Mini 536: Heroes Smalltown. Game Over!

[ZONEACE]

ZA: Argumentative and unhelpful at times. Voted no lynch very early. He did explain his reasons for this, but they don't read right to me ... he was pretty set against any discussion or pressuring day 1

Umm, i wasn't against discussion, i was against lynching/pressuring. As I feel its a pretty big risk to take for us today, knowing what we know. The risk on day one in other games is less significant so i felt we should be careful here. I'm still trying to figure out what was so bad about that.

[Oman]

Care to describe this plan?

I'd love to, Unfortunatly, it relies on nobody knowing it.


Oh and on the innocence wager. I thought it was a bad idea from the start.

. Then, leading on from there (IF you do) I was asking if you were willing to put any kind of deposit down on it

This part sucks. Forget the second part:

never thinking it'd be as bald as "if he's innocent you are if he's guilty you are",

The first part alone is enough to make me fume. Townies (in this context, including powerroles) shouldn't vote/not vote because it makes them look scummy or not. They should do what they want based on what alignment they think the person is. AND TOWN MAKE MISTAKES, all the time! So the only person who gains from your "innoncence deposit" is scum.

THAT

is what

I

find remarkable!

[shaft.ed]

So JDodge, how's it hanging?

[Adele]

Care to describe this plan?

I'd love to, Unfortunatly, it relies on nobody knowing it.

Wait... you have a master plan, but we don't get to know it? What, any of it? How do you know people won't do the wrong thing?
More to the point, why should I believe you? If this master plan is a reason for you not to be lynched today, then how do I know that you're not scum lying in desperate hope you can make something plausible up tomorrow (doesn't actually have to work if you're not submitting it to public scrutiny, you can just say "whoops! didn't notice that flaw in the plan") or at least assist your co-scum with your skill tonight?

Oh and on the innocence wager. I thought it was a bad idea from the start.

. Then, leading on from there (IF you do) I was asking if you were willing to put any kind of deposit down on it

This part sucks. Forget the second part:

never thinking it'd be as bald as "if he's innocent you are if he's guilty you are",

The first part alone is enough to make me fume. Townies (in this context, including powerroles) shouldn't vote/not vote because it makes them look scummy or not. They should do what they want based on what alignment they think the person is. AND TOWN MAKE MISTAKES, all the time! So the only person who gains from your "innoncence deposit" is scum.

Oh joy, let's go there again. I assume you're willing to acknowledge that, if a scum can get away with it, he'd like to support wagons on townies to the hilt and derail wagons on co-scum? That, whether right or wrong, it's a simple fact that someone who's pushed all the wrong wagons is suspected as a result? That, therefore, any significant statement on any wagon might (or, more often than not, does) affect your position on peoples' scumdars? And that, as a result, attacking or supporting someone causes a relationship picture between the two of you in other peoples' minds - attacking or supporting someone

is

, to some extent, and among other things, a gamble on the innocence or guilt of that person?

Your constant attempts to make me seem scummy for even acknowledging that fact, let alone

considering

using it (

pardon me

for hoping to get some useful information from the testimony of others - including, if you're right and this little wager benefits scum, useful information on who'd want to take advantage), is one of the reasons I feel comfortable voting you.

[Thestatusquo]

Vote:Jdodge

Incidentally can we have him prodded, Seol?

[Adele]

TSQ, you've put JDodge on L-1

[Adele]

No, wait, you haven't, that's another game, sorry.

[Thestatusquo]

I was pretty sure I was the first vote on him.... >.>

[JDodge]

Damnit. I forgot this game entirely.

Sorry, I'll catch up soon.

[Seol]

Prod also sent on Yvonneseer.

[YvonneSeer]

Urgh, sorry I forgot about this game. I'll read up now.

[shaft.ed]

Care to describe this plan?

I'd love to, Unfortunatly, it relies on nobody knowing it.

Wait... you have a master plan, but we don't get to know it? What, any of it? How do you know people won't do the wrong thing?
More to the point, why should I believe you? If this master plan is a reason for you not to be lynched today, then how do I know that you're not scum lying in desperate hope you can make something plausible up tomorrow (doesn't actually have to work if you're not submitting it to public scrutiny, you can just say "whoops! didn't notice that flaw in the plan") or at least assist your co-scum with your skill tonight?

Agree with above sentiment. I will however attempt to figure out this master plan of Oman's, and if I do I will consider changing my vote. But I highly doubt it exists.

Also I'm paying attention to the CKD/Gorgon exchange but would like it to play out without interference. I will say it has a tinge of distancing as there is a lot of firey rhetoric with not so much substance.

[Oman]

If this master plan is a reason for you not to be lynched today

I never said that, stop putting words into my mouth.

attacking or supporting someone is, to some extent, and among other things, a gamble on the innocence or guilt of that person?

Why did it need to be said? If it ALWAYS happens, then why did you need to push it on to CKD? Why did you even mention it?

I will however attempt to figure out this master plan of Oman's, and if I do I will consider changing my vote. But I highly doubt it exists.

It does. And I don't expect too many people to trust me, after all, this game isn't about trust. If just enough do that we can take it to NL or, if something superscummy comes up, them, then I'll be able to help.

[The Fonz]

If this master plan is a reason for you not to be lynched today

I never said that, stop putting words into my mouth.

Then why mention it? If it working depends on no-one knowing what it is, and we're not supposed to use it as a reason not to lynch you, why mention it in the first place?

[Oman]

It was to explain my NL vote.

Not as an excuse to escpae a lynch.

[Adele]

If this master plan is a reason for you not to be lynched today

I never said that, stop putting words into my mouth.

Sorry for the ambiguity:
If this master plan is a reason for *no-one*, including you, to be lynched today, then how do I know you're not scum making this up to survive overnight?

[Oman]

Ah, well...you see, the reason I'm voting nolynch is that I can't pick a scum.

I'm embarassed, but my scumdar is borked.

[Thestatusquo]

TBH, I think there's a pretty decent chance that are scum are in the group of people who continually "completely forget about this game." then promise more content, and never give it. I'm looking hard at Jdodge and yavonseer right now.

[YvonneSeer]

I don't find anyone particularly scummy. My vote on Oman starts all the way back from the random stage but only because there is no one else that needs my vote more. I guess it's probably gonna be Oman or No Lynch for me.

Going by instinct however, I've a generally bad feeling about Adele. Can't really explain it, it's been like this since early D1.

[shaft.ed]

So reading TSQ and YvonneSeer's posts in rapid succession makes me particularly suspicious of YvonneSeer.

[YvonneSeer]

How so, shaft.ed?

[Adele]

I think he's referring to the fact that directly after TSQ says he suspects you for not contibuting sufficiently and not committing yourself to anything, you come in and appear to be deflecting straight onto me.

Going by instinct however, I've a generally bad feeling about Adele. Can't really explain it, it's been like this since early D1.

I have the same sometimes. However, while I can't explain it, I'm usually able to patch together a few quotes from that player that illustrate it. So, even if you can't justify exactly

why

my posts make you uncomfortable, could you give some examples that do?

[shaft.ed]

How so, shaft.ed?

Well TSQ makes a comment that the people who disappeared (namely you and JDodge) may be scum trying to hide (should say not likely in my limited experience, but possible). Then you state that your vote for Oman dates back to the random stage but you don't find him (specifically anyone) particularly scummy. This is reinforced by stating you'll probably only vote Oman or No Lynch, even though you presumably don't find him scummy. However, you contrast this with a bad feeling about Adele that you can't explain. This contrasts with your vote and not finding anyone scummy. And also looks like you're trying to look as though you are "scum hunting" even though you're contradicting yourself.


@Oman, I've racked my brain and I cannot think of any particular use of your power that would easily out scum tonight. I would suggest if you feel your lynch is unavoidable you divulge your plan as it may prevent the loss of a townie if that should be your alignment. I personally find you much scummier after that statement and The Fonz and Adele have already pointed out the inconsistencies. Seeing as how deadline is approaching, I think this "claim" might be due soon.

[Oman]

I have a sneaking suspicion, shaft.ed, that if I divulge my plan, I'll actually ruin it.

There is a way that could easily out scum, but doesn't really confirm a town. It has issues within it, which I will also explain tomorrow.

[Thestatusquo]

Um, Oman, no offense, but right now if I were you I'd be more concerned with making it to tomorrow than what you're going to a) Do tonight and b) Tell the town tomorrow.