Star Wars Rogue One [GAME OVER]

[Firebringer]

Vote Count 4.04

zefiend [1] Aj the Epic
PeregrineV [4] Heartless, Zefiend, Mastina, Magnaofillusion
Nero Cain [1] Drunken Piper
TheWayItEnds [1] BBmolla
Heartless [1] PeregrineV

Not Voting - [3] TheWayItEnds, Mastina, Nero Cain

With 10 Alive, It Takes 6 To Lynch.

Rogue Leader Vote:

Drunken Piper (1) Nero Cain

Mod Notes - May the flavor be with you.

Day 4 ends in (expired on 2017-02-28 00:26:20)!

[Heartless]

but u won't do that.

nor will u claim.

bc ur the messenger.

[PeregrineV]

Now let's get to the Aero post:

This post, if Aero is scum, is calling out his scumbuddy in a manner that does not allow him to bus easily, because it's not very aggressive, and does not make Pine look more town, because it's not requesting exposition.

What? That's preposterous. What about this post would prevent Aero from jumping on Pine late-wagon if he needed to? It wouldn't. In fact, it would make the bus look more convincing ("Look, I wasn't just cutting my losses, I was building on previous suspicion.")
For context, Antihero voted Pine on the previous page and at that point Pine was a 3-man wagon. It would make perfect sense for Aero!scum to call Pine scum for distancing purposes but not give the wagon any momentum by actually voting.

Scum interaction if Aero were scum would be to attack the read, or agree/sheep the read, not call them out for a completely different part of the post.

"Call them out" is a

very

generous assessment of what Aero did in Post 1076. It's a gentle poke at best. It's also hard to argue the impact of the "call out" when mastina already got on Pine's case for the "boring" line in Post 520.

In addition, scum doesn't bother with the second half of the post. This is all like 600 posts later, so Aero is reading through looking for things that ping him. If he is scum, he doesn't spend time on his buddy and then ever so weakly agree with him.

Why not? I don't get your point or why that would be so unlikely.

Same here. No reason to create an associative with a scumbuddy without townreading or bussing them. He is commenting on stuff that interests him.

The assertion that scum can't engage in idle musings about each other's posting is patently absurd. And you've never seen scum put each other in the "null read" section on their reads lists? "Either bussing or townreading" isn't a scum model that holds up to any amount of thought. Furthermore I don't think it would occur to anyone to think that exchange was particularly telling or "associative" as you're calling it. The third sentence may or may not be true, but is not alignment indicative.

Clarifying his previous stance. This one is less about Pine, but include Mastina, who I more strongly scumread when I first read through.

Clarifying his previous stance

to subtly discredit mastina's read

. Aero is going out of his way to point out mastina

can't

justify a

hard

scumread on Pine with just that kind of RVS logic.
Given that Pine was scum, that doesn't sound particularly town to me. That sounds like a soft defense.

Are you trying to argue that I'm wrong in my interpretation, or that the Aero interaction with Pine makes him scum? Because it apparently did not become your opinion that Aero/Pine scumteam until I stated my opinion that it did not.

[Heartless]

i have yet to hear a denial

[PeregrineV]

Which one of these is not like the others? The black text instead of white -- I could understand. But the coloring of "Blue One" blue seems like a mistake, trying to make the role seem more legit. However, "Blue Four" is not colored in actual PMs. You said that it was your role PM, verbatim. If you actually looked at your role PM (or just looked at the dead PMs...) you wouldn't format it like that unless you were faking it.

VOTE: Peregrine

You forget that the Anonymous Message also did not Welcome! me, like in all your quotes.

[PeregrineV]

It's quoted right on the page of this post. There was also a lengthy discussion between Anti, zefiend, Infinity, and Titus (among others) where zefiend's reads post and progression on his mastina read were central issues.
You couldn't have really missed all of that if you even took a cursory look at posts in the 90s page range and you're putting a lot more effort into mouthing off than actually attempting to understand the zefiend read.

No it's not. Just link the post like a normal forum mafia player. Half of us care and will doublecheck.

I saw where you tried to say his catchup sucked. I disagree, even if I didn't agree with his reads, he explained how he reached them.

[Heartless]

oh boy this claim dodging

let me go get that dgb quote real quick

[PeregrineV]

First, there's the simple fact that the two posts were made under fundamentally different conditions. Post 1341 was made on Day 1, before any flips, and Post 3075 was made on Day 3, after Pine had already flipped scum. That changes the lens I view the posts through. Sure Aero's anti-Pine point in Post 1075 was a fair one, but was there any semblance of a concerted Pine push or a vote on Pine when it mattered? No.

When did it matter? You and Aero pushed Pine exactly equally. Except maybe Aero pushed him more than you. You voted him with Drunk's guilty.

In day1, you didn't like his posts, voted him once, then decided he was town:

The only one I would keep in the null tier is TWIE. I think Titus is mildly town for her most recent push on Infinity. While I don't agree with the points that Infinity's been especially "agreeable" or "buddying," the push itself feels genuine from posts like Post 1201 and Post 1209. Keeping in mind that catchups are often look "town" given the poster's advantage of doing everything after-the-fact, Aeronaut's catch ups still look town to me. He's reacting to mostly important things and the commentary does suggest a genuine reads development.

I also don't think Pine-A-Tonics has a good chance of being scum. The Gin head has already had some good posts that Infinity's already picked up on and pointed out. I also happened to take a look at the Hunger Games thread where both heads were scum. Given that baseline of scum activity, I'm a bit doubtful both these heads would sit on their asses, especially when getting voted up. I think the apathy's a little more likely to be town than not here.

-TTH

Then there's the other set of eyes and brain on this game who is on record in this thread as having doubts about the Aero slot in Post 1613 and he's since acquired a strong scumread on the second occupant of the slot, zefiend. In our conversations about this game, he repeatedly insisted the zefiend slot was scum for the same reasons he's giving in this game thread. Since I respect him and value his opinion, I re-evaluated my initial Aeronaut read and realized it might not have been accurate. These kinds of things happen in a functional and healthy hydra.

Nah, I counted that, you voted him once day1.

Looking at Zefiend's catcup post:

OK, read the whole game. I have a lot of conflicting thoughts about many players, but at this point I am pretty confident that

@mastina

and

@Heartless

are town, so I would appreciate some help sorting through these thoughts and maybe pointing out things I missed.

I like

@Nero Cain

's points about Titus and I feel a lot of players are sleeping on her this game. However I do not like Nero's thoughts on mastina because his scumlean(?) read on her seems poorly or under-developed. I feel that mastina's defense against his concerns (re: the timeline of game events, and the motivations behind Pine and mastina's actions) was legitimate.

However, I also like

@Titus

' issues with Infinity. I do believe he has been opportunistic (hell, he even admitted as much D1) with respect to wagoning. His read on mastina also feels unnatural, propelled in part by a combination of paranoia and the general tendency of others (re: Nero & Heartless (at times)) to pressure her. On the other hand, I dislike the fact that Titus' scope and breadth of other players in the game is quite narrow. I would feel more comfortable with the slot if she attempted to engage others with more vigor.

I initially liked

@Infinity

's push to get the game rolling, so-to-speak, and that has always been a personal town-tell I use. I cannot definitively point to anything Infinity has pushed or pressured organically, but at the same time, he does ask beneficial questions and probe efficiently when things are "happening" in the thread. I feel uneasy about this slot, but not necessarily worried. Infinity, do you feel that Titus' game-long push on you is a non-issue?

I believe Heartless already asked this question, but

@DrunkenPiper

: if you tracked Pine to nacho N1, wouldn't you also have tracked him to BBmolla? If you didn't, isn't that confirmation that BBmolla is lying about being vanillaized? I don't know how Firebringer would resolve that but maybe you should ask him.

@SirCakez

: You asked me to specifically look at the Pine interactions. I noticed, while reading D1, that you continually regarded the Pine-wagon as a poor lynch. You and I both know that I have been burned by reading too heavily into something like that before (re: College Mafia, where you soft-defended scum on D1). The key difference this game, however, is that the scum in question has flipped earlier than 3-way LYLO, yet nobody else seems to be calling attention to these associations (besides Infinity's VCA). What exactly were you hoping I gleaned from analyzing the Pine interactions?

The LUV/Peregrine slot is actually pretty null for me and hopefully Peregrine will contribute more.

I am comfortable sheeping mastina on BBmolla -- his content is unsatisfactory, mastina pointed out a key logical fallacy (re: SirCakez--Aj the Epic D1 voting patterns) that seemed to get buried, and the gambit actually seems quite plausible.

I would also lynch Aj toDay for a collection of pinging behavior I recall from my reread. I would have to dig deeper and review to shore up that scumread, but for now I just wanted to get my initial thoughts out there.

It sure look's like he's reacting to mostly important things and the commentary does suggest a genuine reads development.

[Heartless]

Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.

[PeregrineV]

Are we sure this isn't a scum plot to get Pv lynched? Scum Rolecop + Scum Messenger?

Why would my PM being posted result in my lynch, that's r-

Yeah, I see what you mean now.

[PeregrineV]

will hammer if needed
PV want to say anything else smart or seeded?

Would like to know if you tracked Pine to Molla. I can't find where you said "Yes, Yes". Because that does rhyme.

[Heartless]

he didn't

claim

[PeregrineV]

unvote

don't want PV to self hammer. I'm forcing MOI to read the rest of the game.

That's OK. If I log in next time and I'm at L-1, I'll hammer. There's no point in posting and being ignored.

[PeregrineV]

if he's scum he's going to have to do stuff eventually regardless of what happens in the next couple hours.

a non-pv lynch just isn't happening at this point. there's really no sense in prolonging this

Yes, you idiots, no point in not lynching me!!

Day 4 ends in

10 days, 6 hours, 11 minutes!

[PeregrineV]

i'll take that action

if u self hammer

lol, no you won't!

[PeregrineV]

but u won't do that.

nor will u claim.

bc ur the messenger.

Ok.

[PeregrineV]

i have yet to hear a denial

Already said I'm not claiming. I have no info to add to the game anyway, and anything I say just to not be lycnhed would be stupid, because nobody will bother listening anyway.

[PeregrineV]

oh boy this claim dodging

let me go get that dgb quote real quick

Go quote where you did all the things you claimed.

[Heartless]

yeah... that's what i thought.

[PeregrineV]

Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.

Reading is tech.

[PeregrineV]

he didn't

claim

yeah... that's what i thought.

No, you were actually told 6(?) times that I wasn't claiming.

[PeregrineV]

Yeah, that's what I thought....

[Heartless]

so molla, is pv not claiming part of the conspiracy too?

[Heartless]

molla, nero, twie, dp. you know what needs to be done

pv you can have the last word today

[PeregrineV]

molla, nero, twie, dp. you know what needs to be done

pv you can have the last word today

So your really not going to respond to anything?