Unright, 29 wrote:When townies start doing joking uber-scummy posts, nothing can really be learned from it.
I think this was a slip. It was hashed out, and then the wagon seems to have ended basically due to distraction. So I took a close look at how that wagon ended.
It starts when CKD calls Unright on it. ABR disregards it, Nekka’s response is hard to judge - it’s like he’s explaining it away as a newbie error; Jordan calls him on it and votes Unright; CKD then votes Unright for it. We then get an unmistakable defense of Unright from DP who says
DP wrote:I agree [with Unright] completely. I would lynch those doing this day one on principle because they are counterproductive - and may well be scum.
Major FOS to those voting Unright based on his post.
DP completely ignores the scumtell being discussed of Unright calling them "townies."
BM then focuses on Jordan saying
BM wrote:I'm not sure i like how you latched on to someone elses argument completely in order to validate a BW vote.
Unvote, Vote: Jordan”
ABR then calls out BM; BM defends himself; Unright then says
Unright wrote:Albert B. Rampage is right. JordanA24's suspicion and vote were his own and were first. He wasn't latching onto anyone else's train of thought or jumping on any bandwagons.
unvote
vote: Battle Mage
This is inaccurate, and is a poor excuse for a vote. Looks pretty obviously like his goal is to distract from his scum tell. Looks like panicky scum flailing to get out of the spotlight. CKD calls Unright on this and says “Seems pretty close to me...I think Jordan was agreeing with me. Why are you putting words into ABR's mouth? ABR didnt say that Jordan's suspicions was his own, he only said Jordan didnt bandwagon...” ABR agrees and votes Unright.
Post 48 Nekka once again disregards what is being pointed out as a scumtell and gives Unright a peptalk about the usefulness of the random stage. Gage agrees with Nekka and says he thinks Unright would come up town, while undermining this by saying his scumdar is borked. We then get distraction by the masons as ABR and Gage discuss where Gage has played. DP follows this up with “I'm fine with lynching any of the self-voters on day one.”
Jordan calls him on it and votes DP. ABR agrees and votes DP.
Unright then manages to further distract with a bunch of questions about self voting, the random stage, green/blue etc.
MoS, who has yet to weigh in on Unright at all, ignores the issue entirely and votes Jordan for his DP vote and FOSes ABR for agreeing. I didn't like this post at all. MOS clarifies in post 62 that his reasons for this are meta re: DP's play. Odd that in post 58 he gave no indication that he had meta reasons for his argument. Rather, he spoke as though it was something Jordan and ABR should know. Here's the post:
MoS wrote:Jordan is stretching like a mother----. It is *NEVER* too early to be serious about lynching. Just because DP is willing to lynch a self-voter does not mean that he's trying rush the day, nor does it mean that he's willing to let everyone blindly bandwagon without giving their own opinions. You're bullshitting us this early? Nice try.
Unvote, Vote: Jordan
FoS: ABR for following him.
If his reasons for thinking it’s a nulltell are meta, why would he assume Jordan and ABR should know this to the point that it merits a vote? And why wouldn't he mention that at the time he voted? Then, when he has to explain that his argument only holds water if you have the meta he has, why doesn't he unvote? Not only does he not unvote, he holds the vote until now and is still voting Jordan. For what, exactly? For not having the meta on DP that MoS has?
BM brings it back to Unright in Post 70 saying
BM wrote:wow buddying up ftl! and even better, you managed to completely misinterpret someone's comments in the process.
gg defensive-you are blatant scum.
Unvote, Vote: Unright
The masons (ABR and then Gage) disagree with BM and start a bandwagon on him.
BM wrote:^This was the post in which you blatantly misinterpreted not only what ABR was saying, but also you completely misconstrued the situation. Its interesting how you don't like it when i point out your scummy play, but don't bat an eyelid when CKD and ABR himself attack you for the exact same reason.
These are valid arguments and while reading I'm thinking "Good! Finally someone brings it back to Unright who managed to slide out from under the microscope."
But then in the next post we get MoS again, telling BM to cool off. Totally disregards BM's arguments and undermines it by making BM look hot headed.
DP rereads. Says of Unright
DP wrote:4. Unright
I like his posts so far. Reasonable and trying to get things going for the town.
Votes ABR. ABR points out that DP’s analysis of BM was very similar to ABR’s but ABR earned a vote for it, while it was explained away as merely BM’s style. DP's response is that there were differences between his analyses of the 2 players. Yes, but too subtle of differences. The point stands against DP.
Porochaz comes out of nowhere after virtually no content; latches onto this in 99 and votes DP without giving further comment on the game.
DP then explains how easily he can be talked out of his ABR vote
DP wrote:I don't know you. AFAIK I never played with you. The same goes for BM, but I have read a lot about him in various threads. Not about you - at least not that I remember. Howver, if the other players confirm that you are just as loose a cannon as BM, I will downgrade you on my list of suspects.
CKD unvotes Unright with a hearty “not feeling it right now”; BM appears to obey MoS' order to drop it, and the wagon is forgotten, never to be revisited.
My feeling about the whole thing is there were good, legitimate reasons to suspect Unright and if he was a townie, scum would've made sure that wagon succeeded (and it wouldn't have been hard). It only makes sense for it to successfully be swept under the rug if Unright is scum.
vote: Unright
Continuing on, 111 & 168 Gage and ABR claim masons. I see no possibility that it was a scum gambit (mostly because I cannot fathom ABR bailing out Gage in this case if they were scum buddies. Rather, I think he'd have let him go down in flames). So I believe both of them are protown masons.
244 Nekka comes off pro-town. Can’t see scum saying they like someone for thinking they’re pro-town.
249 MOS declares BM protown and says those voting him are idiots
256 ckd follows mos; unvotes BM
333 Vollkan extremely noncommittal – nearly everyone at 50% (neutral) Highest he goes is 65% on BM, while giving several reasons to think he’s town. Seems too safe – no real stand on anyone. 341 calls pete d noncommittal. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
372 vollkan votes BM to “kickstart” the game. He’s careful to not give real reasons or take a stand – it’s a vote that’ll be easy to back out of. Then fosses Bookitty rather than voting. Looks self conscious, noncommittal – playing extremely safe and not taking a firm stand on anyone.
I also think there's a good chance that Porochaz is scum. Has posted practically no content. When he has voted, it's only after latching onto someone else's argument. He has done no scum hunting and has been lying low, not accusing anyone or stating his suspicions.
Porochaz wrote:As for the matter at hand, ABR and Gage could be scum together... more likely newbie silliness and albert saving lives. However Im in heaps of games and I still know exactly is going on in each and Ive been here all of about 6 weeks. If not read then post or do wha I do read whilst posting. This conbined with the over reaction early on unvote vote Battle Mage
This post is one of his most content filled. A bad argument that ABR and Gage could be scum buddies, then disregarding his own opinion and saying "more likely newbie silliness and albert saving lives." He then places an odd, unjustified BM vote. Not long after, we get:
Porochaz wrote:oh and unvote With me making a mistake about the over reacting and allowing for a mistake in the reading I think it would be a mistake for me to continue voting BM
He then gives several nothing posts, lurking in plain sight while saying he needs to read. After his reread we get:
Porochaz wrote:K having read over I feel BM is most scummy, however he is now at L-2 and I really dont have much more than a "feeling" that he is scummy... and in my book that isnt enough to lynch him so I won't vote unless theres some sort of deadline that I totally overlooked.
So the entire game he hasn't given a good reason to think anyone is scum. Even when he latches onto someone else's argument, it's weak.
Scumlist
Unright
Porochaz
DP
vollkan
MoS
I'm leaning town on Bookitty. I got several protown reads from Nekka and don't think his part in distracting from the Unright wagon was intentional. Looks more like he thought Gage was making newbie errors rather than scum coaching scum. Bookitty's play has felt town, and the arguments against her right now are pretty weak.
Everyone else is on my town list, with ABR, Gage and BM the most confirmed.