Mini 523 - Game Over!

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

As much as I want to, I am very hesitant to place a vote on DS. I fear that if it goes bad, and he ends up town, people might turn on me, considering my history with him.

All I can say is that I was wrong. DS did manage to say something incrminating in this situation. You all saw it.

Vote: Disciple Slayer

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

And just as a little side note.

It really doesn't look like the investigation is going to happen now. I still have my suspicions about Nudude. If DS is scum, It looks like he is trying to piggie back with Infinitive to keep suspicions off of Nudude, hence the reason DS and Infinitive's most suspicious moves are so similar.

[Disciple Slayer]

Here are my scum choices.

Thanatos, Nudude, and DLS. Make sure to lynch one of them after you lynch me, since I'm losing interest in this game. If you guys really want a run-down on why I think they're scum, let me know. Otherwise I won't bother.

[Nudude]

I'll take all the information I can get, give me a run - down.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

I second that motion. Please do tell.

[Infinitive]

Aww, geez. I go and get my car and come back to an accusation that if I don't pull a vote off of someone I suspect what another person put them at L-1, I'm to blame? When I posted ahead of time that I'd be out? Ugh.

I'm not going to drop that hammer on DS, who, I feel obligated to note, has gone from 0 votes to 4 in the space of one page. I've long felt he was scummy, but this changeover has gone too fast, and I'm beginning to suspect that he's trying to get lynched, just to get out of the game. If he's scum as well, yaytastic. I want more discussion though, if for no other reason than to get people on record for their votes against DS (more comprehensively than as a reaction top his vote) for d3.

And yes, I do still want to move the game forward- with everything except DS's vote, we've reached a stopping point today, and the only way to convert to new information is to lynch someone and move forward; the lynch and nightkills will give us the information we need to make good decisions tomorrow, and I feel that we've exhausted our lines of questioning for today.

[Nudude]

I can appreciate that you don't want to hammer DS, and that's fine. By all means do some investigating, and if you feel there should be someone else to vote for then present your case. You can never have too much discussion.

However, it is worth noting that earlier you just wanted to get the day over and done with.

Just so we're clear, I don't have any problem with people not wanting to rush. Take all the time you need to make a decision you feel is correct.

The reason I find interesting is that when Thanatos was about to be lynched, you basically said "I just want to get this done with". With DS, you say "Hang on, lets not rush". The only variable is the person we're lynching.

If you were being honest when you said you just wanted the day done, why is DS different from Thanatos? I'm not saying you should hammer DS, I just want to know why you would say "Lets get the day done", and then when the opportunity presents itself, you suddenly change your mind?

[Thanatos]

Ok, time for part one of my PBPA on DLS. lets seem what I get, and how far I get into it. This will be a summary of EVERY post she makes, and any mention of her by others of significance.

Post 19: random vote on Nikon, confirmed townie.

Post 23: Lord Nikon does his weird response to her, somewhere between OMGUS and semi-random.

Post 39: HeH makes one of the first significant posts of this game, commenting on DLS making a fourth vote on Page one. I'll keep that in mind, since he DID die. Infinitive defended her.

Post 49: She unvotes. Fair enough...

Post 50: Nudude keeps his FOS on for really BS logic. I remember him being called on it, and him backing down, but I still think that was a bad move by Nudude early on.

Post 51/52: she defends herself, and he backs down.

to be continued...Right now, I've noted how, even from the start, she's yet to do anything that's not defensive, though there was also alot of bad arguments about her, and some people defending her.

Post 55 is continuing discussion of her Random vote, though I wonder now..She said she had a random reason, but she delayed because she didn't notice Lord Nikon...but what did Lord Nikon have that drew "not being dark like her"as a reason. wouldn't that apply to anyone. This is kinda out dated, but I find it odd..

post 64: VL points to a possible Charter, DLS, Infinitive link. Kinda interesting, ecessially since, unless A. We don't have a cop by some fluke, or B. Our cop is a TOTAL idiot who doesn't realize the importance of lynching scum right now.. VL is most likely town. HeH and infinitive argue against VL.

76: DLS gives an "I'm new" response, and it seems to go well. Nudude is a noted standout in his opinion, being "reserved" in his opinion on her.

Post 95: She defends S_K, and I suppose by extension, myself. I've stated my opinion on the connection between S_K and myself, and I don't think this is really the time to go into it further.

Page 100: HeH, confirmed townie, accuses DLS of redirecting attacks on S_K to LN, another confirmed townie; and again comments on a link.

Post 101: she gives a snippy response to HeH, which DT (sadly, confirmed townie) called scummy.

(also, I just pinpointed the begining of the DT lynch. it was NUDUDE, shortly after this. I'm making a note of that here, because it's one of the most important points in this game)

Post 117: Infinitive mentions that DLS vanished after the heat died down.

120: She throws in her tentitive hat agaisnt DT, but doesn't vote or official FOS. She does question HeH though...about her own post. This bugs me. Why, when a case is starting to build, is she still defensive?

125: She attacks DT! Sorta. She questions him on his goddamn smilie conversation. But that's most like trying to work out what he said.

135: A handsome Stranger joins the game. Press considers it the beginning of a new golden age! *shot* Bust seriously, looking back at what I thought about certain people...It's given me a few ideas.

Page 168: She launches the first attack against DS...I may skip this part.

Post :173: she laments her inability to watch scrubs, missing, along with the rest of us, DTs rather unsubtle roleclaim.

184: DT Roleclaims House. We were, in fact, as thoroughly boned as I said.

Post 190: is when the shitstorm began..though looking back, DLS' first shot didn't make much sense.

I'll cut it off there, and continue later.

Here is what I noticed...DLS is consistant, but she's not entirely in the shadows...one thing I noticed was that she said that she scanned the first page for mentions of her name. That leads me to believe she's a very defensive player, perhaps simply because it is her nature. Feel free to discuss this as it continues on. I'm only a 3rd done.

Ok, doing this has basicly stopped me from doing anything else in this game, or any other game, so I'm going to finish this and catch up now.

I hope no one minds if I skip over the Argument. One thing to note though is that the point of the Contention was started by DLS scum hunting. A lot of what occurred was reflected later on when DS attacked me on D2, which I find interesting, such as when he commented on DLS admitting to Twisting his words, when this clearly wasn't the case, but that's enough on that.

Post #302: I'll pick it up here, where the fight basically end.

306: She argues against killing Deepthought that day, since no one counterclaimed. Hindsight's 20-20 =/. This is her last post for a while.

308: Nudude says the following on the fight, for the record. "DLS's mannerisims have seemed a bit strange, and perhaps the message she was trying to convey got misconstrued, but she's strange in a way that does not further the cause of any imaginable scum agenda. I'm leaning to her innocence at this moment."

Her next post is 410: Interesting, because she takes a hundred posts off, only to show up the second her name is mentioned, by Nudude, asking for input. Of course, this probably lead to it, but it shows she was reading. DS himself comments on this. The only thing in terms of Scum hunting I note here is her questions doubting my plan for detecting DT's alignment:a plan I still say would save us a lot of crap. DS disagrees.

422: she says that there are likely Scum on DT's lynch.

426: DS askes her to vote, she says she's noted her not voting, and is aware that she should soon.

446: She askes doe someone to comment on post 422. Interesting, that she's trying to draw attention to herself. I don't know if I can call that townie, but it's interesting. I tell her, basicly, that she didn't say shit, which is also important.

Now, if she's scum, and she's simply trying to appear interesting, is this something she would be doing?

This is her last post of D1.

Oh, something I noticed infinitive say. He said that a false leader won a game he had played in.

Infinitive, if you can please show me the game you referenced at the start of Day 2, I'd be greatful.

507: says she still thinks DS is supicious, but she's leave him alone for the moment, then says "At this point anything I have to say will probaly have already been pointed out and I will get accused of simply agreeing with others and not producing new evidence like it seems a few others have fallen victim to. I'm going to attempt a re-read and see if I can bring something new to the table......" which I don't think ever happened.

527: DS uses HeH to cast suspicions on DLS, attempting to bait her, and later me.

556: She snaps back at DS for not so subtly hinting that she was my Scumbudy, saying that there was no basis outside of her defending SK in the beginning of the game.

562/63: Defends herself and then me from DS. the two of them continue to duke it out, while I argue against DS. He accuses her of overreacting, she denies it, and she's very defensive through this, but that's natural. I still say DS is a total Asshole, so I kinda skim over these types of arguments between the two of them.

579: Her "I lied" post. she defends herself to Gorgon, saying she wasn't attacking a PBP itself, but DS's usage of it. Being in the same situation, I understand and agree with what she's saying, but that's obvious. She also says "I wouldn't call myself being overly defensive. I may be overly explaining myself, but thats just because I'm trying my best to cover myself from all sides"

581: she says her lie was a turn of phrase, rather than an actual lie.

583: She defines overly defensive as "I see being overly defensive as being short and snappy with people when they accuse you and trying to force them to back off by being mean to them. If me trying to cover myself from all sides is overly defensive" which she's not been. She is, however, mainly defensive.

587: She refuses to quote comments made by DS, effectively out of spite.

595: She repeats that her Lie was about her not talking about something, which she later decided to speak on

597: Citing "Recent evidence" Nudude votes her. She asks "what evidence."

603: Nudude's vote on DLS is stated as being due to her biggest post being what she put on me, setting this entire reread into motion

609: DLS says that she feels as though Nudude isn't really voting her for a real reason, and the he doesn't read her posts.

613: Nudude's response is that she's accusing him of not listening to what she's said because he didn't understand the points he was making, to which she responds that he didn't read them at all, because he ignores things she said.

614: she asks where DS went.

623: she clarifies her stance, saying that Nudude skims her post, then asks her to check his facts for him. Interestingly, she doesn't imply that he's being scum. she then asks charter to follow up his statement about nudude possibly being scum in her next post...

Ugh! I'm sorry, but I can't do this any more. This has taken me all night, and I have a headache. I've looked at her actions, and frankly, I think she's been very consistent in her actions. I can't read her stuff easily, because she doesn't type it out clearly, and I think she acts suspicious at times, but all in all, I think she's a legitimately defensive person, who has attempted to scum hunt by observing the way people act.

If you don't like that, I'll go into it deeper, but right now, I can't talk about this anymore. I still need to read all the recent posts from the past 10 days.

[Thanatos]

hmm...Interesting. DS, one of my most hated players, is at L-1, and I can hammer him.

In the end, I really think DS is more likely to be scum than almost anyone in this game, and killing him today is the best thing we can do. He's been scummy, aguementitive, and ignores arguments that don't suit him.

I may come to regret this, but I'll

Vote:DS

and do you one better.

Tomorrow morning, I'll claim. It will cast a lot of light onto what has happened in this game, and the reasons I've done the things I did. I'll also explain why I chose Morning of D3 to claim.

But I'll discuss this after the Scum kill VL, or (hopefully not) me, in an attempt to keep me quiet. That is, unless, there is no D3....But we'll see.

As I said, I'm not entirely in a proper state of mind at the moment, having been staring at this topic for a while, but I do have some idea about what I'm doing, so..as I said, let the die be cast.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

No, you fool! You fully justified fool!! ((lol))

We were waiting until after DS said his spleel about who should be lynched after him. You were included on that list. Though I wonder if he was ever really going to produce the reasons anyway....he vanished again.

[Infinitive]

I wanna get this in before the thread locks for night.

Here's the game I was referencing at the beginning of d2. BillyTwilight was the false leader, and I called him out d1. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... hlight=483

The difference between Than and DS, for me, was the length of time that was allowed for a case to build. Than's case was pretty well fleshed-out by the time that I voted for him, and I was confident that he was the best choice, given other options, for reasons that I posted repeatedly. I felt that the best way to gain information in general for the town, given our stall at that point in time, was to move to a lynch and see what we learn from that and NKs.

DS's case went from first vote to lynch in about a page. I may have wanted to move the game forward in general, but DS was lynched too damn fast. Flat-out, guys. He never had a chance, and it should be noted that he did the same thing that I did- why did you all give me a chance to explain and talk and not him? Or were you looking for an excuse to lynch him, as Than has explicitly stated and I strongly suspect DLS of taking the opportunity to do.

This whole lynch is fishy, I say. Majorly fishy.

[Thanatos]

No, you fool! You fully justified fool!! ((lol))

We were waiting until after DS said his spleel about who should be lynched after him. You were included on that list. Though I wonder if he was ever really going to produce the reasons anyway....he vanished again.

We were? Damn. This is what I get for voting as soon as I get back.

I don't know about anyone else, but both me and DLS have been stating a case against DS all Day. Hence why I'm pretty comfortable with killing him.

And frankly, to be honest....This is selfish of me, but I was pretty sure this was the only thing that would get me interested in this game again.

[Gorgon]

Wow - that was a fast lynch. DS didn't even get a chance to claim, much less explain anything else. I was expecting a pressure bandwagon to get the guy to talk, not an outright lynch. If DS turns up town, everyone on that wagon needs to be examined to death.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

I wanna get this in before the thread locks for night.

Here's the game I was referencing at the beginning of d2. BillyTwilight was the false leader, and I called him out d1. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... hlight=483

The difference between Than and DS, for me, was the length of time that was allowed for a case to build. Than's case was pretty well fleshed-out by the time that I voted for him, and I was confident that he was the best choice, given other options, for reasons that I posted repeatedly. I felt that the best way to gain information in general for the town, given our stall at that point in time, was to move to a lynch and see what we learn from that and NKs.

DS's case went from first vote to lynch in about a page. I may have wanted to move the game forward in general, but DS was lynched too damn fast. Flat-out, guys. He never had a chance, and it should be noted that he did the same thing that I did- why did you all give me a chance to explain and talk and not him? Or were you looking for an excuse to lynch him, as Than has explicitly stated and I strongly suspect DLS of taking the opportunity to do.

This whole lynch is fishy, I say. Majorly fishy.

Well, I was the one that was pushing to see Nudude's investigation on DS, under the assumption that if left to his own devices, DS wouldn't say anything incriminating. Unfortunatly, he did, as inconsistant as his action might have been. I agree with you about how it was too fast, but I didn't think he was going to get hammered considering the small conversation we had about waiting, and he said he was tired of the game anyway, he might aswell have just voted himself out.

In that case, if DS comes out town, my suspect is Thanatos, if he's scum, my suspect is Nudude for D3.

[Nudude]

As I've said numerous times DLS, if you wanted to see an investigation on DS, there was nothing stopping you from doing it. I wanted to hear what DS had to say, and I said as much, and I had every intention of asking him a few hard questions, specifically why he was so loud at the beginning of the day, and so quiet near the end. I was suspicious of how much he focused on my investigation of you, and how vocal he was, just to then vanish during my other investigations.

I wasn't the one to hammer him, and there were four other people who kept their vote on him at L-1, and that includes yourself.

Having said that, I'm not trying to distance myself from this lynch. At the end of the day, DS had become a hardcore lurker, and I made my stance on lurkers clear earlier this game, though I would have liked to have gotten more information out of him first.

Your focusing on me alot, and I feel like your taking my investigation of you far too personally, or maybe your just trying to deflect attention from the fact you also voted for DS. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

I said I was not going to do the investigation becuase I can't deal with DS anymore, and I wanted a 3rd parties take on him.....

[Nudude]

And I have to trust your telling the truth, just like you should consider trusting me when I say that I wanted to hear what DS had to say first. Is it really that hard to believe?

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

I don't so much as doubt that it's true, as much as I see it simply as a ploy to not do your investigation.

But like you said, guess we'll find out tomorrow.

[Nudude]

Not investigating is a ploy? What possible agenda could I forward by not investigating DS?

[liamcool]

Not investigating is a ploy? What possible agenda could I forward by not investigating DS?

That you two are alligned in some way?

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

Not investigating is a ploy? What possible agenda could I forward by not investigating DS?

That you two are alligned in some way?

Exactly.

[Thanatos]

Not investigating is a ploy? What possible agenda could I forward by not investigating DS?

That you two are alligned in some way?

Exactly.

It'll be interesting, then, to find out DS's Alignment. Or, at least role. Hell, maybe you're masons.

[Nudude]

Why would I keep my scum buddy at L-1 when I had every reason to take it off?

"Ah" some of you think "You did that to distance yourself!". So I distance myself from him by keeping him at L-1, but then shoot myself in the foot by avoiding investigating him?

Wouldn't it make more sense for me to do it the other way around? Take him off L-1, and conduct an investigation, which has a much lower risk?

Now, try stay with me on this one. Maybe, just maybe, it's because I wanted to hear what he had to say first?

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

It's all WIFOM. Being "low risk" and taking off your vote would still have been suspicious to me. I was suspisious of you the moment I realized you weren't going to do the investigation when you said you were. It has nothing to do with my personal feelings about you or your investigation on me, frankly I don't have any. You are the least of my worries when it comes to trying to hurt my feelings. DS is my problem. Anyway, taking off the vote and investigating him would have looked like you were trying to give him a chance to explain himself and get off of the hook as a means to save your scum buddy. Basically, you answered your own question, so here is another one:

Where is our Mod?


PS

"I vote assholes first"

Take that as you will. To be honest, I feel no problem with getting him out of the game, even if we do loose. He made this game suck for me. The best time I had was when he wasn't even here.

Any one who has anything to say about that, will officially know how I felt when DS basically said that same bullshit about DT, and no one said anything to him except me (and kind of HeH, who was really the only one making any sense through out everything and he died N1.) So now, even if we have the time, or during D3, I don't even want to hear it, cause all I'm gonna say is "Well, why did DS get away with it?" The fact that it's D2, and we have a higher chance of loosing is not a reason to me. The bottem line is that you guys shouldn't have let DS get away with that nonsense in the first place. He should have been gone D1. I don't care what his allignment is. It's just not something I feel you should do, but if you guys are cool with it, then fuck it. When in Rome......

[Nudude]

It sounds like to me no matter what I did you would have been suspicious of me. I believe that the town's common sense will prevail, and accept that I simply wanted to hear what he had to say first over your WIFOM web of conspiracy, and that's the last I'll say on it. Feel free to have the last word.

Moving along.

I don't care to count how many times I've said this to you, but I'll say it again.

If you have (or had, in this case) a hunch, and you feel it is worth pursing, then investigate it and build a case. Stop expecting everyone else to do the work while you sit back. If you felt DS should have been lynched D1, then you should have said something and done some investigating D1 to support it.

You are quick to shoot holes in other peoples theories and investigations, and you had every chance to convince us to vote for DS by presenting a case, but you didn't. It's easier to point at us and say "You guys shouldn't have let him get away with it" than "I wish I had put more effort into showing everyone good reasons to vote for DS".