Judging is A LOT of work.
Especially when there's little discretion in nominations and there's a good half-dozen or dozen games entered for each category.
And its entirely a volunteer basis.
I was a judge for 2011. And another year.
I know, I have been a judge multiple times too
It's a lot of work, yes, but perhaps instead of just announcing the position of scummies judge and hoping the right people sign up (many were lazy/took a long time this time around, not naming names), we should invite people we find to be excellent at such tedious work who appreciate attention to detail (perhaps look at the people who balance setups, mod crazy games with a lot of swingy roles (which turn out well repeatedly)), etc. Names come to mind such as callforjudgement (he even has "judge" in his name for crying out loud), Varsoon, mhsmith0.
If we invite high-caliber people, perhaps they will realize it's another way they can contribute to the community that they might not have considered before, because they were otherwise occupied doing their other community service.
Anyway... not trying to be argumentative, just explaining my point and showing that there was a thought process behind it.
In post 1034, xRECKONERx wrote:Why do you think we need that when we literally had a hydra win the best scum player award this year
Hydra's are actually a thing. What I mean is that I think it would be best if people stop burying their heads in the sand fighting the inevitability that Hydra's are very very popular amongst players and I think more regular playing players do do Hydras than do not. Giving a Hydra a specific award gives Hydra players an incentive to play to the best of their ability, to elevate their play to something they couldn't do by themselves alone. It adds a layer of competition to Hydra play - especially but not limited to Hydra only games.
I don't think Hydra's should be able to be eligible to win the Body of Work and Single Game awards. I think things like winning Most Cunning Manipulator is a lot easier to win if you are in a Hydra with someone. Not to take away the Skill that is found in Malakittens and Plotinus, because I respect both players play a lot. But with awards like Most Cunning Manipulator, its almost like having a Team within a Team and I feel that all the single player awards and body of work awards should be specific to individual players. Two heads are better that one, and I think it gives Hydra players an edge when considering who is the "Best" - singular.
There should be a single "Best" for any award that can be won by a single person and a special award that is specific to Hydra play. I do think that when considering Moderation that Hydras should be eligible. And I say this not considering in the slightest that Mala and Plot should be stripped of their title - they deserved it.
It kind of seems like you're holistically making the point that the degree of difficulty is lower with a hydra and therefore they need separate awards. If the degree of difficulty truly is lower, that means hydras have an unfair advantage and therefore should not be allowed in games at all.
Additionally, the argument that hydras are "inevitable" is funny considering they've been around for like six years now and haven't had significant numerical growth for a years.
Part of the conditions to my argument are that Hydras are here to stay and are a pretty big part of the site, yeah. You did get the argument right in the first paragraph so that at least makes me feel understood, which is good.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
In post 1078, Untrod Tripod wrote:that doesn't address what I said. are you asserting that hydras have a lower degree of difficulty than single-player slots or not?
I am saying at the very least in theory Hydras have a lower difficulty, yes.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
usually when you introduce a "special" category, it's because otherwise they participants would have a hard time competing in the "open" section. For examples, the LPGA is for women because professional women generally can't hit the ball as far as professional men. Under 18 national soccer teams are for teenagers because adults play better and are more physically able.
You don't generally introduce a special category to further celebrate the people who would already win the open category.
In post 1080, zoraster wrote:usually when you introduce a "special" category, it's because otherwise they participants would have a hard time competing in the "open" section. For examples, the LPGA is for women because professional women generally can't hit the ball as far as professional men. Under 18 national soccer teams are for teenagers because adults play better and are more physically able.
You don't generally introduce a special category to further celebrate the people who would already win the open category.
I don't think it is the same situation here, but I digress.
I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.
ahshfksjdn that was really flippant let me phone post an actual argument
so kodak moment is obviously a thing. i'd put that LSGs are like, the equivalent to mafia games in terms of mishmash, and a lot of brutal/iconic stuff happens in them (school survivor alone: murdering the baby, truth tea; previous examples would be stuff like seafoam's legendary box), and i think it'd be neat
hmmm i think it becomes hard to attribute a moment to one specific person though??? like wouldn't the baby moment technically just be all 3 mods plus dan for killing the baby? idk
On the one hand, that walks us closer to be disproportionate to the actual activity that social games represent. On the other, Kodak Moment for social games seems a very appropriate award. In many ways a better award than best player does.
i think the disproportionality thing is a good thing to keep in mind, and if there's maybe some consolidation possible (although with so few awards there, idk what could be done)
also i'd just award it to dan tbh, mods didn't kill no baby
In post 1085, zoraster wrote:On the one hand, that walks us closer to be disproportionate to the actual activity that social games represent. On the other, Kodak Moment for social games seems a very appropriate award. In many ways a better award than best player does.
Yeah, I agree... I think the "best overall person in mish mash" award might be kinda meh in comparison to best moment?
In post 1080, zoraster wrote:usually when you introduce a "special" category, it's because otherwise they participants would have a hard time competing in the "open" section. For examples, the LPGA is for women because professional women generally can't hit the ball as far as professional men. Under 18 national soccer teams are for teenagers because adults play better and are more physically able.
You don't generally introduce a special category to further celebrate the people who would already win the open category.
correct. I mean, I don't really buy the premise that hydras are so much better (that's not why i tend to dislike them), but if they ARE better and more able to win awards, it doesn't make much sense to create a separate category for them unless they are completely banned from winning other awards.
In post 1084, xRECKONERx wrote:hmmm i think it becomes hard to attribute a moment to one specific person though???
Lest I be mistaken, Kodak Moment isn't specifically one person. Multiple people involved in a moment can and have been consistently nominated. (Same for Don Corelone under the new system: it can be a single member, but it could also potentially be a whole scumteam nominated.)
I mean, if this isn't true, then frankly the descriptions for the awards are lying to nominators because nominators have been led to believe that these are things that a group can win.
i meant more in the context of "it is hard to attribute something like game design to just the players when the mods put it there in the first place" so why dont we pump the fucking brakes on calling out lies
I sort of hate the existence of Kodak Moment as an award. It's super fluffy, and feels pretty meaningless. It's like a consolation award, at least when applied to moments that could have also been nominated for other awards. It's cool to be noticed, but aren't those memorable things about people the reason why titles are a big deal here?
For example, I would have preferred to be nominated for Hannibal Lecter and LOST(which is what would have happened because Elyse crushed it) then actually winning Kodak Moment. It just doesn't have nearly the same level of significance as any of the other awards.
(Yes, I know it's a bit ridiculous to be bringing this up as one of the people who currently has the banner for that award.)
Anyways, I sorta feel like Kodak Moment either shouldn't exist, or should be much more limited in scope to "funny" moments.
Kodak moment isn't game design, though?
It's literally a memorable moment--mechanics CAN play a part in a memorable moment, but a memorable moment can be literally anything:
Good town play.
A hilarious post.
A notable exchange.
All of those are things within the scope of the award, without game design involved, without mods involved, just purely off of players doing their thing.