'The Lost Boys' Mafia (Cry Little Sister, it's OVER!)

[Ectomancer]

Why did we conduct a vote where we, as a majority, decided everyone was going to fully claim if some of us was not going to fully claim? That ruins the entire point of a full and complete claim list. This is not a usual game, this is a cult game, and in a cult game we are playing by different rules, especially a cult game where the townies can seemingly avoid getting the draft.

Anix, I was feeling similiar, until he was willing to say that he can't go out at night. Also, forgive me for asking you to state one more time

your

role. I see townie on the list, but don't recall you actually saying it, and a quick dive back through your posts didn't summon it to me.

[Ectomancer]

Ok, here we go, quick and dirty:


cicero - Beach Bum -

Safe claim adds suspicion. Of the 2 remaining beach bums, I'd prefer to lynch Setael. I tend to believe this claim

Sudo_Nym - Grandpa, Bomb -

Interesting claim. Does anyone see Sudo coming up with this one? I don't. Makes me believe it.

Setael - Beach Bum -

Safe claim adds suspicion. Possible CR.

-TinVision- -Frog Brother co-vig, tracker -

Claim fits the flavor, tracker makes sense in a cult game to me. I believe this claim.

Arafax- Vamp townie, Paul -

First to claim movie vamp townie. That was dangerous time for a CR to make that type of claim, as evidenced by TheFonz's lynch. I mostly believe this claim.

Dasquian--Vamp townie, Marko -

Could be a CR safe claim, but with 2 of this group proven not to be the CR, and the other very believable, I also tend to believe this claim

Sir.Laggalot- Frog Brother co-vig, tracker -

Claim fits the flavor, tracker makes sense in a cult game to me. I believe this claim.

AniX-- Michael Emerson. Townie. -

No free pass here. There could be problems with this claim, or if true, Michael could be the CR.

Ectomancer - Timmy Cappello. Roleblocker. -

Beefcake studmuffin. Who wouldn't want to claim that? I might have claimed it even if I didnt have it...

Mariyta - Security Guard, half-vampire -

I don't see a gambit like this from a CR. I believe this claim.

Crub-- Dwayne. Townie. -

Not the Cult Recruiter. I believe this claim.

Yosarian2-- Samuel Emerson. Townie. -

Not a believable claim. If you are a lying townie, you should fess up. Getting caught out will just get you lynched anyhow.

PookyTheMagicalBear-- Surf Nazi - Vanilla -

Believable claim. Not likely a CR would make this claim when he could have just been the 3rd Beach Bum.

Mastermind of Sin--Lucy Emerson - passive ability -

I don't trust MOS, but this claim doesn't raise any flags.

Battle Mage - Mason Star - Partner is Hackerhuck.
HackerHuck - BM's Mason Partner, Somebody or Other. -

This pair has bothered me all game. I don't trust them. I believe their names are right, but not the roles. I believe they could be a CR pair and here comes the wild speculation: The two of them have to work together to recruit effectively. They did this on night 1 and night 3. On night 2, they didn't, and that is possibly why Mariyta has a choice, but we haven't heard from anyone else.

That makes my possible scum list (in no particular order):

Setael
Anix
Battle Mage/HackerHuck
Yosarian2

with MOS getting an honorable mention.

[HackerHuck]

Yes, I am Laddy. I thought I had already claimed it, but I know that BM breadcrumbed it on day two.

Specifically regarding me, why do you think that we didn't work together on night two? You admittedly blocked Crub on night two, so what do you attribute our "failure" to? I do see your point on the mason pairs possibly being a CR pair - that also would allow for a lucky N0 shot. I don't really see how you can clear the frog brothers from suspicion there. I think the vig/tracker roles could disguise CR activities - especially if someone

must

kill as a recruit. I also noticed that you failed to mention your "roleblock" of Tinvision in your player list. I don't really see how that would clear him anyway.

I do find your role to be an interesting inclusion. Given the setup as we have speculated - Cult recruiter, no mafia or consistent killing roles - it's rather difficult to confirm your role, short of you blocking a claimed power role - and now you have no reason to, so we won't know if you're actually successful in blocking the CR.

I also think you're overly discounting the possibility of SafeClaims. It's not far fetched for a safe claim to be one of a group - i.e. Marko from the movie vamps or even something like Surf Nazi or the beach bums.

I'm also not sure how Michael Emerson is such a suspicious claim, while Lucy is not.

I agree that these people have pretty believable claims and are low on my CR suspicion list:
Sudo_Nym
Arafax
Mariyta
Crub - He's only the CR if Ecto is lying (or possibly Mariyta).
BattleMage - I'm going to be ticked at Flay if I have yet another scum as my mason partner.

I am inclined to believe a Cult Recruited would not be found in this group, but this is more of my middle ground list.
TinVision/Sir.Laggalot - I could see one of them possibly being the CR, but I'm not buying the CR pair.
AniX - early soft claim, could have been a way to buy some credibility, but I'm not convinced
Ectomancer - Claiming roleblocker has it's risks and while that might be scummy, it's less likely to be CR-ish.
Cicero - Playing a little too loose in my opinion to be a CR.

That kind of leaves me with these people to focus on.
Setael
Dasquian
Yosarian2
Pooky
MoS

I feel that MoS might as well claim full flavor. We've already opened Pandora's box, so I don't think holding anything back will be a real benefit to the town.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

My char doesn't have a name

it's just "Surf Nazi"

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian2-- Samuel Emerson. Townie. -

Not a believable claim. If you are a lying townie, you should fess up. Getting caught out will just get you lynched anyhow.

Not a believable claim??? What the hell? It's the single best flavor claim ANYONE could CONCIEVEABLY make, being the main good guy character IN the movie. Obveously no flavor claim compleltly CLEARS someone, since anything COULD concievably be a safe claim or something, but my role name comes about the closest to clearing me that any role name possibly could. How, exactally, is my role "not believable"??

[Crub]

Actually before you claimed it, it came to mind that Sam would be 100% the best safe claim ever! I wasn't actually surprised that you claimed Sam and vanilla.

[Mr. Flay]

Thirteenth Vote Count of Day Four:

PookyTheMagicalBear - 4 (Dasquian, Mariyta, Setael, Crub)

Mastermind of Sin - 3 (Yosarian2, HackerHuck, cicero)
Yosarian2 - 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
AniX - 1 (Battle Mage)

Not Voting - 7 (PookyTheMagicalBear, AniX, -TinVision-, Sudo_Nym, Arafax, Sir.Laggalot, Ectomancer)

With sixteen left, nine votes will be needed to lynch.

[cicero]

Hiya, I really want to comment on all this but I really want MoS to finish his claim first. I have good reasons. So if we could keep some pressure there that would be cool. Please.

[Mariyta]

MOS, please claim fully.

I was gonna vote Pooky, but I realized I already was. I'm more inclined to believe the only Surf Nazi is a crap claim than Sam Emerson, although Sam being vanilla is hard to believe, too.

[Ectomancer]

Yosarian2-- Samuel Emerson. Townie. -

Not a believable claim. If you are a lying townie, you should fess up. Getting caught out will just get you lynched anyhow.

Not a believable claim??? What the hell? It's the single best flavor claim ANYONE could CONCIEVEABLY make, being the main good guy character IN the movie. Obveously no flavor claim compleltly CLEARS someone, since anything COULD concievably be a safe claim or something, but my role name comes about the closest to clearing me that any role name possibly could. How, exactally, is my role "not believable"??

David was town. Sam? Could be anything. Vanilla? I have serious doubts. If town, don't get caught outside without fessing up.

Pooky, night 2 speculation is based off of the "other" Mason role limitations. Both would make flavor sense. Frog Brothers are incompetent. Star is a woman and Laddy a child. They need each other to do anything effectively.
It also makes sense from the game perspective. Why else would Mariyta be given a choice, but as far as we know, nobody else? Because she is a power role? Not a movie vamp? Another random reason? I believe that my explanation fits at least as well as most and better than some.

Michael Emerson is suspicious as he was the primary "good guy" who resisted the Cult in the movie. Why not have him be the primary bad guy here? Not a strong enough argument to lynch by any means, but certainly reason enough to keep him on my radar.

On TinVision and SirLags: Several factors make me believe their claims are true. From TinVision's discussion of his night 1 actions

before

I announced I roleblocked him, to the need for a mechanism to trap a CR (tracking), to the need to be able to "tread water" against a Cult later by removing cult members we find (Vig), to the counter to the Vig and half-vamps (Bomb), to the absolute flavor sense of their roles. Proven innocent? No. Suspicious? Not that either.

Here's a direct question to BattleMage and HackerHuck since we are fully claiming: Do you have any abilities? Claim them now please if you do.

MOS, claim fully please.

[Ectomancer]

EBWOP: Should have said HH rather than Pooky in paragraph 2.

[Setael]

If MoS claims because of Cicero's "good reason" it better be REALLY good. He's just a beach bum like me so I can't imagine anything worth it, but then my imagination is on the fritz.

I doubt surf nazi was given by the mod as a safe claim, since I could've seen a mafia group being called the surf nazis. More likely pooky picked that as a safe claim, knowing that if there was another one in the game it wouldn't break his claim.

I agree with HH's list. I know it's not me, and I don't think it's MoS so I'm left with:

Dasquian
Yosarian2
Pooky

I would happily hammer any of these 3.

[cicero]

If MoS claims because of Cicero's "good reason" it better be REALLY good. He's just a beach bum like me so I can't imagine anything worth it, but then my imagination is on the fritz.

The reason is good not OMGZ gamebreakingzciceroyouroxord it!! Dont get your hopes up. Basically I'm not interested in playing the game you are all playing until Mister Mastermind puts his cards on the table. Then I can speculate without all the IF/THEN statements.

We are all fully aware that full claiming helps scum. The question is whether it can help town

more

. In this case I believe it can. As I said, I think MoS's passive ability is a nightkill immunity. I'd like him to confirm that for me. He's done a good job of waiting until the very end to claim.

Why on earth is MoS above your suspicion at this point, Setael? What makes him, for example, less suspicious than Pooky? Or Yosarian for that matter?

[Mastermind of Sin]

cicero, it's precisely

because

you think I have a nightkill immunity that I don't want to reveal the specifics. You may, in fact, be correct, but if I don't have nightkill immunity, it scares the mafia away from killing me at night.

However, it seems as if the town has spoken, so I'll claim. I have lynch immunity. The flavor behind this is that both sides in the movie had reason to keep her alive. Max, as the leader of the vampires in the movie, is in love with her and wants to make her into a vampire, and the non-vampires obviously want to protect her from him. Neither side wants her to die.

[Setael]

[quote="MoS']What makes him, for example, less suspicious than Pooky? Or Yosarian for that matter? [/quote]

Really? How about you read my posts in isolation and then YOU can tell ME.

[Ectomancer]

Did you make up that flavor or was it provided to you and that was as close as you could come without quoting? I'm particularly interested in the part about Max and whether a name was mentioned or whether a person was merely implied.

[Setael]

Wow my post was all kinds of broken. Should've been quoting cicero.

[cicero]

K. Thanks MoS.

The reason that I wanted MoS to fully claim was because there are a few power-roles that scream "I'm scum". Two of those are nightkill immunity. The other is roleblocker which is why I keep a strained eye on ectomancer. Had MoS stated NK immunity it would have given credence to a theory which might have seen MoS and Ecto in the same scum group. As it is I still see that as a possibility but onlu a possibility.

The other thing that is really important is to get an idea of how our Mod uses safe claims. With apologies to Mister Flay for meta-ing him, I direct people to this thread..

I quote our moderator in that public thread:

If you are having five out of seven of them in the game and you're making one of them scum, don't make it the morally ambiguous character.

I'm going to disagree with this. It's mucking with the theme more than is strictly necessary to take a role that is "definitely town" and making it scum; that's

punishing

familiarity with the theme.

Safe Claims are a better way around this problem; give scum some idea of 'safe' names that are not actually in the game, if their own roles will mark them out.

Safe Claims are a better way around this problem; give scum some idea of 'safe' names that are not actually in the game, if their own roles will mark them out.

Safe claims are one way of dealing with the problem, but honestly I don't see the difference between being Luke Skywalker who happens to be scum and being Darth Vader who knows he can safely claim to be Luke Skywalker.

Safe claims are one way of dealing with the problem, but honestly I don't see the difference between being Luke Skywalker who happens to be scum and being Darth Vader who knows he can safely claim to be Luke Skywalker.

You don't see a difference between Player A claiming "Luke Skywalker, Vigilante" and being revealed upon death as "Darth Vader, Scum" and Player A claiming "Luke Skywalker, Vigilante" and being revealed as "Luke Skywalker, Scum"?

The latter requires a complete reappraisal of the theme. I don't think the Harry Potter game was a very good example of 'fixing' this problem, no. That's very close to Bastard Moddery.

Here's what I deduced from that: The cult recruiter will definitely have a safe claim from a named hero that isnt in the game. As long as that person is alive they will show up as a hero's name. Upon death they will be revealed as Max. This is why I was pressing for flavor. I wanted to weed out the surf nazis and beach bums from the more likely recruiters:

Michael, Sam, Grandpa, Lucy, Frog Brothers, and Star and Laddy. I do not consider "beach bum" "surf nazi" or "vampire" to be safe-claims as discussed above.

Of these suspects, here is what I think now.

Grandpa Sudonym: I tend to want to believe these weird claims based on some of the weird things we called bullcrap on that turned out to be true. Bear in mind, the fact that the cult

hasn't

killed doesnt meant that it

doesn't

kill.

Frog Brothers: I believe. Period.

Star BM and LaddyHuck: I believe them. BM's behavior is completely in line with the claim. He acted like a searching mason which is completely in accordance with the claim.

Michael Anix: Now Anix knows why I kept saying he was on my scumlist. Michael is a good safeclaim. However, it is a very high profile safeclaim. I have a sense that Flay would be more likely to leave out supporting characters than leads. Anix's play, for whatever reason, feels town to me. But he should still be strongly considered as possible scum. His main contributions to the game have been a) lynch him and arafax, and b) Mass claim. While I supported the mass claim, I do think scum have reasons for wanting it as well. Particularly because I think the scum are punished for recruiting power roles. Overall though Anix is lowe on my scum list than others. Call it gut.

Sam Yosarian: Obviously I suspect Yosarian. Greatly. Like...a lot. The thing about claiming townie with trackers though is that there's nothing to disguise your night actions. So either he's telling the truth, or there's more than one "recruiter". Trackers cant find the recruiter with 100% certainty just by looking for night actions I dont think. To Yos's credit he was actually one of the "now hold up a minute" people on the Peers lynch.

Lucy MoS: I have been quite suspicious of for quite a while. His Lucy claim and the odd flavor mechanics around it leave me still quite suspicious though not as suspicious as if he called NK.

A good plan might be to lynch Yosarian and have the Frog Brothers Vig Kill Mastermind of Sin. I think they are our most likely two baddies at this point. But before we do we all need to use the info we have to look at the probably game balance a smart guy like Flay would put in place. I'm working on a few scenarios now. This post is long enough though.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Did you make up that flavor or was it provided to you and that was as close as you could come without quoting? I'm particularly interested in the part about Max and whether a name was mentioned or whether a person was merely implied.

There were no names mentioned in my flavor. I merely provided that as further explanation of the flavor for people who have not seen the movie, so that they understand where the flavor came from.

cicero, my reaction to Setael's claim of bomb should have tipped you off that I did not have NK immunity, but I did not want to say anything about that until it was decided that I would claim my ability.

[cicero]

I havent seen a lynch immunity myself. It seems a very very difficult thing to balance in my opinion. Particularly in a game with a cult. If we try to lynch you does it count as a no lynch and we go to night? If the cult recruits you and you accept and the vigilantes are dead that would be an automatic cult win. I don't like it.

I do see a pattern between your claim, Peers and Sudonym. They all seem to punish town for mislynch choices.

I *really* think we might need to vig kill you no matter what. Please explain why I'm wrong.

[Ectomancer]

You have taken care of 2 of the possible plays Cicero, who would the 3rd choice be for neutralizing?

[cicero]

You mean who should you roleblock? Probably Pooky or Anix.

[Yosarian2]

Actually before you claimed it, it came to mind that Sam would be 100% the best safe claim ever! I wasn't actually surprised that you claimed Sam and vanilla.

Um, early you were attacking me with the craplogic of "if everyone who has claimed is telling the truth, then one of X, Y, or Z must be scum". Any specific reason you've decided to believe everyone EXCEPT me? Especally when I have a much stronger claim then most?

This is especally frustrating since earlier in the game I was being attacked on the bogus grounds of:

However, feels like Yos' 1447 is scum who doesn't have a safe claim

I was so tempted to claim right there just to throw that stupid theory out the window, but I knew it would be much more useful for the town for me to wait until the iron-clad rolename I had would be more useful. Unfortunatly, the town decided to waste that stuff in a un-needed and useless mass claim.

David was town. Sam? Could be anything. Vanilla? I have serious doubts. If town, don't get caught outside without fessing up.

If Maryta is telling the truth, then the Vampires, the "Lost Boys", are the bad guys. If the Lost Boys are the bad guys, then Sam is pretty clearly a good guy if the flavor makes any sense at all. Which also matches with the "frog brothers" mason claim. So, no, Sam could not "Be anything". I can understand someone wondering if it's a safe claim or whatever, but it's no more likely to be one then anything anyone else has claimed. However, it should be completly obveous to anyone who's paying attention that, if Sam is in the game, he must be a good guy.

And why wouldn't you think he would be vanillia? It's not like he had any special powers in the movie or anything. He was pretty much just a normal guy thrown into a bad situation; I wouldn't expect Sam to be a cop or anything like that. He did kill vampires, but there are roles that would make more sense as a vig then he would. So, if you were going to put Sam into this game, what role would you give him?

(shrug) I do understand that major characters tend to be given power roles, and this is partly why I wanted us to name-claim but not claim roles a few pages back, by the way. If I had just claimed Sam but not claimed my role like I wanted to, I likely would have drawn a kill away from the power roles, whenever someone decided to join the cult and kill a pro-town role in the process, like Maryta apparently was given the oppertunity to do. But people just steamrolled and ignored my objections. In any case, though, I think Sam as a vanillia role makes perfect flavor sense, especally considering the unorthadox ways other roles have been implimented this game.

[Ectomancer]

David was a Lost Boy. David was town. So no, the flavor doesn't give you any clearance by claiming that role at all.
Sam was the guy in the movie most responsible for helping his brother avoid "becoming a blood sucker". He wore a necklace of garlic, had a bathtub of holy water, his dog also protected him against vampire attacks. I was expecting some type of Doc role from Sam whenever he showed up, hence my warnings about being caught out as vanilla.

[cicero]

Unvote. Vote Yosarian2

Request

that the two vigilantes

both target and kill Mastermind of Sin tonight

. Mastermind of Sin should, quite frankly, be happy to go along with this despite his disappointment at leaving the game.

Request

they be unmolested by roleblocker in doing so.

Request

that the following players start to take a MUCH more active role in this game:

Tinvision
Sir Laggalot
Sudonym

Particularly the two vigilantes.