Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Fro99er]

Wheme why the f did you offer to out your role at like L-3 or L-4?

This is my first game as a role other than VT. Didn't know if I should or not, didn't think it was a big deal to ask if I should or not

Town odd-night rolestopper should never be eager to claim

[Fro99er]

Wheme why the f did you offer to out your role at like L-3 or L-4?

This is my first game as a role other than VT. Didn't know if I should or not, didn't think it was a big deal to ask if I should or not

Town odd-night rolestopper should never be eager to claim

especially on an odd day.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Wheme

[WhemeStar]

UNVOTE:

that could very easily be a scum role. OTOH, scum have daychat...why wouldn't they coach Wheme more and tell him not to seem so eager to claim?

With the wagon on me they are doing a bad job on coaching me then.

Hmm, did I misread your post? Looked on wiki and no clue what "OTOH" stands for.

[WhemeStar]

UNVOTE:

that could very easily be a scum role. OTOH, scum have daychat...why wouldn't they coach Wheme more and tell him not to seem so eager to claim?

With the wagon on me they are doing a bad job on coaching me then.

Hmm, did I misread your post? Looked on wiki and no clue what "OTOH" stands for.

My post was sarcasm btw. Don't take that seriously.

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Wheme

So you unvoted me because I claimed my role, then voted me for claiming my role.

[Aj The Epic]

TBH if I was scum, I'd be taking advantage of Wheme floundering for as much town points as I can get

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Wheme

So you unvoted me because I claimed my role, then voted me for claiming my role.

Not at all.

I unvoted you so I could think. Not for claiming your role.

I voted you because after thinking about it, your behavior and claim make no sense as town.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Wheme

So you unvoted me because I claimed my role, then voted me for claiming my role.

In fact, when I unvoted you I even said "could very easily be a scum role"

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Wheme

So you unvoted me because I claimed my role, then voted me for claiming my role.

Not at all.

I unvoted you so I could think. Not for claiming your role.

I voted you because after thinking about it, your behavior and claim make no sense as town.

Mind answering me about what OTOH means? Also, lets say I get lynched, who do you suspect when I flip green?

[Fro99er]

on the other hand

[ECMitchell]

TBH if I was scum, I'd be taking advantage of Wheme floundering for as much town points as I can get

"Look at what I could be doing but am not!"

What's the point of you saying this? Are you legitimately saying you should be seen as more town for this?

I'm still comfortable lynching Wheme. In their claim though it looks like the role name was copied and pasted, including the extra period and all. Intentionally formatted that way? Would copying from the role PM like that even be allowed?

[Aj The Epic]

Are you stupid? I'm currently scumreading Wheme and have been vocal about it. My intention was to explain the lack of help.

[ECMitchell]

Are you stupid? I'm currently scumreading Wheme and have been vocal about it. My intention was to explain the lack of help.

Yet your vote remains elsewhere, because...?

[WhemeStar]

TBH if I was scum, I'd be taking advantage of Wheme floundering for as much town points as I can get

"Look at what I could be doing but am not!"

What's the point of you saying this? Are you legitimately saying you should be seen as more town for this?

I'm still comfortable lynching Wheme. In their claim though it looks like the role name was copied and pasted, including the extra period and all. Intentionally formatted that way? Would copying from the role PM like that even be allowed?

Lol gtfo, "he used a period and made his role green! Obviously copied it from somewhere"

[WhemeStar]

That post has to be one of the dumbest reasons to say "I'm still comfortable voting him" Next time just say your still comfortable being a sheep to froggy

[Aj The Epic]

Are you stupid? I'm currently scumreading Wheme and have been vocal about it. My intention was to explain the lack of help.

Yet your vote remains elsewhere, because...?

Ya know, the logical fucking progression is "I scumread someone else harder"

[ECMitchell]

Lol gtfo, "he used a period and made his role green! Obviously copied it from somewhere"

That post has to be one of the dumbest reasons to say "I'm still comfortable voting him" Next time just say your still comfortable being a sheep to froggy

Clearly you either misunderstood my post or are panicking—or both. I didn't point out the text formatting as a reason to vote you but as a moment of hesitation: "What if he actually

is

town and he copied this from his role PM?" I'm still trying to figure out in the rules if that's even permitted; I presume it'd be fine to copy the name of the role itself when claiming like this, but nothing else from the role PM?

It's also clear from the bold you haven't been paying much attention. My vote has been on you for quite a while and far before Fro99er's.

Are you stupid?

I'm currently scumreading Wheme and have been vocal about it. My intention was to explain the lack of help.

Yet your vote remains elsewhere, because...?

Ya know, the logical fucking progression is

"I scumread someone else harder"

@Lowell, by the way, the bold text is an example of someone "flipping their shit" over nothing.

[gerryoat]

bruh... did you really claim that fast lol. I'll actually reread and give my reads in a bit.

rolestopper is usually a maf role i think tho. unless we have like a vig or something..

[Fro99er]

bruh... did you really claim that fast lol. I'll actually reread and give my reads in a bit.

rolestopper is usually a maf role i think tho. unless we have like a vig or something..

if it's a vig that's all the more reason for it to be scum, because then it serves as a mafia protective.

If we have a cop, that's also more reason for it to be scum, because then it serves as making a buddy untargetable, like an ascetic.

Town rolestopper makes sense too as a protective to stop scum kills, especially if scum have something like a rolecop/Neapolitan/vanilla cop, because then not only can it stop a kill but it can help stop scum from their investigation.

It's all setup spec. What I don't like is the urgency on an odd day to out himself as an odd-night power role. It makes zero sense as town to want to claim it as far away as like L-3 (he did claim at L-2, but asked about it even sooner).

[Aj The Epic]

@Lowell, by the way, the bold text is an example of someone "flipping their shit" over nothing.

Oh we playing this game? Because I got another good example.

TBH if I was scum, I'd be taking advantage of Wheme floundering for as much town points as I can get

"Look at what I could be doing but am not!"

What's the point of you saying this? Are you legitimately saying you should be seen as more town for this?

I'm still comfortable lynching Wheme. In their claim though it looks like the role name was copied and pasted, including the extra period and all. Intentionally formatted that way? Would copying from the role PM like that even be allowed?

Jaja talk about preemptive shit flipping.

[Fro99er]

offering to claim early as a protective is objectively bad town play. you want to stop a night kill if you are town, not draw the night kill. ESPECIALLY to have urgency to claim that on an odd day for an odd-night power. It's a bit more understandable if it were day 2 and he couldn't use it going into N2.

I think he'd know that as a town rolestopper.

Ergo, scum is the more likely possibility.

[Hawk]

Hey guys I'm back. Sorry I had received some very bad news on Saturday after getting home so I didn't get to finish what I wanted to post. Lots has been added since then and I'm going to try and get back into a regular routine and catchup. Gonna do some ISO digging and outline posts then form a readlist off that so this is the first of a few posts. This one is for Sheep who at this moment before digging into anyone else is my vote for the day. He bothered me slightly early and then over the day it just got worse.

I don't understand your reply there, here's the timeline - you arrive in the game and say this;

I havent played with sheep b4 obv, but he strikes me as a person that would defend himself awkardly as either alignment, so while i think towns could be pinged by his weird wordings, i dont rly think its scummy.

You then attack Uzi (one of my attackers) at this stage, you are effectively WKing me.

Later on, the wagon on me dissolves - at that point you shift your read to a "might be scum" sort of read.

I say that the theory scum plan was to WK (which you did) and then, later, when you realize the wagon won't bull rush through it's viable to have me as a lynch option by seeing how maybe I'm scum (which you also did). That is a coherent comment which is as much of a slip as my last comment called a slip. If something looks weird it's because we're not talking cleanly to each other - not because it's a slip.

First instance of kinda discrediting and wanting to shade throw towards someone that I don't like. This reads as a scumread because he thinks that WK is some kind of scumslip. He references this again later talking about Naomi. Also he makes more assumptions here and does so in his tone a lot. Note: "I say that the theory scum plan was to WK (which you did)" see how he doesn't give a chance to discredit the idea by even beginning to think that Terata was doing anything else. If its apparently he was WK you shouldn't have to clarify because its apparent. If it isn't apparent then its your opinion that the behavior is WK, and not fact, I don't like this tone unless someone is downright denying their behavior was one thing when it could be another, and even then it's kinda scummy behavior to deal in such absolutes this early on. I mean it's D1 and whether he was WKing you or not won't be apparent or relevant until later.

I never dodge questions as town. Never. (sarcasm for those that don't get it)

Do you misrep as town?

No, but I can misunderstand as town. I didn't even read that part of your wall because I am sick of your walls and your demands that I answer you.

Either way, your original logic around Lowell doesn't make sense. If he didn't want to sheep, it does not necessarily imply he would have been ok with voting there had there been zero votes there.

You made a leap in logic to throw shade.

So you admit you might be misunderstanding me - but your case on me is based on your understanding of my actions, and you don't wish to read my posts nor discuss anything with me?

Here's some shade - if this is how you play as town, it's not good. The very concept of the game is about communication and correctly understanding people to get reads on them. Why are you a proponent of your method instead?

"The very concept of the game is about communication and correctly understanding people to get reads on them." I feel like this discredit towards Fro99ers case on Sheep was him attempting to dissolve the entire case in one swoop but its not that simple. Fro99ers case on sheep starts because he makes an assumption about Lowell's play and how Lowell's future play will play out. This in any case means that Sheep is already not playing well as town by his own definition. He doesn't take the time to communicate and discuss whats going on he makes assumptions about about others players play and reads them off of it. (also he entirely focuses on scum slips and things that are scummy which is fine to scum hunt but he has very few town reads from what I can tell and if he does they're very slight and he always is doubly suspicious that it may have alternative motives, Ex: Terata and later Naomi.)

Even here he doesn't take fro99ers admittance of a misunderstanding as anything town but a chance to turn the table and accuse fro99er of scummy behavior.

@Frogger - The idea that he would never sheep does support A and B cleanly and without effort.

Why not though?

If someone will never sheep

, which means they never follow anyone elses' thoughts, they aren't cooperating ever.
Sure, reads might align - but they are openly stating zero cooperation unless I'm missing something.

More assumptions. If someone will NEVER sheep. He opens up here that his logic makes sense if Lowell will never sheep. As town why deal that greatly in absolutes? I don't like any of this, compounded with everything Fro99er and Terata had said at the time about hsi behavior this just adds another layer of assumption to the mix in his logic. This reads to me as Close minded town playing poorly or scum trying to sound absolute about his cases and unwavering. Either way I'm okay with a lynch here like I said.

The leap in logic was about lack of cooperation - I explained why it makes sense to me. It has nothing to do about whether he may or may not have eventually been okay voting there - AND I NEVER SAID IT DID.

Here he defends it again saying that it makes sense if Lowell will never sheep a player, which just can't be determined. Sometimes you sheep someone. Especially in RVS. He also says that he never said it had anything to do with whether he may or may not have eventually been comfortable voting there, but your assumption was that if he's not willing to vote because its a sheep then he will be uncooperative which in of itself is a contradiction because if he may or may not eventually be okay with voting there wouldn't that at that point make him *gasp* cooperative? Like you're saying its about cooperation but if your case is built on the assumption that Lowell never sheeps therefor is uncooperative or difficult to cooperate with then your case does matter about him eventually voting one way or the other. Because he in your mind is either never sheeping meaning he has to reach conclusions of his own accord and then vote with town or never reach those conclusions and not vote cooperatively. Your logic deals in so many absolutes that it sucks. Like even if you are town (I don't think you are) your logic sucks balls.

Probably scum for not even attempting to understand my play. Just shouting MISREP and YOU DIDNT READ

So you agree it's scummy not to try to understand someone?

More attempts to take words and just reverse them to throw shade. You're not interested in finding out if fro99er pushing on you is town!fro99er or scum!fro99er just interested in discrediting the case.

You continue to push the misrep and lie angle, when I pointed out I simply misread. Misreading is different from intentionally misrepping or lying.

You need to make a case on me that doesn't involve me not reading, thinking I misrepped, or thinking I lied.

So you agree that you misrepped/misunderstood me?
But your case doesn't change?
Okay.

Same thing here

Vote: Hawk

Would also do Lowell, but I'll sheep AJ for the moment.
I actually think Frogger's defense is bad enough I'm reading it as town - the point being if he doesn't see the hypocrisy, it's not scum hypocrisy whether it exists or not.

Okay, my current scumreads don't exactly include you but this jump at the end is fucking atrocious. You go from 'let's talk' to voting frogger, who you claim to want to have a discussion with. You're so incredibly nitpicky especially in latter pages about what frogger said and not about what frogger's DONE. Because you attacking doesn't really solve anything Frogger had pushed for the last couple of pages.

The points you claim I'm being nitpicky about are the same thing's Frogger's done.

Note in his last post - he isn't admitting to lying or misrepping - but he is admitting to misunderstanding, which is the same thing just depending on whether he is town or scum.
That's the point, and I needed to figure out the hypocrisy to get a read through it, when the slot I'm presented with is resorting to ignoring, rage, and yelling to present their case - I don't know another way to sort through it. If you have suggestions for future games I'd love to hear them..

Here Sheep actually starts sounding like he's willing to backoff of Fro99er but only once another lynch is being called up. Yeah I know it looks bad because its mine. But also note his tone here. Right before the bolded portion he says fro99ers defense is bad and hypocrisy. Town hypocrisy but hypocrisy non the less. If AJ's points about nitpicky ness are the same as fro99er's then its not just hypocrisy but its justified here? Like you justify fro99ers case and don't deny it but instead decide to say that engaging back in the manner that you are is your only way to sort through it. Like if you understand it's a scummy way to fight back a case then maybe you need to find another way to fix it. And to your defense you do ask for suggestions for future games but to be honest there are a million ways you can engage back with fro99er rather than sit there and just go over in ridiculous detail what fro99er has said and done instead of just presenting yourself or your logic in a manner that answers his questions. Like you never take a second to just let it go you always have to have the FoS shifted in another direction other than your own. Start there. Don't end every response with a question that throws shade back at the attacking player because to town players that seems super scummy and to scummy players they can just play off it and set you up to look worse.

She kind of did the same thing to me, when I did my WK tell - even though I ruled her as town and said the tell didn't apply to her she seemed to get a little aggro about it.
Then again, I recall Tetara kinda doing the same thing, so seems like a thin scumtell, yeah?

Having a hard time parsing a lot of the other cases - they mostly seemed to be based on hypocrisy (which I feel has been a cornerstone of every case so far) and I also think a lot of people are mxing up hypocrisy with 'logic I don't understand/don't agree with and don't care to try to' which seems really different to me.

My scum reads remain about the same, I'll remind people that I've had issues with Chaos for some time now, just in case anyone wants to have a complaint about me hopping on that wagon if it catches much more steam But I'm happy with it and Hawk as frontrunners.

Didn't see much else bothering me till here. So earlier you thought Terata could have scum motivations towards WKing you. Now you say Naomi is doing something similar. and that you have always had a problem with Chaos and you don't like me. So the people you've had problems with and have wanted to vote/agree with wagons or even lynches on if we just take those at face value and don't give them anything more than a scum lean are.

Naomi, Terata, Choas, Fro99er, Hawk, and Lowell. You realize thats 6 different players. Not to mention anyone else that I missed or maybe didn't see where you deflect they're approach at you at all. Like I'm fairly certain Uzi and Gerry have been noted somewhere in your ISO I just don't feel like quoting it all.

I don't even get the point either of you are having right now - I agree Chaos is scum, I don't like either of your cases overmuch...so where's the fire. I could say I think Chaos is scum because the trees told me and that your cases are made out of pixie dust and marshmallows - you both clearly like to mock me as having no logic, so I don't know why you're annoyed that I don't love your logic, even if we're at the same destination (and in Frogger's case, ignoring what I've said).

And you're on Chaos but not voting him... Like... uhhh....I'm stopping here because I'm just done with Sheep. His ISO is very bad. It reads very bad to me. I highlighted some parts. and I still have 11 other players to do this for. Or at least look at before making a reads list. So yeah

VOTE: Sheep

[WhemeStar]

bruh... did you really claim that fast lol. I'll actually reread and give my reads in a bit.

rolestopper is usually a maf role i think tho. unless we have like a vig or something..

It's town this game tho

[WhemeStar]

offering to claim early as a protective is objectively bad town play. you want to stop a night kill if you are town, not draw the night kill. ESPECIALLY to have urgency to claim that on an odd day for an odd-night power. It's a bit more understandable if it were day 2 and he couldn't use it going into N2.

I think he'd know that as a town rolestopper.

Ergo, scum is the more likely possibility.

So your willing to lynch me even though mafia will probably kill me tonight? Why not lynch someone, let me do my job tonight, and lynch me tomorrow since N2 I'm useless