Open 54 - Basic 12 Player (over) before 529

[Patrick]

I should probably let people know that I'm on very limited access this weekend; chess tournament and guest staying round. When I get on, it's usually just to do routine stuff. I'll attend to this game on monday.

[Ether]

1 Andycyca (IH)

7 Unvote (Andycyca, Bookitty, Crub, Glork, Patrick, Shanba, Thestatusquo)

8 alive; 5 to lynch.

I prodded Patrick and he took my top of the page.

[Shanba]

OK, I've reread the game. It occured to me to look to see who could have posted but didn't at the deadlines. The first deadline, the only uncleared/living players who posted were Patrick and Andy. It's certainly possible that if no one else was posting, the scum might not try to avoid the thread and instead try and draw points for being active. Because I like Andy/Patrick as a scumpair right now, especially re-reading this:

@Patrick: I mean that Shanba accuses you of jumping wagons as soon as they start, but I don't think you're scum, so a nice possibility could be that Shanba is trying to pull off a framejob by "Distancing" with you. More when I get home

It's so weird.He thinks I'm fake distancing with Patrick? Huh? It's like, he's trying to lynch me but trying to do it so that it doesn't cast suspicion on Patrick. It's also such a convoluted explanation for my actions.

Also sticking out to me is his poking of Crub without ever really attacking him. There's some of this from Crub to Andy too, though I note that Crub also lists Andy as getting town points. I'm not sure how much guts Crub has as scum, but the link is stronger Andy<-Crub than Crub<-Andy.

Anyway, on to the day 2 deadline:
Three people posted, Glork wank and Boo. Sikario gets replaced overnight, and indeed had gone generally inactive by that point. IH is pro-town. That leaves Patrick, Andy and Crub. Hrm. It stretches the imagination that all three scum were deliberately avoiding, but eh, that is a remarkably nice fit. Patrick posted a votecount elsewhere that day, Crub also posted elsewhere and Andy posted too (though to be fair, they all only posted once elsewhere. Hrm.)

Individually, Andy reads somewhat scummy, Crub neutral and Patrick scummy. So I'm most convinced of Patrick, but Andy is the better link between the two. Hrm.

[Glork]

This is mostly for completeness's sake, but Shanz: What makes you think that avoiding the thread during deadline makes someone more likely to be scum?

[Andycyca]

Yay! Finally got back home from holidays. I'm rereading, will post more later tonight or tomorrow morning.

Also, school semester begins next monday for me. I ask for some patience during those first days of the term.

[Shanba]

This is mostly for completeness's sake, but Shanz: What makes you think that avoiding the thread during deadline makes someone more likely to be scum?

The deadline rules of the game. By lurking through the deadlines, the scum can force a mislynch much easier than jumping on and quicklynching and much less obviously too. It's a way of wagoning without wagoning.

I think my clarity levels are dropping.

[IH]

Holy frick. Some of my reread got cut off. I thought I even previewed it.

= ( I'm sad. Andy is still the play. Crub is a likely scumbuddy.

[Crub]

Holy frick. Some of my reread got cut off. I thought I even previewed it.

= ( I'm sad. Andy is still the play. Crub is a likely scumbuddy.

WTF did you get that from? I've voiced my suspicions of Andy since day 1. Whatever.

I'm in favour of a Patrick or Andy lynch.

[IH]

Andy for only keeping up on lurkers, and NOTHING else. I gather that it is more likely that you're scumbuddies the way he tried to deflect attention from you on day 2. You're both lurking almost as bad as I was.

I', mistaken when I said you are his scum buddy in my last post. It is a possibility.

I mourn the loss of over half of my day 2 read = (

Evidence strongly pointing to an Andy/Crub connection.

Actually I'm more worried about IH than Crub, as he has posted less in this game. I remember him saying he was ill...

Appleseed, what do you think of yesterday's lynch?

Strong evidence that Andy could be lurker hunting only.

Nice posting IH. I don't like you asking for a Glork lynch and then voting Wank, but that's just a feeling.
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176 makes a very decent point. I don't have anything else to add. Why you point it? Also, I noticed Crub's reason for voting Patrick. Crub, you mean you're following Glork's lead?
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Deadline is coming and judging from the latest posts from both IH and Crub I've decided to UNVOTE. Vote: Crub IH's been giving more of his thoughts and Crub votes "in the name of progress"
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More after some sleep

The biggest problem here is I can't decide if Andy is trying to get a lurker lynch, or switched to bussing (if he's scum)

It seems like on day 2 he avoided everything, and his one post that didn't involve accusing me, fosing me, or voting me (and nothing else) was the last post I quoted by him, completely ignoring the Ripley wagon, and doing exactly what he had been accusing me of (Since I did not coment on the JD wagon)

[Andycyca]

Ok, again. I didn't comment on ripley's wagon yesterday for the same reasons I didn't comment on JD's on D1: I never saw a real reason (other than "Glork's lead" and "Ripley is irritating"). Of course, I wouldn't defend him and nobody explicitly asked me for my opinion on that.

Also, I'm sure you're aware that I was poking you for lurking AND contributing less than other lurkers (I remember seeing several "Sorry, I'll reread" posts) And of course, I didn't knew you were the cop. Sometimes during this game we've had some times when 2 people start arguing with each other, which slows the overall analysis, and that's why I wanted to "lurkhunt" as you call it.
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Ok here's my suspicion list (not including IH and Glork).

D1 was full of Crub little-logic posts (remember 119, 132, 146, 168) but I see Crub sometimes plays lazy and sometimes plays content-fully. Don't like his playstyle, but he

might

be town.

Kitty: done little since replacement, but substantial. I don't like you calling Patrick an auto-town, though. Also town.

Patrick: I see him discussing reasons a lot, which makes him town to me. But looking at a Patrick-only thread I see him poking Crub several times, (not very strongly, though) more than any other player. I vaguely suspect distancing here.

Shanba: Talk about noncommittal. He last voted Patrick on D1 and his last stance was a FoS on me on D2. He expresses his opinions on everyone but I haven't seen him putting his vote where his mouth is.

Vote: Shanba

Sikario/TSQ: Sikario played very little as well, and I didn't like his playstyle, but that's only gut. I hope to hear more from TSQ yet.

[Thestatusquo]

Sikario/TSQ: Sikario played very little as well, and I didn't like his playstyle, but that's only gut. I hope to hear more from TSQ yet.

NO U.

[Glork]

Of course, I wouldn't defend him and nobody explicitly asked me for my opinion on that.

So when people don't explicitly ask for your opinion on something, it's okay to not volunteer information to the rest of the town?

How do you expect people to lynch scum if you're town and you do not impress upon them your thoughts and feelings?

[Thestatusquo]

By following you, obviously.

[Glork]

IH, this bothers me:

Oh shiz Crub posts a bandwagon vote for Rip "in the name of progress", and nothing else. I'm kind of certain this guys scum.

I could cite at least half a dozen times where I (as a protown player) wagon somebody just to move along with the day. Is there something specific that makes you think Crub is scum in doing this, or do you just not like the wagoning?

[Thestatusquo]

IH, this bothers me:

Oh shiz Crub posts a bandwagon vote for Rip "in the name of progress", and nothing else. I'm kind of certain this guys scum.

I could cite at least half a dozen times where I (as a protown player) wagon somebody just to move along with the day. Is there something specific that makes you think Crub is scum in doing this, or do you just not like the wagoning?

I think it's more that IH has become convinced that Crub is scum, and is looking for things to confirm that, rather than reading the game objectively. Thats a rut I get caught in sometimes.

[Glork]

That's what I'm thinking, too (and I do the same as well), but if there's something else there, I'd like to know what it is.

[Patrick]

Mmm. Some weird stuff has been posted this weekend.

OK, I've reread the game. It occured to me to look to see who could have posted but didn't at the deadlines. The first deadline, the only uncleared/living players who posted were Patrick and Andy. It's certainly possible that if no one else was posting, the scum might not try to avoid the thread and instead try and draw points for being active. Because I like Andy/Patrick as a scumpair right now, especially re-reading this:

I'm not too sure what to say about this. I assume that you're not actually saying that posting for the day 1 deadline makes someone more likely to be scum, so it seems like you're saying it because it fits the picture you're trying to create.

Anyway, on to the day 2 deadline:
Three people posted, Glork wank and Boo. Sikario gets replaced overnight, and indeed had gone generally inactive by that point. IH is pro-town. That leaves Patrick, Andy and Crub. Hrm. It stretches the imagination that all three scum were deliberately avoiding, but eh, that is a remarkably nice fit. Patrick posted a votecount elsewhere that day, Crub also posted elsewhere and Andy posted too (though to be fair, they all only posted once elsewhere. Hrm.)

I couldn't get online for most of that day due to internet problems. I did indeed manage to get a votecount in somewhere else, but the local area conection was trashed. That said, I'd made my stance clear and had my vote where I wanted it, which brings me to you Shanba. Your vote wasn't anywhere at deadline. I know you posted in the vacation thread stating you'd be away for a week, and the deadline was known to hit during that week. Yet you didn't feel the need to do anything with your vote, or make a last post before leaving. That's a mindset I'd expect more from scum than town. I think you'd be more likely to care as town about having your vote somewhere useful. Your hypocrisy here is delightful.

Andy's stance on Crub looks very shifty to me, and the vague attempt to connect me to Crub is odd. I'd disagree with his characterisation of my "poking Crub", I did want the guy lynched yesterday instead of Ripley.

Re, Crub's vote for Ripley in the name of progress, I think Glork's defence of it ignores some of the information. On a day 1 I could dig voting someone to bandwagon for progress or reactions, but this was a day 2 where a mislynch would put us in lylo, and Crub had been kind of defending Ripley all game. Crub claims to be a protown player who thought I was scum, but didn't actually try and convince people of it with any real case, or even ackowledge any defences. If he'd at least tried and failed it would make more sense to me, but as it is, he just opted out. Glork defended him with "Because you're [Patrick] getting lynched tomorrow" which doesn't make sense as an explanation for Crub, because he apparently didn't suspect Ripley, so he didn't suspect a Ripley/Patrick scumpair as Glork did. Also, if Crub wanted to wagon someone to two votes, I don't get why he didn't do it to Shanba (who he had expressed suspicion of) instead of Ripley who he had no problems with. That makes me wonder about Crub and Shanba as scumbuddies.

I could dig a Crub/Shanba/Andy scumgroup, although I think IH is overstating the connections a bit. Andy's vote for Crub closely after mine yesterday leaves me torn. Could be a nervous attempt to bus. Sikario/TSQ is kind of a wild card since I struggled to get anything much out of sikario and TSQ hasn't read the game yet. Looking forward to his reread and Bookitty's. For now, I'd like Bookitty to explain what tipped her to vote Ripley yesterday over Crub.

I prodded Patrick and he took my top of the page.

[IH]

I could cite at least half a dozen times where I (as a protown player) wagon somebody just to move along with the day. Is there something specific that makes you think Crub is scum in doing this, or do you just not like the wagoning?

What Patrick said.

Not to mention that that was one of Crub's only posts for day 2? Looked more like he was lurking and bandwagon hopping.

[Crub]

Andy's stance on Crub looks very shifty to me

Yeah it's almost like he want's to link me to someone he knows is confirmed scum.

[Glork]

Vote: Andy

Let's do this, bitches.

[Glork]

No wait, I changed my mind already.

Unvote

Before I vote, I want Patrick, Andy, Crub, and Shanba each to make an ordered list of players from "Scummiest" to "Most likely protown." I want to see something.

[Shanba]

Tricky. Do you want individually scummy or most scummy by association? Because the two give vastly different tables for me.

[Glork]

Hm. Write them up individually, then afterwards note all connections/interactions which you see between players.

[Shanba]

In which case:

Patrick
Andy
Bookitty/TSQ/Crub


Associations: well, obv IH and Glork are cleared. IH would be high on my suspect list apart from that, and Glork would be with the neutrals (crub boo tsq). As for the link, I think there's a strong Crub/Andy link and a weak Andy/Patrick link, making me think that Andy is more likely to be scum than he would be normally. Crub also moves up by association, and Patrick drops a little bit. So it then looks like this:
Andy/Patrick
Crub
Tsq/Bookitty

[IH]

Wat duz Glork thunk of Crubz zcumz noaw iz a gewd cwashun.

Ah wan toh noo