Open 670: Near Vanilla (Over)

[Creature]

Votecount 1.13

Votecount 1.13

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[0] BlueBloodedToffee
[0] hapahauli
[1] MagnaofIllusion - Elena Fisher
[0] KainTepes

[8] Lowell - MagnaofIllusion, BlueBloodedToffee, Hawk, Toto, Hiraki, nebula, Riley Cake, KainTepes [LYNCH]

[0] Hiraki
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[3] Sesq - Lil Uzi Vert, Music Box, Lowell
[1] nebula - Sesq
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: hapahauli

14 players are alive, therefore 8 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 13:10:00)

[Creature]

Lowell has been lynched, he was

Vanilla Town

.

Night 1 has started

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-13 12:05:00)

[Creature]

KainTepes has been killed, he was

Vanilla Town

.

Day 2 has started

Votecount 2.0

Votecount 2.0

[0] Lil Uzi Vert
[0] BlueBloodedToffee
[0] hapahauli
[0] MagnaofIllusion
[0] Hiraki
[0] Riley Cake
[0] Toto
[0] Sesq
[0] nebula
[0] Music Box
[0] Elena Fisher
[0] Hawk

[0] Nolynch

Not voting: Everybody

12 players are alive, therefore 7 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-02-27 12:20:00)

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Mod: I'll be v/LA till the 16th. Valentines Day.

[hapahauli]

VOTE: Elena Fischer

I think this is the appropriate lynch for today.

Simply put, Elena's not playing the same game as the rest of us. She has 72 posts and is "active", but is remarkably disengaged with the thread given her post-count. The scum-hunting to posting ratio is bad.

1) She provides justification for her town-reads, but very paltry justification for her scum-reads by comparison. Town-cases are very easy to make as mafia, since you already know who is town. Inventing reasons to call someone mafia is much harder. Elena's play reads a lot like this.

Consider her scumreads. You'll see that these reads are either weak, unjustified, or made with no conviction.

- She scum-reads BBT most of the early game, but never really gives any rationale about the reason for the read.
- She scum-reads neb for a few early game posts where neb seems "stubborn". Almost immediately afterwards, she discredits herself by offering to policy lynch Riley and claiming she has no strong scumreads.
- She scum-reads Manga for OMGUS and that other people have expressed suspicion of Magna, but haven't voted him.. Despite trying to form a last-minute wagon on magna, she doesn't put any effort into lobbying for votes on Magna.

This is all pretty weak. No conviction behind any of her posts.

Now look at the townreads. You'll see that these are pushed with much more conviction. Rationale is much better developed than the scumreads (although still can be suspect).

- Her town-read on Toto for being headstrong. Early, confident, and probably correct. A nice safe opinion.
- Early town-read on Hiraki.. Thinks that Hiraki is town for being "clueless" and because his defense is too weak. Also likes Hiraki's tone. This is just a very odd read. She is way too confident given the evidence.
- Thinks Sesq is clueless town. She pretty much treats Sesq as town in her interaction with Sesq, repeatedly calling Sesq dumb, and never entertaining the idea that Sesq could be mafia pushing an agenda. Again, a confident read.
- Her entire interaction with BBT. She scum-reads him, until she points out BBT's "soft-claim", then proceeds to never give an opinion on him ever again. Not only is it a stretch to call BBT's post a soft-claim, but Elena just dropping the subject completely is very fake.

2) Her EoD 1 play is extremely passive and useless. I've mentioned before that she votes Magna at the last minute, but really makes no attempt to push him. Even stranger is how she completely ignores the Lowell wagon forming. She clearly doesn't town-read Lowell, and town is dangerously close to a no-lynch. Yet she ignores helping the town consolidate on a wagon, votes Magna with this sequence:

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

Who said they would lynch this?

Re read

...and fucks off.

3) Her attitude to Riley... she seems very unnecessarily and un-provokedly hostile.

I will policy lynch Riley at any point in the game without question btw

Can I change my role pm to lyncher on Riley ty mod

What out-of-game context that Elena has for this is irrelevant. Elena just hates on her play and seems to have no interest whatsoever in interacting with her, and has no interest in having Riley play/post/whatever in a more tolerable manner. There's no point to her opinion other than antagonizing Riley and being a dick. I'd understand if they had gotten into a huge fight this game (townies can be dicks to other players all the time). But it's the coldness and detachment that reads like over-critical mafia to me here as opposed to over-emotional townie.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Elena

I have some things I need to read over and will probably have some questions coming soon as well but Elena looks like a fantastic lynch for D2.

[Elena Fisher]

You all lynched Lowell? Really....lol

[Elena Fisher]

My attitude towards Riley was a clear joke I thought that was clear.

[Elena Fisher]

Magna BBT are scum who's the 3rd?

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Magna
I have more chance of lynching this over BBT

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Lowell

Screw it. Flash wagon this scum. BBT I am counting on you to move your vote.

Let's not forget this beautiful gem of coaching

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Neb

We lynch this then BBT.

Elena can you talk me through both of these reads at the time - specifically, why were you scum reading me but willing to move onto Nebula?

[Elena Fisher]

I had a sr on Neb (still semi do but not to the extent of you/Magna) and also one on you my sr on you was stronger yes but Neb had a much higher chance of getting lynched so I voted Neb.

[hapahauli]

I haven't seen so much wall posting (or quote walls) in a thread before it looks like there's a lot but maybe it's just me taking in the info wrong. don't really have any confident scumreads at the moment have a tr on Toto and Hiraki

@ Elena

Few things I need answers for.

1) You seem critical of the Lowell wagon, but did nothing to dissuade it. You were clearly in the thread when the last-minute wagon was going on. That leads me to believe that you just didn't care about Lowell getting lynched. All this pushing on Magna now is nice, but was sorely missing from your play EoD 1.
2) Your Hiraki read. It does not look credible that you can read Hiraki as strongly town as you do given what you posted. Like one of your points is that his defense is "too weak to be mafia", which is not great.
3) Your read progression on BBT is suspect. You basically ignored him after his "soft-claim" all of Day 1.

[Elena Fisher]

I haven't seen so much wall posting (or quote walls) in a thread before it looks like there's a lot but maybe it's just me taking in the info wrong. don't really have any confident scumreads at the moment have a tr on Toto and Hiraki

@ Elena

Few things I need answers for.

1) You seem critical of the Lowell wagon, but did nothing to dissuade it. You were clearly in the thread when the last-minute wagon was going on. That leads me to believe that you just didn't care about Lowell getting lynched. All this pushing on Magna now is nice, but was sorely missing from your play EoD 1.
2) Your Hiraki read. It does not look credible that you can read Hiraki as strongly town as you do given what you posted. Like one of your points is that his defense is "too weak to be mafia", which is not great.
3) Your read progression on BBT is suspect. You basically ignored him after his "soft-claim" all of Day 1.

1) I was not around for the Lowell wagon at all or I would've stopped it. What makes you think I was?
2) I understand what Hiraki's anger is coming from given I experienced the same thing and I understand the logic behind his reads what is this "too weak to be mafia" post I don't remember ever making a post like that.
3) I didn't think I could get him lynched so I went for my other sr's that had much higher chance of getting lynched.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Hapa

– Have you read the game in full? If so why no comment on Sesq, Nebula and the Lowell wagon alignment wise? If not why not?

Want to hear what some of my Town reads (Toto, Sesq) have to say before moving forward with a vote.

--

VOTE: Magna
I have more chance of lynching this over BBT

It’s cute that you think this …

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I had a sr on Neb (still semi do but not to the extent of you/Magna) and also one on you my sr on you was stronger yes but Neb had a much higher chance of getting lynched so I voted Neb.

Can you explain why you think I'm scum then?

[Elena Fisher]

What can I say Magna given seeing you in other games I like me a challenge.

[hapahauli]

1)

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

When you made this post, there were 5-6 votes on Lowell. This means you either weren't reading the thread at all when you plopped your vote down on Magna, or you're lying.

2) Ah sorry, that's my bad. I assumed this post:

Well that's a pretty weak defense if they're scum. I'll do a re read again soon with that in mind

...was taling about Hiraki, not Sesq. Ignore this.

3). I understand not pushing a lynch on him. But to ignore him entirely is suspect. You clearly read him as mafia, but put no effort into convincing other people.

[Elena Fisher]

Information.

Why are you trying to look busy?

If you look at the context of this question it was mostly just normal talk but then you turned it around into shade throwing when ironically the only one trying to look busy given half your iso is "Why do you tr/sr/think _____"

Soft-claims mean jack-shit.

I'd lynch a soft-claim in a heartbeat.

You say soft claims mean jack shit when you soft claimed yourself so what's the point of soft claiming if it means jack shit

VOTE: Lowell

Lowell is at L-1...someone hammer please.

VOTE: Elena

I have some things I need to read over and will probably have some questions coming soon as well but Elena looks like a fantastic lynch for D2.

^ and opportunistic votes all around

[Elena Fisher]

1)

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

When you made this post, there were 5-6 votes on Lowell. This means you either weren't reading the thread at all when you plopped your vote down on Magna, or you're lying.

2) Ah sorry, that's my bad. I assumed this post:

Well that's a pretty weak defense if they're scum. I'll do a re read again soon with that in mind

...was taling about Hiraki, not Sesq. Ignore this.

3). I understand not pushing a lynch on him. But to ignore him entirely is suspect. You clearly read him as mafia, but put no effort into convincing other people.

1) I didn't see him having votes at all I voted and then went back to work I came back and Lowell was lynched to my shock
3) If you think me ignoring him is suspect then I can't really change your outlook can I? A few times I forgot he was here but most of the time I was busy trying to convince others why some people are town.

[hapahauli]

@Hapa

– Have you read the game in full? If so why no comment on Sesq, Nebula and the Lowell wagon alignment wise? If not why not?

Want to hear what some of my Town reads (Toto, Sesq) have to say before moving forward with a vote.

--

VOTE: Magna
I have more chance of lynching this over BBT

It’s cute that you think this …

Yes, I'm caught up.

Elena is my top scumread by far. I'm not going to post things that distract the town from how bad she looks unless I feel the town needs to hear something.

What do you think of my case? Surely you don't need the opinions on Toto/Sesq to tell me what you think about Elena.

[Elena Fisher]

Would looking at a scum game of mine help you hap? I think you'll clearly see the differences.

[hapahauli]

1) I didn't see him having votes at all I voted and then went back to work I came back and Lowell was lynched to my shock

I mean... how could you miss that? There were two full pages of votes on Lowell before you posted, plus a ton of suspicion on him leading up to that. Also, how could you be critical of the Lowell lynch when it seems like you're barely keeping up with the game at all? What was your read on Lowell EoD1?

3) If you think me ignoring him is suspect then I can't really change your outlook can I? A few times I forgot he was here but most of the time I was busy trying to convince others why some people are town.

You can atleast help me understand your thought process. But the second sentence there is the problem I have with your play. You put a disproportionate amount of more effort into justifying town-reads than pushing your scumreads.

[hapahauli]

Would looking at a scum game of mine help you hap? I think you'll clearly see the differences.

I'll take a look myself. If you could take the time to link your past few scum games (i'll definitely need more than 1), it would be helpful.