Mini 1875: Pine's Death Trap Post Game - Town win!
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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I have kept a lid of my emotion this game (in-thread). Gerry shared the same frustrations and shock as me (but heightened as he was the direct recipient of the failed gambit, plus he was the Town Cop - I felt we were in the same boat - but obviously it would be ridiculous to expect me to react as defensive as Gerry as I was a neutral observer). I think hard defending your t/reads on D1 is short-sighted / tactically naive. RC and Gerry were t/reads but not town confirmed. It's only since N1 I have put my foot down very firmly on people I don't want lynched.
I will share with you what I felt about the Gerry lynch after the game. I did ask to replace out after N1 but (something happened). I am now happy to play.-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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D1 was only going one way at that point. Many people had given their opinion on the RC v gerry claim/reaction. This was undoubtedly the prime info lynch for D1 (I would be proved right later). Many of my reads were formed from their very interactions, and laid the foundations to D2 (in that essence his lynch was a good thing). However, I did not expect gerry to flipIn post 2394, nancy wrote:But that's not even what your ISO of that period looks like. I mean you're commenting on dogs and shit. Seriously, do you care if gerry dies here? Doesn't seem like it to me.Town Cop. Where I'm from, a player must always defend themselves and roleclaim before a hammer. However, your slot's selfish anti-town play goaded Vifam to quickhammer gerry and the rest is history.-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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I'd be interested to hear more about this. Maybe post-game?In post 2400, Keyser Söze wrote:I think hard defending your t/reads on D1 is short-sighted / tactically naive.
Alright, thanks for explaining that. And yeah, I'm not at all impressed with Transcend goading Vifam into hammering. We're on the same page, I think.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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Keyser Söze Jack of All Trades
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Sneak preview:In post 2402, nancy wrote:
I'd be interested to hear more about this. Maybe post-game?In post 2400, Keyser Söze wrote:I think hard defending your t/reads on D1 is short-sighted / tactically naive.
- without a flip or investigation, I am in no position to hard defend a player based on pure reads
- I used to do this in my early games: I would scum read players for attacking my strong town reads on D1 (sometimes some of those strong town reads are scum)
- I learnt to put aside my confirmation bias on D1
- D1 is all about information, you're unlikely to figure out the scum-team, allow pressure from other players on your t/reads but be sure to state your stance on it (don't lurk and don't keep anything in)
- I must not hard defend my t/reads on D1 just because of scum-associations I think are real-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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Thanks. Great food for thought.
I'm looking at Akarin and the two things that pinged me at the time and ping me still about the slot are the argument with JJD and the vote on JJD right after I came in with that case on RC, slightly weirdish how that happened. I dunno if I'm just dumb for thinking this is AI or what.
Going to sleep if I can manage.
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?-
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nancy Jack of All Trades
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ThinkBig Jack of All Trades
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^^TownIn post 2405, nancy wrote:Y'all should probably just lynch me btw cause I guarantee I will fuck up LyLo.I have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.-
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ThinkBig Jack of All Trades
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Using this to form a town bloc and list off some of claims (these are for my notes)In post 2365, Fro99er wrote:Sheep and MBG are scum
MBG claimed jailkeeper
RC claimed BP
Gerry was lynched as cop D1
Rauth is backup cop who has an innocent on RC
Jar Jar got lynched D2 as scum goon
I'm VT, Sheep is VT, Nancy is VT. Might be a couple other VTs i'm missing.
I strongly think Uzi is town.
Rautherdir - Universal backup
RadiantCowbells - Bulletproof. Confirmed innocent by cop
mattblackguy - Jailkeeper
Keyser Söze
Fro99er
nancy
Grendel
ThinkBig
Lil Uzi Vert
Cooperative Sheep
I am going through the vote count for a VCA. For now, I'm treating rauth and MBG as confirmed town. I have a fairly strong TR on KS and Fro99er. I'm 75% confident that nancy is town (see above). I'm now looking through the rest of the players.I have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.-
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Rautherdir he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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ThinkBig Jack of All Trades
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Ah sorry. Thanks for the correction.In post 2408, Rautherdir wrote:What? No, I'm a backup cop, not Universal BackupI have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.-
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Cooperative Sheep Goon
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@Frog - I don't think you understand my meta as much as you think you do, at the very least you have zero evidence that I don't do the so-called lack of pressure as town (also it was a BS case and there was no lack of follow up, so there's that )
Also, my "placating" of you might be more along the lines of me already openly stating I dislike you in other games (and wishing you had been honest to your blacklist claim) - so lack of interaction kinda makes sense.
@Grendel - I didn't think it was town because I find town to be more confused, and less suddenly changing of a read when called on it not making sense. Basically, I didn't believe you were so confused as to say A when you meant B, when B isn't exactly a complicated concept and has nothing to do with A. I think A was you claptrapping and discrediting me.-
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Lil Uzi Vert Survivor
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Yes.In post 2027, nancy wrote:So LUV you think it's {mbg, Sheep}?
I'm not buying this. Gambling on getting a successful investigation result would've been a lot more valuable because it narrows down the lynch pool either way. The only reason to jail someone is to prevent a kill or to protect a town read who you strongly believe isn't a PR and has really good deduction skills.In post 2051, mattblackguy wrote:Whatever, I'll just claim. I'm town Jailkeeper. I jailed Rauth obviously. Now can we lynch scum today?-
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Lil Uzi Vert Survivor
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I don't buy this at all either. Not after how D1 ended and the way he acted during the Gerry wagon. You also came in suspecting him for not having voted out of RVS at the start of D2.In post 2088, mattblackguy wrote:
Didn't seem that way when you were sheeping everything RC did.In post 2082, nancy wrote:I wasn't going to vote you. Anyway please answer Fro99er's questions.
I jailed Keyser night 1, because I felt like he had a decent chance to be killed, and would be a decent person to keep alive.-
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Lil Uzi Vert Survivor
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What? Where were trying to go with this?In post 2184, RadiantCowbells wrote:Basically anyone could be.-
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Lil Uzi Vert Survivor
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Why do you feel mass claiming is our best course to victory? We are still in good shape and I find it hard to believe if you're town that you don't see that.In post 2220, Cooperative Sheep wrote:@Frogger - you have as your lynch pool Matt --> me if Matt flips scum, but Matt --> Keyser if Matt flips town. How does town Matt make me more town?
@Nancy - what goalposts did I move in scumreading you? That's BS.
@Keyser - literally almosthalf the posts I make include me stating my top scumspects, and other players are complaining that I'm vote parking - I think it is super clear who i want lynched at any given moment.
I think we should mass claim, quite frankly. I think this somuch I'm just going to start popcorning, and to hell with anyone who disagrees.
Claim: VT
Popcorn - Nancy
Unless anyone seriously has an issue with this considering the claims on the table, let's lock in.
I understand Frogg's issue with Matt's stated actions, but can see how Matt could do what he said he did as town - it's basically my reason the the abrupt massclaim demand, if we get no other PR claims then I think Matt is actually not a lynch I support today, if we get even one other then I'd vote park him until he was lynched.
I agree with whoever said Nancy felt like she was egging on Frogger/RC - the only thing I've liked about her slot posting is pointing out how the team du jour of me, Matt, Jar requires bad play - this is something I (duh) agree with, but I actually don't think there's a lot of evidence to support the stance, so find it iffy she's advancing it as an idea.
I agree with the case for Akarin town. I wouldn't help that lynch at all. I won't help lynch Frogg, that is dumb. I have my lynch pool as Grendel, LUV, and Nancy in no particular order I can describe.-
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Lil Uzi Vert Survivor
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Well mainly becasue not only do I like listening and working with strong town reads of mine, I haven't gotten around to properly reevaluating your slot yet. I feel we're close but I want to be sure.In post 2350, Grendel wrote:
This bothers me a lot b/c I thought for sure that when Frogger said that his lynch would clear LUV that the two had some funky role like Oracle that would clear another player post death. Or if not that they were neighbors.In post 817, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Real.In post 698, Vifam wrote:Im not a PR I just know there is an angel watching over me that wont let me be mislynched today
It just seems like somebody would make a post like this to validate another player's claim later for roles that involve multiple ppl.
Any case I've been itching over that since the mutual vt claim, so I decided to bring it up.
nancy..In post 2384, nancy wrote:Keyser LUV is clearly never going to post anything, let's just kill him.-
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Lil Uzi Vert Survivor
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Rauth and RC for sure. Not MBG.In post 2407, ThinkBig wrote:
Using this to form a town bloc and list off some of claims (these are for my notes)In post 2365, Fro99er wrote:Sheep and MBG are scum
MBG claimed jailkeeper
RC claimed BP
Gerry was lynched as cop D1
Rauth is backup cop who has an innocent on RC
Jar Jar got lynched D2 as scum goon
I'm VT, Sheep is VT, Nancy is VT. Might be a couple other VTs i'm missing.
I strongly think Uzi is town.
Rautherdir - Universal backup
RadiantCowbells - Bulletproof. Confirmed innocent by cop
mattblackguy - Jailkeeper
Keyser Söze
Fro99er
nancy
Grendel
ThinkBig
Lil Uzi Vert
Cooperative Sheep
I am going through the vote count for a VCA. For now, I'm treating rauth and MBG as confirmed town. I have a fairly strong TR on KS and Fro99er. I'm 75% confident that nancy is town (see above). I'm now looking through the rest of the players.
I'm not a fan of a town block with two scum still left, as they can easily slip and blend in.-
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Fro99er Survivor
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Fro99er Survivor
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In post 1816, Fro99er wrote:Spoiler: VCA with only confirmed when Frog flips town
Vote Count 2.7 above shows that Uzi was the counterwagon to JarJar, and if we assume Keyser is town (I think a reasonable assumption) then MBG is scum and Uzi is town. If MBG is scum, then my post 1805 shows Grendel is 100% town and my post 1815 shows Keyser is 100% town (which fits with the assumption).
The alternative is that Keyser is scum if Matt flips town, and that would make sense given how they voted together D1 (and keyser voted matt), and then voted against each other D2, but ultimately ended up on the same wagon in Vote Count 2.7. They basically have to be opposite teams, so if Matt flips town it's almost guaranteed Keyser is scum.
But we can come to that game state later. First let's work with Matt!scum -- then Keyser, Uzi, and Grendel are town. So now I will redo the VCA with those colored in...
Spoiler: VCA with Uzi, Keyser, and Grendel as town and MBG as scum
Then it comes down to Akarin, Nancy, and Sheep. If we let Akarin be town for post 1806, then it comes down to Nancy and Sheep. Thankfully they cross vote each other in Vote Count 2.1 (when Nancy is still Transcend). It's more likely Nancy is town, because they voted JarJar and Sheep, plus also voting Matt between Vote Count 1.1 and 1.2, meaning they'd have voted for all three scum, although the Nancy/Transcend combo also voted four town in myself/Vifam, Rauth, RC, and Gerry. But that looks more like lost town. Sheep vote parked both days...D1 on Grendel (town) and D2 on Transcend/Nancy. Scum tend to have static reads, and the fact that Sheep didn't really case Grendel or Transcend (ok, he cased Transcend but it was REALLY weak) makes him more likely scum than Transcend/Nancy.
So tl;dr when I die it goes like this (in order):
lynch MBG...- if MBG scum then Sheep -> Nancy -> Akarin is the order for the partner to JJD/MBG. Uzi, Grendel, Keyser are town in this scenario.
- if MBG town then Keyser -> ??? -> ??? ... but Uzi is still town in this scenario. I honestly can't narrow down who Keyser's partner would be in this scenario because he's parked on MBG and Uzi D2, and MBG and Grendel D1, and nobody has voted him in any of these Vote Counts.
- In a really weird scenario where both MBG and Keyser are town, then 2.7 means Nancy was the counterwagon to scum JarJar, so Sheep is confscum here with either Akarin or Grendel.
- Finally, there's some fucked up gamestate where RC and Rauth are both scum with JJD, but I really don't want to think about that. But RC does have that cunning manipulator banner...
Here's VCA for you TB"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend-
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ThinkBig Jack of All Trades
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ThinkBig Jack of All Trades
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From VCA, I believe he could be town. He was the counter wagon to jar jar, who flipped scum. Scum may have tried to derail JarJar's lynch by moving it to LUVIn post 2417, Fro99er wrote:Uzi is still townI have officially retired this account. My new account is Virtuoso.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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3 votes.In post 2420, ThinkBig wrote:
From VCA, I believe he could be town. He was the counter wagon to jar jar, who flipped scum. Scum may have tried to derail JarJar's lynch by moving it to LUVIn post 2417, Fro99er wrote:Uzi is still town
Myself, Keyser, and MattBlack. JJD himself was not even on LUV.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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3 votes.In post 2420, ThinkBig wrote:
From VCA, I believe he could be town. He was the counter wagon to jar jar, who flipped scum. Scum may have tried to derail JarJar's lynch by moving it to LUVIn post 2417, Fro99er wrote:Uzi is still town
Myself, Keyser, and MattBlack. JJD himself was not even on LUV.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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3 votes.In post 2420, ThinkBig wrote:
From VCA, I believe he could be town. He was the counter wagon to jar jar, who flipped scum. Scum may have tried to derail JarJar's lynch by moving it to LUVIn post 2417, Fro99er wrote:Uzi is still town
Myself, Keyser, and MattBlack. JJD himself was not even on LUV.2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.-
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RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
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