....what do you think of the Terata case?

I don't know. I would be surprised if it's him but I won't rule anyone out.

Basically I think Unknown has more to gain by jumping on the sheep wagon at the end of D1 to theatrically hammer than terata does earlier in the wagon. Also, frogger was townreading terata pretty hard so the Ali move doesn't make a ton of sense to save terata.

Although it is also true that terata being on the sheep wagon would explain why they couldn't turn the lynch to me

-- terata abandoning ship when sheep got to dangerous ground would be too obvious.

tl:dr, not sold.

You mean why scum couldn't turn after i voted? Frogg followed me and he had a lot of influence. Not weird that they couldn't back the lynch back to you imo when Alisae had already tied himself to Frogg and Frogg followed me onto Sheep.

[Terata]

Lowell....what do you think of the Terata case?

I don't know. I would be surprised if it's him but I won't rule anyone out.

Basically I think Unknown has more to gain by jumping on the sheep wagon at the end of D1 to theatrically hammer than terata does earlier in the wagon. Also, frogger was townreading terata pretty hard so the Ali move doesn't make a ton of sense to save terata.

Although it is also true that terata being on the sheep wagon would explain why they couldn't turn the lynch to me

-- terata abandoning ship when sheep got to dangerous ground would be too obvious.

tl:dr, not sold.

You mean why scum couldn't turn after i voted? Frogg followed me and he had a lot of influence. Not weird that they couldn't back the lynch back to you imo when Alisae had already tied himself to Frogg and Frogg followed me onto Sheep.

Since if Sheep is the one being wagoned, and Alisae (one of the partners) is voting Frogg too (he didn't really have a choice but to follow Frogg with how he had been treating Frogg previously, and Hawk also made the wagon happen before Alisae felt forced to vote) then there's only 1 partner left outside of that. So why would it be weird that the wagon on you couldn't happen if im town?

[I Am Innocent]

Here's my own thoughts i took during the iso. I started writing down the post numbers half way through and it's super messy, but sry i don't have the energy to correct it all. Ask me if you're confused

Spoiler:

Gerry: #35 feels weirdly phrased in a way i could see being partners. "You would have preferred I denied something without even knowing what it was? " +

Chaos: " I'll remind people that I've had issues with Chaos for some time now, just in case anyone wants to have a complaint about me hopping on that wagon if it catches much more steam " "I'm still fine calling Chaos scum though, I just got there on the WK road." "we're discussing a scumread on Chaos." he seems to want to make it VERY clear he's scumreading Chaos and he seems very self-aware of what he's doing. So even though i think it would usually look good for Choas it gives me distancy vibes. He also had basically 2 scum reads in Hawk/Chaos but put all real pressure on Hawk and only mentioned Chaos in the passing. And later when the pressure on Lowell started he STILL kept Chaos as his second lynch and slipped in Lowell as first without really mentioning him much earlier.

Wheme: #632 really feels like spew. like hard spew. And with how sheep talked early about scum Whiteknighting, i wouldn't be suprised if that's a big part of his play.

EC: Just no interactions

Lowell: towntown "So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town." He's using "@Lowell" several times for meh questions where it doesn't really fit in. Dunno what to make of that. #1291:i feel like scum often wants to avoid being seen as having tmi when talking about pre-flips. Maybe this read is dumb, but im giving lowell townpoints for sheep's post. Also the way Lowell jumped to sheep's top lynch towards the end and being the CW obviously looks good for Lowell

Penguin/Alisae: Basically no interactions, but Penguin didn't play and Alisae subbed in towards the end, so i won't read into that.

AJ: #223: "but I'll sheep AJ for the moment." a bit blatant if partners, but idk. "If you have suggestions for future games I'd love to hear them.." this doesn't strike me as a tone that's designed to please AJ, like it's been at other times to others. He's more lowkey salty for AJ pushing him, which could be because AJ was accusing a partner.

Naomi/HavingFitz: "That's an interesting way to look at it - I don't think I can fully come with you on it" "Why would you say there is red between us three when everything you've said on the matter has me and Terata as green. Isn't that an explicit contradiction."- Naomi. ++ #321 also +

Lil/unknown: "Avoiding LilUzi because he's currently less active." "You then attack Uzi (one of my attackers)" hm. The part in #321 where he responds to Lil's vote doesn't feel at all like a partner interactions. #1222 "I feel safe in the knowledge

you'll

have a lot of people to lynch before I'm the worst lurker " i think sheep's phrasing here is super spew-y

Frogg: towntown. Scum doesn't use 70% of their posts responding/trying to justify his own actions to a partner. thats a partner interaction approximately 0 % of the time.

interesting post connected to several: #1206: TMI/spew? or defending a partner in the claims?

I've iso'd Sheep to look for spew more than partner interaction, because they're much harder to differentiate. +++ = lock clear ++ = looks good, + = looks slightly good. - = something pinged me

+++: Frogg
++: Naomi/fitz, Lil/unknown, Wheme, Lowell
+: Gerry

- (ordered worst first): EC, Chaos, AJ

Terata what do you think about your comments here regarding penguin/aliseas slot? Would you agree you are defending them here? Why would you dismiss no interactions with sheep for them but give my slot the worst score for doing the same thing?

Would you agree that is how scum might act with their partner?

[Terata]

Here's my own thoughts i took during the iso. I started writing down the post numbers half way through and it's super messy, but sry i don't have the energy to correct it all. Ask me if you're confused

Spoiler:

Gerry: #35 feels weirdly phrased in a way i could see being partners. "You would have preferred I denied something without even knowing what it was? " +

Chaos: " I'll remind people that I've had issues with Chaos for some time now, just in case anyone wants to have a complaint about me hopping on that wagon if it catches much more steam " "I'm still fine calling Chaos scum though, I just got there on the WK road." "we're discussing a scumread on Chaos." he seems to want to make it VERY clear he's scumreading Chaos and he seems very self-aware of what he's doing. So even though i think it would usually look good for Choas it gives me distancy vibes. He also had basically 2 scum reads in Hawk/Chaos but put all real pressure on Hawk and only mentioned Chaos in the passing. And later when the pressure on Lowell started he STILL kept Chaos as his second lynch and slipped in Lowell as first without really mentioning him much earlier.

Wheme: #632 really feels like spew. like hard spew. And with how sheep talked early about scum Whiteknighting, i wouldn't be suprised if that's a big part of his play.

EC: Just no interactions

Lowell: towntown "So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town." He's using "@Lowell" several times for meh questions where it doesn't really fit in. Dunno what to make of that. #1291:i feel like scum often wants to avoid being seen as having tmi when talking about pre-flips. Maybe this read is dumb, but im giving lowell townpoints for sheep's post. Also the way Lowell jumped to sheep's top lynch towards the end and being the CW obviously looks good for Lowell

Penguin/Alisae: Basically no interactions, but Penguin didn't play and Alisae subbed in towards the end, so i won't read into that.

AJ: #223: "but I'll sheep AJ for the moment." a bit blatant if partners, but idk. "If you have suggestions for future games I'd love to hear them.." this doesn't strike me as a tone that's designed to please AJ, like it's been at other times to others. He's more lowkey salty for AJ pushing him, which could be because AJ was accusing a partner.

Naomi/HavingFitz: "That's an interesting way to look at it - I don't think I can fully come with you on it" "Why would you say there is red between us three when everything you've said on the matter has me and Terata as green. Isn't that an explicit contradiction."- Naomi. ++ #321 also +

Lil/unknown: "Avoiding LilUzi because he's currently less active." "You then attack Uzi (one of my attackers)" hm. The part in #321 where he responds to Lil's vote doesn't feel at all like a partner interactions. #1222 "I feel safe in the knowledge

you'll

have a lot of people to lynch before I'm the worst lurker " i think sheep's phrasing here is super spew-y

Frogg: towntown. Scum doesn't use 70% of their posts responding/trying to justify his own actions to a partner. thats a partner interaction approximately 0 % of the time.

interesting post connected to several: #1206: TMI/spew? or defending a partner in the claims?

I've iso'd Sheep to look for spew more than partner interaction, because they're much harder to differentiate. +++ = lock clear ++ = looks good, + = looks slightly good. - = something pinged me

+++: Frogg
++: Naomi/fitz, Lil/unknown, Wheme, Lowell
+: Gerry

- (ordered worst first): EC, Chaos, AJ

Terata what do you think about your comments here regarding penguin/aliseas slot? Would you agree you are defending them here? Why would you dismiss no interactions with sheep for them but give my slot the worst score for doing the same thing?

Would you agree that is how scum might act with their partner?

It's simple. EC was in the thread a lot and actually played the game. Sheep did too. So it would've made sense for it to be at least some discussion both were involved in. But Penguin literally just popped in and didn't interact with anyone, so it's not weird he and penguin didn't have any discussion.

And to your second question. Are you refering to my initial read, where i gave "-" points for having no interactions? Then yes, i think scum usually have problems interacting back and forth with one another.

If you're refering to my own post and if i would deal with my reads as i did if i were scum with PP/Ali, then it's a terribly leading question, and yes i probably would since the reason for my read i made this game would make sense if i were scum aswell.

[Terata]

and AIA, if you have any questions you actually want an ANSWER to and are not just leading questions that's there to imply me as scum, then you can go ahead and ask me. I'm slightly leaning towards it being fitz after all, so trying to get you out of your tunnel is worth my time

[Terata]

actually, now i remember fitz's reaction to the sheep lynch after it was hammered and b4 the flip was pretty towny. i swapped again, im probably leaning towards it being you slightly. But go ahead and ask anyway, since you might be town

[Terata]

also forgot the Naomi (fitz slot) comment to sheep about him contradicting himself, god i was away for so long i should reread my notes again. Im probably lynching AIA today after all.

[Unknown1234]

I don't see a good reason why Terata doesn't jump on me if scum right now. Unless they think I'm 100% going to be lynchex.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell....what do you think of the Terata case?

I don't know. I would be surprised if it's him but I won't rule anyone out.

Basically I think Unknown has more to gain by jumping on the sheep wagon at the end of D1 to theatrically hammer than terata does earlier in the wagon. Also, frogger was townreading terata pretty hard so the Ali move doesn't make a ton of sense to save terata. Although it is also true that terata being on the sheep wagon would explain why they couldn't turn the lynch to me-- terata abandoning ship when sheep got to dangerous ground would be too obvious.

tl:dr, not sold.

I think you should actually talk to me TBH.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell your biggest issue is that your letting Alisae's actions convince you that fitz and IAI are innocent. It's actually incredibly stupid.

Can you say why I'm scum other than because Ali convinced u that her teammate is someone who wasn't in danger.

[Terata]

oh hey. what's the actual vc right now? i hate not being able to post one

[Unknown1234]

Terata, can you explain to me why IAI is your pick over Havingfitz in more detail? Otherwise it looks like you are trying to vote him to make him vote me in order to survive (because Town does that too)

My hands are freezing and I'm slow messaging on my phone. I'll be home soon.

[Unknown1234]

Lowell is voting me. IAI is on you.

[Terata]

Lowell your biggest issue is that your letting

Alisae's actions convince you that fitz and IAI are innocent.

It's actually incredibly stupid.

Can you say why I'm scum other than because Ali convinced u that her teammate is someone who wasn't in danger.

Wait did he actually say that? i skimmed past most of the stuff that weren't directly about me since i felt stressed being prodded and saw all the accusations about me.

That's actually suuuper terrible for us if he's gonna stick with that logic

[Unknown1234]

He said that Alisae wouldn't have pulled that gambit if she didn't have confidence in her team. He's too arrogant and actually won't discuss/listen to me.

[Firebringer]

Our fans have asked us. Will Bringer Mafia II have a sequel? Our answer is always: Maybe.

Vote Count #5.02:

Terata [L-2] I am Innocent
Unknown1234 [L-2] Lowell

Not Voting (3): Havingfitz, Unknown1234, Terata,

With 5 people alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

V/LA: HavingFitz is V/LA till Monday

Deadline:

(expired on 2017-03-14 16:45:00)

[Terata]

Terata, can you explain to me why IAI is your pick over Havingfitz in more detail? Otherwise it looks like you are trying to vote him to make him vote me in order to survive (because Town does that too)

My hands are freezing and I'm slow messaging on my phone. I'll be home soon.

I don't really follow your logic in the second sentence.

But reasoning for why i suspect IAI a bit more.

"Naomi/HavingFitz: "That's an interesting way to look at it - I don't think I can fully come with you on it" "Why would you say there is red between us three when everything you've said on the matter has me and Terata as green. Isn't that an explicit contradiction."- Naomi. ++ #321 also +"

this i copied from my notes of ISO'ing sheep. I still think Naomi calling sheep contradictory was pretty w/v looking. And Fitz started arguing with someone (you i think?) after sheep was lynched about how bad it was that sheep was lynched. Scum in that situation would know their partner was gonna flip red in a little while and connecting himself to sheep would be a weird move (unless WIFOM but even in that case i think it's decently hard to fake well, and it looked believable to me).

Also even though i think AIA's push on me has looked like he believes in it i have less stuff i've felt towny about from him. Also the post i quoted with him not having ANY thoughts at all about my vote on sheep even though it was heavily discussed and obviously an important moment. Just kinda slipped it in there.

And even though he has felt like he believes the push, he's also said that "it's possible im wrong, this is why blablabla" when he was talking to you earlier. And i don't think his questioning of me has reflected that. He's "asked" his question in a way that already feels decided, more like a case than wanting to know the answers from me. And the very last post from him today reflected that thought i had aswell. He had a chance to ask me for stuff and the thing he said was "would you say this is how scum would deal with their partners?" or something like that, implying im supposed to call myself scum (if i interpreted the question right). Just feelt wrong.

The reason why i suspected Fitz first was that i didn't remember the interactions from Naomi with Sheep and his way of handing sheep post-hammer and that he has felt kind of on the sidelines a big part of today. And his case on you felt bad aswell. Tbh i think it could be both of them but im leaning IAI

[Terata]

Im back. I got super busy IRL and again im multitabling like a moron in a faster game. But im not gonna say more on that, cuz it's pointless.

So, some thoughts.

I'm never gonna vote Lowell this game, ever. The reason i caught sheep was because i thought Lowell felt town and i went looking for scum on that Wagon and sheep was the least towny one. I just don't ever see things playing out like they did if Lowell's scum.

I still think the things i wrote about Sheep's comments on the unknown slot was pretty w/v-looking / spewy. And i think Unknowns way of handling this day has felt the towniest. Others have only been making cases made to convince others to lynch specific people while unknown has actually tried to have a conversation with people and evaluating them. Their way of swapping slowly from thinking i was town to re-isoing and finding things they disliked to still suspecting others felt VERY real to me. Also maybe im stupid but im buying the stuff about them not knowing about scum's day-chat and from feeling unknown out from reading their posts, i don't think they're a player to try to clear themselves from something that stupid. So im locking in them as town too.

So for me the path from here is pretty easy. just lynch fitz/IAI, and be done with it. But i know im a suspect so it isn't that easy.

Ok, so the biggest reason (from what i've precieved) to why IAI says im scum is that "Alisae wouldn't have made the fakeclaim if the partner is in the back-then-suspects". This is terrible logic. Scum KNOWS people evaluate their play after they die, so saying that Alisae and her partner didn't even think about how his claim would look after the flip is just beyond bad. Since scum would know for sure this logic would be taken up, if not by themselves (if you're scum) it will be taken up by the town (if someone else is the last scum). Right now im leaning SLIGHTLY more towards fitz, simply because you have focused so little on preparing the second mislynch after me if you're scum, and you're gonna look pretty bad when i flip town. This is wifom too of course and you could totally be scum doing this, but the way you swapped your second suspect in the span of 1 page felt like a move that scum perhaps wouldn't make if they're focused on getting me lynched.

But regardless, if im scum, and Frogg is harddefending me for the rest of the game, WHY would you fakeclaim a red on FROGG OF ALL PEOPLE that will lead you straight to the win. That no1 has taken this up yet is weirding me out.

So yeah, Lowell town, unknown town, 1 of fitz and IAI scum, leaning fitz.

@Lowell come and read this part if you're still thinking along the lines unknown just laid out. Because to clear those 2 based on that seems ludicris. you don't think scum would think about what Ali's actions would look after she flipped scum?