Mafia 73: NEGWLTWWWTKY - Abandoned!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Regardless. Where you from ? What's your sign ? TS help me out here

[Erg0]

I'd support a Peers or Sikario lynch, based on my theory about why Quagmire brought up his role PM at that time. Of the two I prefer to lynch Peers, because on a reread he seems pretty scummy throughout the game.

Hooray! A sensible person!

[Toaster Strudel]

TS, what happened to lynching hagdafas ?

He started to make sense and make himself useful,l so I got bored persecuting him.

[Toaster Strudel]

TS main point against him is that he may have read his role from the beginning, and truth be told she is pissed that he jerked us around for 40 pages and wants to eliminate him for the sake of the happy times.

Not quite true. Let me repeat:

My experience in this game is that people that give the town a hard time about claiming are almost always scum.

[...]he was careful not to link himself to other players beyond policy-voting me, following MoS and trying to intimidate Bookitty a little [...]

Look at how he wasted 30+ pages policy voting, didn't claim earlier at lynch -1, refused to answer questions even from his friend Yosarian, stubbornly refused to cooperate, try to find scum, and actually play the game in a manner that HELPS the town. He only recently switched his vote from me to Bookitty to intimidate her, in my opinion, because Bookitty was using her brain, and Quagmire wets his bed every time he has to deal with a player that is able to think.

Nine excellent reasons to lynch Quagmire:

(1) Jerked town around about role PM business.
(2) Needed to be at lynch minus 1 to allegedly read it.
(3) Has done absolutely nothing pro-town.
(4) Sabotaged all attempts for us to evaluate his alignment.
(5) His current strategy is to make sure he cannot be linked to any other player but one.
(6) Stubbornly policy voting a single player while denying it.
(7) Categorically refuses to answer questions - even from Yosarian who defended him earlier.
(8) This lynch will be informative of the alignment of the players that defended him, ie Yosarian, MoS and hasdfas.

(9) To completely refuse to involve oneself in the game in any capacity beyond a wholly useless policy vote, is thoroughly scummy.

That's the kind of thing a mafiosi might do in order not to compromise his buddies and leave no hints leading to them.

unvote, vote: Quagmire

- not for pressure, but for lynching.

I submit this quote as evidence that Quagmire is continuing to policy lynch or is at the very least completely blindsided:

Although I would like to add that I'm glad you're leaving. I hope you leave the site for good.

I submit this quote as evidence that Quagmire continues to refuse to participate, after alledgedly reading his role PM:

I'm not going to claim anytime soon. This conversation is worthless. Stop trying to "lead discussion" somewhere, because it's not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to claim anytime soon. This conversation is worthless. Stop trying to "lead discussion" somewhere, because it's not going to go anywhere. [...] Lynching me would be stupid. I'm on the town's side. Toaster Strudel is mafia, from what I've gathered. That's all that I'm going to say.

I feel like I should be saying something right now because the discussion is on me. However, I'll refrain unless people have any specific questions into my behavior becaues this argument is between Yos2 and TS.

I refuse to do anything that you request me to do [...]

Nothing else is worth talking about at the moment. Nobody else has come up with a convincing argument to sway me and nothing's made me change my mind about what I think. So, until then, I have nothing additional to say.[...]Otherwise, you're just going to hear me say, "I don't have anything to say," if everyone continues trying to badger me about my thoughts on every single person in the game.

Paradoxically, Quagmire berates schismatized for non-contribution:

The burden of proof lies with the person making the assertion.

yeah but in a game with so little proof is this still relevant?

Start contributing please

[Albert B. Rampage]

That doesn't add much, TS.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'd support a Peers or Sikario lynch, based on my theory about why Quagmire brought up his role PM at that time. Of the two I prefer to lynch Peers, because on a reread he seems pretty scummy throughout the game.

That doesn't add much, TS.

OK then, Let's do some math. Warning: I am bad at math.

If you think Quagmire brought up the role PM as a distraction from a buddy, and that buddy is either Peers or Sikario... you are assuming that Quagmire AND **one of** Sikario or Peers is scum.

Let's say for the sake of discussion, that Sikario and Peers appear equally scummy and were head to head when Quagmire started with the distraction.

(equation 1) Quagmire + Sikario + Peers = 2/3 scum
(equation 2) Sikario + Peers = 1/2 scum
(Solving for Quagmire) Quagmire = 1 scum

So if you want to test your theory, you're best to vote for Quagmire.

[Toaster Strudel]

I now declare Albert B. Rampage and Bookitty scumband and towife. You may now kiss the bride.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Erm, no. What if she's like 13 ? What if she isn't cute ?

What I am saying, is that in all probability Quagmire didn't read his role pm and still hasn't. Him contributing or not isn't really a scum-tell. Yes we would get rid of an anti-town player, but there are actual scummy players like Peers that are still alive.

[Peers]

So, TS thinks that ABR, Bookitty, Quagmire, and either myself or Sikario are scum? That's four... in a 19-person game... hrm. Sounds plausible.

[Erg0]

You don't think we could have four scum? Your average twelve player mini has three...

[Peers]

... I said it sounds plausible. Do you need a thesaurus, Erg0?

Personally, I think if there's only four scum, then we've got a huge number of vanilla townies. Maybe two power roles at most. I think it's more likely that there's five scum and four power roles. I've been in a six-scum 19-player game, but that was two mafias in a no-cross-kill game, so I don't think we've got that many. Four or five makes the most sense...

[Erg0]

Apparently my sarcasm detector is broken.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian, I'm trying to ascertain exactly why you are unwilling to vote Quagmire.

Well, I wouldn't say that I'm unwilling to vote for him; I already did say I will vote Quagmire if I have to in order to avoid a no-lynch. However, while the bandwagon on him makes sense, I just don't think he's especally likely to be scum. Most of the problems people have with him are things that, when Quagmire does them, are more null tells then anything else; Quagmire has a long habit of basically trolling the town on day 1's no matter what his alighment, I guess in order to get reactions or perhaps just because he's bored, and other then the role PM thing (which I think we can leave behind now) everything else is about par for the corse for him, IMHO. (shrug) Just like I don't really think it's scummy for TS to be stubborn, paranoid, and to bend facts to fit her pet theory, becasue I've seen her do all of those things too many times as town.

You'd stated earlier, explaining your defense of Panzer, that "Panzer made a bunch of posts that sounded logical to me, he was basically making more sense then I usually hear from him, and it gave me good vibes about him. (shrug) Nothing huge, but enough for a few pages into the game" but now you're saying that "he's been acting incredibly scummy all game".

Well, take a look at what Panzer did in December. First, he voted Quagmire back on december 3rd; fine, whatever. Then there were 4 little one-liner posts of little value at all; 2 swere complete spam, a 3rd suggested a TS/Jorden scum team but gave no logic for it, and then another spam post. Then, on December 14th, more then a month into this game, he voted Albert in what looks like a joke vote (the reason he gave was "He confessed and it's in BLUE! "). Then a few more one liners, where he randomally accused Schism of being scum but didn't give a reason and a couple of spam posts, then he turned around and voted MOS, giving no reason other then "I'm with K-scope", even though K-scope's reason made absolutly no sense. Then he lurked for a week, and then bizzarly said "I'm glad I have my vote on Quag already" even though he didn't, and has lurked since then.

There is absolutly nothing in the month of December that Panzer did that makes me think he's trying to help the town at all. It was all spam and active lurking, punctuated with a bit of unreasoned and illogical bandwagon hopping and a joke vote more then a month into the game, and then he just stopped posting all together.

The point of my post 1003 is that the timing of Quagmire's statement doesn't make any sense unless he was deliberately trying to distract from something. Do you agree or disagree with that analysis? Why would town bring up such a controversial subject while under no real pressure, and with no real provocation, in your view?

That is a good question; like you said in 1003, there's no real gain from it if he's scum or if he's town. (shrug) He probably didn't realize quite what the reaction would be, or else he was trolling the town again.

[Bookitty]

The quote that's currently troubling me is this, Yosarian:

Sorry, but...are you stupid?

Why in the world would I do that if I'm scum

, knowing that I'll be getting the blunt of all of the negative attention in the world? If I was down, why would I try to distract the town from anything?

I had been more or less default-assuming, previous to this, that Quagmire hadn't read his role PM. Yet right there he says, "Why in the world would I do that if I'm scum", which is supposedly information he wouldn't have had yet when he did it. So why word it like that? The quote above seems to try to say (paraphrased) "I knew I was not scum when I claimed that I didn't know my alignment." Which means something there is a lie.

Peers: I do not think TS was seriously accusing Ramp or myself of being scum.

[Toaster Strudel]

So, TS thinks that ABR, Bookitty, Quagmire, and either myself or Sikario are scum? That's four... in a 19-person game... hrm. Sounds plausible.

You must be talking about another game... because this is my

Blanket of Suspicion

Quagmire, YagamiLight, MoS, Peers, Yosarian2, and hasdagas [/quote], but again I'm less sure about hasdagas now.

[Toaster Strudel]

Personally, I think if there's only four scum, then we've got a huge number of vanilla townies. Maybe two power roles at most. I think it's more likely that there's five scum and four power roles. I've been in a six-scum 19-player game, but that was two mafias in a no-cross-kill game, so I don't think we've got that many. Four or five makes the most sense...

Since you're in a mind to speculate, why do you think the name of the game is NEGWLTWWWTKY?

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm glad I have my vote on quag already.

Panzer did post did gem, however, he was voting for MoS at the time.

I did take a look at his contribution in two other games that are ongoing, and he does seem a bit more talkative, and marginally more useful there than he is here.

Mod Prod: Panzerjager

[zu_Faul]

I'm up to page 36, gonna post tomorrow, maybe tonight. Need to see someone sick now.

[Quagmire]

Bookitty, you're reaching almost as much as TS does.

Sorry, but...are you stupid? Why in the world would I do that if I'm scum, knowing that I'll be getting the blunt of all of the negative attention in the world? If I was down, why would I try to distract the town from anything?

And he has a point. But that point is also valid if he's town. Why on earth would town want to distract the rest of the town with a long discussion about the role-pm controversy? Quagmire can't pretend that he didn't know this was a controversial topic, that it would derail the current wagons, and that it would divert suspicion from people who were already being considered as possible lynches at that time.

No, I didn't. I thought it was a funny comment because I thought it was assumed that I

never

read my role PM in

any

of my games, so I didn't think twice about doing it or saying something about it. People just jumped on me like flies on horse shit, and after that, it "derailed" the town, so it's not like I instigated anything anyway.

So the question becomes, why would a neutral Quagmire want to get "the blunt of all of the negative attention in the world?" If he truly had not read his role PM, why would he choose to announce it (and he did CHOOSE to do so. No one asked him) and distract town with it, when it appeared we were nearing a lynch?

I did it casually and without thinking that it would cause a big hubbub (or one at all, for that matter). Simple as that.

I think it's likely Quagmire is scum. I think that one of his scumbuddies was under pressure, and that Quagmire is counting on our thinking "Oh, Quag always plays like this" to excuse his anti-town behaviour and avoid being lynched himself. So if Quagmire comes up scum, as I think likely, I'm going to be taking a hard look at the people under pressure when he made his original non-reading claim.

That's a good argument. The only thing that I can defend that with is a, "no, that's not true," and try and get you to understand that I had assumed that people either already knew I didn't read my role or wouldn't give two shits about it either way when I said that I didn't read my role.

Note that it was a casual and lackadasical reference, and you're talking as if I rode through the town on a horse and yelled that the british were coming.

[Quagmire]

My experience in this game is that people that give the town a hard time about claiming are almost always scum.

I've had the opposite experience in games where the flavor of the theme does not play a huge role, so I count that as nothing.

[...]he was careful not to link himself to other players beyond policy-voting me, following MoS and trying to intimidate Bookitty a little [...]

I wasn't "careful" to "link myself" to anyone or anything else. I just say what I think with total disregard for what anyone else is saying. That's because I'm on the town's side and I don't need to pay any attention to things like that.
And my vote for Bookitty wasn't "pressure." It was me legitimately thinking that she's mafia. Read the post again. I'm sure your stubborn screen of bullshit won't prevent you from seeing my side..
Oh wait.

Look at how he wasted 30+ pages policy voting, didn't claim earlier at lynch -1, refused to answer questions even from his friend Yosarian, stubbornly refused to cooperate, try to find scum, and actually play the game in a manner that HELPS the town. He only recently switched his vote from me to Bookitty to intimidate her, in my opinion, because Bookitty was using her brain, and Quagmire wets his bed every time he has to deal with a player that is able to think.

30+ pages is wrong and not factual; I didn't claim because I didn't need to at that point (because people explicitly stated that they'd unvote me when I read my role PM, which I did); "stubbornly refusing to cooperate" with people like you isn't a bad thing and I didn't feel the need to answer Yosarian's (or anyone else's, for that matter) questions; I've tried my best in finding scum given the resources allocated, considering that I'm pretty confident that Bookitty is scum; and you really need to take a look in the mirror sometime.

Nine excellent reasons to lynch Quagmire:

(1) Jerked town around about role PM business.

Not a good reason to lynch. I do this in every game I play, sans newbie games.

(2) Needed to be at lynch minus 1 to allegedly read it.

Not a good reason to lynch either. I'd much rather live than not, and if that means reading my role PM, then so be it.

(3) Has done absolutely nothing pro-town.

Wrong, you stuboorn, misguided little fool.

(4) Sabotaged all attempts for us to evaluate his alignment.

No. I don't know where this is coming from, or what you have behind it.

(5) His current strategy is to make sure he cannot be linked to any other player but one.

No, my current "strategy" is to find scum. I'm also agreeing on the Panzer stuff.

(6) Stubbornly policy voting a single player while denying it.

It was a policy vote, and then a real vote. Get over it. I think you're scummy too. As MoS said,

Her continual mention of it merely shows that she wishes to introduce further irrationality into the thread and obfuscate the case against her with a screen of emotional bullshit.

(7) Categorically refuses to answer questions - even from Yosarian who defended him earlier.

Yeah, which should tell you I only talk when I want to and I don't want to answer stupid questions that other people bring up just so they can "evaluate my alignment," or whatever. You can do that in other ways. If I have something to say about something, I'll say it.

(8) This lynch will be informative of the alignment of the players that defended him, ie Yosarian, MoS and hasdfas.

No, it won't. It won't tell you anything.

(9) To completely refuse to involve oneself in the game in any capacity beyond a wholly useless policy vote, is thoroughly scummy.

That's the kind of thing a mafiosi might do in order not to compromise his buddies and leave no hints leading to them.

I'm not even going to respond to this one. It's just too retarded and if you can't see why that's retarded, well, then I just have no time for you.

I submit this quote as evidence that Quagmire is continuing to policy lynch or is at the very least completely blindsided:

Although I would like to add that I'm glad you're leaving. I hope you leave the site for good.

I'm not even voting for you anymore, and just because I hate you doesn't mean I'm going to policy vote you anywhere. I despise quite a few people on the site; don't think I'm singling you out.

I submit this quote as evidence that Quagmire continues to refuse to participate, after alledgedly reading his role PM:

I'm not going to claim anytime soon. This conversation is worthless. Stop trying to "lead discussion" somewhere, because it's not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to claim anytime soon. This conversation is worthless. Stop trying to "lead discussion" somewhere, because it's not going to go anywhere. [...] Lynching me would be stupid. I'm on the town's side. Toaster Strudel is mafia, from what I've gathered. That's all that I'm going to say.

I feel like I should be saying something right now because the discussion is on me. However, I'll refrain unless people have any specific questions into my behavior becaues this argument is between Yos2 and TS.

These quotes are either stupidly represented (the former) or not evidence at all (the latter).

I refuse to do anything that you request me to do [...]

Nothing else is worth talking about at the moment. Nobody else has come up with a convincing argument to sway me and nothing's made me change my mind about what I think. So, until then, I have nothing additional to say.[...]Otherwise, you're just going to hear me say, "I don't have anything to say," if everyone continues trying to badger me about my thoughts on every single person in the game.

Neither of these two are evidence that I'm not playing the game. In fact, the latter is evidence that I am playing the game, because it says that I don't need to talk until I have something to say. Which, if you'll note, I do talk. I do have things to say.

[Toaster Strudel]

Anybody got a fly swatter? I hear sum'thin' abuzzin'

[Setael]

Still reading the thread (sorry I fell behind). I'm at p. 24 and if no one has requested this yet, I'd like Quagmire to link a game in which he did not look at his role pm on day 1 and ended up being town.

[PJ.]

I was the first on quag's wagon and am voting quag

[PJ.]

wait I unvote for MoS for some random reason. I'm very lost in this game.

[Toaster Strudel]

Vote Count:

6: Quagmire

(Elmo, Battle Mage, TS, JordanA24, ABR, Bookitty)

3: Kscope

(Zu_Faul, Yosarian2, schismatized)

3: Peers

(YagamiLight, Erg0, hasdgfas)

2: MoS

(Kscope, Panzerjager)

1: Toaster Strudel

(MoS)

1: hasdgfas

(Peers)

1: Setael

(Sir Tornado)

1: ABR

(Setael)

1: Bookitty

(Quagmire)[/b]

Panzer, that was the last votecount.

You're not the first on Quag's wagon.