Mafia 72: Peril in Panama - Game over!

[Porochaz]

His last one I meant

[Patrick]

Final Votecount

Battle Mage (1) -- Gage
Bookitty (6) -- Albert B. Rampage, Dragon Phoenix, pete d, volkan, Lowell, Mastermind of Sin
Unright (1) -- Setael
Bookitty (1) -- pete d
Lowell (1) -- Porochaz

Not Voting: Unright, Battle Mage, Streeflo, curiouskarmadog
14 alive, 8 to lynch. 5 to lynch at deadline.
-----------------------------

Six people is enough to lynch someone at deadline, and you guys have chosen Bookitty. Poor Bookitty. You all feel very sorry looking at her hanging there dead, at least until you've all taken a look at her home and her possessions, which would suggest that she doesn't deserve to be mourned for. It's not every day that you kill the leader of the local mafia, so you can all feel very proud of yourselves.

Bookitty - Mafia Godfather - lynched day 1

It is now night 1, with a 72 hour deadline. Send all nightchoices to me. I can't lock the thread because I still don't have mod powers.

[Patrick]

So yeah, nobody post obviously, since it's night. It's punishable by modkills

[Patrick]

farside22 replaces Unright.

[Patrick]

Shanba replaces Gage.

[Patrick]

You all wake up for day 2 in your Panamarian Village, to find that.... nobody has died. Yup. 13 of you still alive. That means that 7 votes will be needed to lynch someone. Play nice!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah I knew this would happen. Don't fuck with Rampage.

[Setael]

I tip my hat to ABR and concede that I was wrong about Bookitty. And for this post:

shoot I forgot about that... however I am still not discounting the theory that gage panicked when under suspicion and claimed mason and ABR not wanting his scumpartner lynched needed to claim mason as well... however I am not sure as of yet... so Im downgrading unvote and fos ABR and then vote Lowell for his post.

vote: porochaz

[Albert B. Rampage]

Leave him alone. Porochaz is town.

Vote: Setael

[Setael]

You're wrong about me, so I'm willing to bet you're wrong about him as well.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Call it overconfidence if that makes you feel better. I call it trusting my gut, and the bursting folder of evidence that you are scum.

[Shanba]

You're wrong about me, so I'm willing to bet you're wrong about him as well.

Just cause I feel like tagteaming here, but how do your last post and this post make any sense taken together?

[Setael]

Do you really think because he was right about Bookitty I should assume he'll be right with the rest of his hunches? I happen to know he's wrong about me, so where is the logic in trusting his gut read on Porochaz? I think Porochaz is scum and the post I quoted was super scummy. ABR disagreeing is not going to influence that just because he was right about Bookitty.

Frankly, ABR is crazy and blind if he thinks my play is conducive to being one of Boo's scum buddies. If I was I'd have either been safely on that wagon, or at least laying low. Call WIFOM all you want, it doesn't make sense for scum to blatantly defend and refuse to join the wagon of a scum buddy who's going down in flames. I did not think Boo was scum. I did not think the wagon was for decent reasons, and I thought it was crazy that ABR wanted her hammered before she could claim. I expected her to come up town so I could rub it in ABR's face, but no. I am the one who was wrong. It is, however, ridiculous of him to think I'm scum for not knowing her alignment and for thinking her wagon was weak. It may be telling though, to see who agrees with him.

[farside22]

First off hi everyone. I did my read through about a day ago so here we go.

@Setael

Why did you vote for porochaz. He didn't vote for bookitty either. His vote on ABR and unvote? I think he isn't paying attention, but I'm not sure what your case is against him.
I agree with Setael as a general rule scum will jump vote against their partners and join the bandwagon. However this was vote quick and dirty. I think scum may have wanted to stay away in the hopes someone else will be lynched before the deadline and push votes at other people.
My main suspect is CDK. I didn't care for his pressure vote on BooKitty and then unvotes because he doesn't trust Lowell. I found it more an odd play then Setael. However Satael you are not in the clear.

vote: curiouskarmadog

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think Porochaz is scum and the post I quoted was super scummy.

Wrong. That post is not scummy at all. The way you defended Bookitty was sublimely scummy, though. I am certain you are scum. I will see you lynched before this game is over.

Truth be told though, Shanba actually disagrees with me on your case. We have both agreed on CKD being scummy, though. I see him as the second scummiest player after yourself, Set.

FoS: CKD

[Porochaz]

ok, so I was wrong about my theory... I dont really see how the quoted bit was scummy and you havent provided any other reason, it seems to me that you are just looking for someone easy to latch onto who didnt think bookie was scum and I think your trying to make a case against me appear out of very little to take away the fact that you didnt vote her either...

vote setael

[Albert B. Rampage]

Personally, I want CKD and Setael to go after each other - right...about...now.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If you've missed the past couple pages, here's what happened:

I dropped an extremely flashy but familiarly convincing case on Bookitty on post 464, and followed with a vote.

DP bandwagons kitty. Karma ignores the kitty case. I pressure him into paying attention to it. He replies with this scummy bastard:

I guess I dont understand why mafia would leave a doctor alive. Now, we could all go into a long discussion about this but I would rather not give the mafia any more reason to act, or not to act.

In reference to Bookitty,

I agree with her theory, but I dont think PeteD was scummy for saying it. That said, I think what Pete D didnt say could be viewed as scummy.

I said I didnt understand why people are still voting the claim doc...instead of answering me (like you blatantly did ABR) he came back with this response:

"Why are you assuming that mafia will automatically take him out?" "With statements like this, why would mafia get rid of BM if he was a doc?"

this doesnt sounds like someone who thinks BM is scum. So again, I dont understand the vote or the prespective.

I might have voted Pete D, but Bookkitty's response was..strange...I think Pete D response was scummy for different reasons,

and I dont understand why she thinks it was scummy and it seemed forced...

so I am at a loss.

thoughts?

Setael replaces in, but either isn't up to speed or ignores the kitty case. Either way, Volkan comes in and sends an FoS kitty's way. Even though my case has gained momentum by now, Setael ignores it completely, re-directs focus on Unright, and mentions this in passing:

I'm leaning town on Bookitty.

I got several protown reads from Nekka and don't think his part in distracting from the Unright wagon was intentional. Looks more like he thought Gage was making newbie errors rather than scum coaching scum. Bookitty's play has felt town, and the arguments against her right now are pretty weak.

She completely obfuscates the kitty case and attempts to dismiss it on the grounds that the arguments are weak, without actually going into any of them. Flabbergasted by her indifferent act, I launch this:

Bookitty is pretty scummy-looking right now. Maybe you could offer more of a defense instead of sweeping it under the rug, Setael ?

After some more confusion, she responds:

Why should I offer a defense of Bookitty? I'd much rather find scum and let Bookitty defend herself.

By the way, ABR what are your current thoughts on Unright? If you no longer think he's scum, what changed your mind? You had good reasons to vote him once upon a time. Are they no longer valid?

Again, she tries to change the subject. Not missing a beat, I reply

Right, I voted him in my 5th post and unvoted him on the 7th. Bookitty is extremely scummy though:

before deposing three mega posts on why we should immediately lynch kitty. Kitty has taken the town's spotlight by now, IMO. Insistently, Setael presses on in her refusal to address the matter:

*if we say we will lynch BM tomorrow, the scum won't NK him, which is an very relevant point that the mafia would think of regardless of whether we say it or not

Agreed. I don't think we should lynch BM tomorrow, either, but that doesn't mean the entire town will agree with me. So scum don't know for sure if we'll lynch BM tomorrow or not since we don't even know yet.

I don't think Bookitty is the lynch for today. I'd much rather lynch anyone on my scum list.

Again avoiding to reply to my points. Unflinchingly, amidst a verbal battle with kitty, I direct her once again to please make her thoughts known on the matter at hand:

Setael, please help this young grasshopper defend herself ???? Clearly you think she is town, and yet you have mysteriously withheld all your thoughts on the matter, so why don't you dignify us with a response to posts 482, 483 and 484.

So odd. You'd think I was the only one not voting Bookitty. How about, instead, we ask for ALL players' take on this exchange between you and Bookitty?

This is what I refer to as ninja moves. Scum trying to jerk us around with misdirection. I'm not having any of that bullshit, I want to confront the mafia head on. Set myself in a collision course against who I think is scum and their allies and refuse to be ignored.

After asking her kindly to please tell us why she still thinks kitty is town, she FINALLY accepts to make her reasons clear. Notice that by now, I have trapped her into defending Kitty, and she is no longer able to bus. Even if she wanted to be on the wagon, she had all her options cut.

Forced to defend Kitty, she posts this abysmal defense:

But look at it this way, you have again and again said that you don't find her scummy, and since you are a replacement we don't have a clear idea on your methodology yet. Tell me why you think 482 to 484 is not sufficient. Tell me the loopholes. Tell me something, anything, just don't go around trying to drown an argument before everyone has acknowledged based on absolutely nothing.

Hmmm... my intention is not to drown your arguments. I just think there are better places for my vote. You could be right about Boo, but one reason I think you're wrong is I think vollkan might be scum and he's supporting your wagon in a non-bussing kind of way. In my mind, that undermines the Bookitty wagon.

What do you think of vollkan ABR? Do you agree that he's been wishy washy?

As for your 482, you've listed several things "scum do" and then fit Boo's play into them. You could take any player in this game and find something they've done that fits under those. I agree that Bookitty's point against pete D wasn't strong. I don't agree with her. I don't think pete D is scum. However, the fact that her point isn't strong does not make her scum.

So then in 483 you admit it doesn't look like much, but then say that the scummiest post in the game so far is when Bookitty said she was tempted to vote pete D for it but didn't. I very much disagree that this statement is the scummiest thing in the game. How is that different from FOSing? How is it different from the FOS vollkan put on Bookitty in post 475? He's saying he thinks she's scum, but isn't voting her. What's the difference? I actually think vollkan's is worse, since it's more noncommital and allows him to hide behind your argument. It feels like he's trying to stay on everyone's good side to avoid negative attention. Bookitty's pete D points, on the other hand, as you said yourself were on a player no one had stated suspicion of. Town is more likely to do that than scum because it's not as safe.

As for 484:

I didn't find it especially clear.

Is ABR right? Is suggesting scum strategies generally considered a pro-town tell, and not to be questioned? I'd like some other people to weigh in on this point.

This is equally horrendous. Seeing this, I would be freaked out if I were her mafia partners. What kind of horror-movie-worthy post is this ? How can you make such a daring attempt at discrediting someone with pseudo-rhetoric and false dichotomies ?

Where you see this as a scum tell, I think it's more likely to be said by town who isn't worried about "freaking out their partners."

So anyway I have a town read on Bookitty, and I think the case on her is weak. I could be wrong about her, but I think there are scummier people to be focusing on right now, one of which is Unright. He's gotten all quiet now that he's out of the spotlight. Maybe he's worried he'll slip up again. I'd really like to see what happens if he gets pressured again. WHO'S WITH ME?!

Of course, the town remains unfazed. Pete D votes kitty. Volkan questions my case a bit, disagrees on some minor points about Setael and questions me a bit, but ends up voting bookitty. Notice that I didn't even answer his questions.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 560#884560

Pete D confirms vote on kitty. Karma, who has previously held an ambiguous position regarding my case, votes kitty.

Lowell votes kitty. Porochaz, who hasn't caught up with the times, votes me. Funnily enough, Setael, who posts right after, doesn't chastise Porochaz for voting me, instead threatening me with retribution. CKD unvotes. Ironically, he doesn't mention the Porochaz vote either.

MoS has read up to page 19, agrees with my case, votes bookitty. DP points out to Porochaz that I'm a claimed mason, Porochaz then quickly unvotes and votes Lowell, scrambling to justify his vote on me:

shoot I forgot about that... however I am still not discounting the theory that gage panicked when under suspicion and claimed mason and ABR not wanting his scumpartner lynched needed to claim mason as well... however I am not sure as of yet... so Im downgrading

unvote

and

fos ABR

and then

vote Lowell

for his post.

Bookitty is lynched. End of the day.

Frankly, ABR is crazy and blind if he thinks my play is conducive to being one of Boo's scum buddies. If I was I'd have either been safely on that wagon, or at least laying low. Call WIFOM all you want, it doesn't make sense for scum to blatantly defend and refuse to join the wagon of a scum buddy who's going down in flames.

What a laughable post she makes today; claiming that she would have bussed. Uh, no you wouldn't. You thought it was safe to ignore my case. You thought I could be ignored, that I would let go, and that the town would move on, that they would be swayed by your petty Unright case. You were dead wrong, Set. As I've shown above, your attempt at ignoring kitty is telling; although as I ruffled you up, you slowly fell into the mold you were avoiding earlier with your ninja moves. IMO, you were forced into a corner and had nowhere to go. Unlike Karma, you did not leave your position ambiguous for long. With the loss of your bussing power, you try to make the best of it and make a shaky, unconvincing, tacky defense for your partner, and played the 'too scummy to be scum' card by further faking emotions like this:

If Bookitty is a protown power role I am going to be SO pissed at you ABR.

Pathetic. I love you as a player of integrity and content-wise you are outstanding; but your acting skills suck. The 'I believed she was town so hard so I can't be scum because then I would be bussing' angle ain't gonna fly, Set. You lose.

---

Notice all the inconsistencies in Set and Karma, and vote for the one you prefer...although I'm dead set on Setael as being our furtive missing scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Setael

Die, scum!

[vollkan]

shoot I forgot about that... however I am still not discounting the theory that gage panicked when under suspicion and claimed mason and ABR not wanting his scumpartner lynched needed to claim mason as well... however I am not sure as of yet... so Im downgrading unvote and fos ABR and then vote Lowell for his post.

vote: porochaz

Why is that post suspicion-worthy? And why is that suspicion worthy of a vote?

You're wrong about me, so I'm willing to bet you're wrong about him as well.

The lack of logic in this post is astonishing. Let me just add in one little fact: ABR was right about Book (Setael has conceded this herself).

Therefore, is it not just as feasible to argue by Set's messed-up logic that ABR is right about Set and Poro?

Whether or not ABR is wrong about you has no bearing upon whether or not he is correct about Poro. The fact that you would make such a dodgy argument (which is a classic example of deflection as well) is scummy in the extreme.

Do you really think because he was right about Bookitty I should assume he'll be right with the rest of his hunches? I happen to know he's wrong about me, so where is the logic in trusting his gut read on Porochaz? I think Porochaz is scum and the post I quoted was super scummy. ABR disagreeing is not going to influence that just because he was right about Bookitty.

It's a no-brainer that you should not assume ABR is correct BUT the argument you just made was that ABR allegedly being incorrect on you made it more feasible he was incorrect on Poro. You are effectively making the same argument, only in the inverse.

To make what I am saying clearer-
Set #1: ABR was right on Book
Set #2: The incorrectness of ABR in relation to Set indicates his likely incorrectness on Poro.

Problem #1:

If #2 is valid (it isn't) then why should it not be equally valid for the rest of us to conclude that "since ABR was right on Book, he is likely right on Poro and Set"
Set #3: ABR being correct on Book does not mean he is correct globally (this is true, of course)...BUT-

Problem #2:

There is a direct contradiction between Set #3 and Set #2.

Notice: We still have no explanation, but now it's "super scummy".

HoS: Setael

PBPA forthcoming.

[pete d]

Call WIFOM all you want, it doesn't make sense for scum to blatantly defend and refuse to join the wagon of a scum buddy who's going down in flames.

vote: porochaz

No contradiction there.

vote: curiouskarmadog

and

FoS: Setael

, ckd's behaviour around the bookitty wagon was scummalicious. He didn't commit to anything, tried to switch pressure onto me, indirectly defended bookitty, then put on a late wagon vote once it was beyond doubt.

I guess I dont understand why mafia would leave a doctor alive. Now, we could all go into a long discussion about this but I would rather not give the mafia any more reason to act, or not to act.

In reference to Bookitty, I agree with her theory, but I dont think PeteD was scummy for saying it. That said, I think what Pete D didnt say could be viewed as scummy. I said I didnt understand why people are still voting the claim doc...instead of answering me (like you blatantly did ABR) he came back with this response:

"Why are you assuming that mafia will automatically take him out?" "With statements like this, why would mafia get rid of BM if he was a doc?"

this doesnt sounds like someone who thinks BM is scum. So again, I dont understand the vote or the prespective.

I might have voted Pete D, but Bookkitty's response was..strange...I think Pete D response was scummy for different reasons, and I dont understand why she thinks it was scummy and it seemed forced...

so I am at a loss.

thoughts?

Well if ABR wants it, I cant handle all the peer pressure.

vote bookitty, actually I think your alignment will tell us a lot (looking at pete d)

I offer you...the HAMMER!!!!

Both of these posts are really scummy.

[curiouskarmadog]

I never switch anything..I thought your reply was odd.

ALSO, you never addressed the comment.

"Why are you assuming that mafia will automatically take him out?" "With statements like this, why would mafia get rid of BM if he was a doc?"

this doesnt sounds like someone who thinks BM is scum. So again, I dont understand the vote or the prespective.

and I am scummy because I wanted to see bookitty's alignment so I hammered?


Also ABR, I unvoted (at first) because my vote was no longer needed...I really was on the fence about Peted and Bookitty...if PeteD had more votes I would have voted him. But now that he was right about Bookitty...I dont find him as scummy anymore..

[Albert B. Rampage]

Karma, are my eyes deceiving me ? Why am I not seeing your vote on Setael ?

[Dragon Phoenix]

pete d has nailed my feelings exactly. Probably they both are scum, but ckd stands out even more:

vote: curiouskarmadog

and

FoS: Setael

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yes, like I said, this post is a direct contradiction of itself:

I guess I dont understand why mafia would leave a doctor alive. Now, we could all go into a long discussion about this but I would rather not give the mafia any more reason to act, or not to act.

In reference to Bookitty,

I agree with her theory, but I dont think PeteD was scummy for saying it. That said, I think what Pete D didnt say could be viewed as scummy.

I said I didnt understand why people are still voting the claim doc...instead of answering me (like you blatantly did ABR) he came back with this response:

"Why are you assuming that mafia will automatically take him out?" "With statements like this, why would mafia get rid of BM if he was a doc?"

this doesnt sounds like someone who thinks BM is scum. So again, I dont understand the vote or the prespective.

I might have voted Pete D, but Bookkitty's response was..strange...I think Pete D response was scummy for different reasons,

and I dont understand why she thinks it was scummy and it seemed forced...

so I am at a loss.

thoughts?