Mafia 72: Peril in Panama - Game over!

[Dragon Phoenix]

Vote Mastermind of Sin

. Of course.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Oooh! Oooh! Self-voting = major scum tell.

Unvote Mastermind of Sin
Vote Nekka-Lucifer

[Dragon Phoenix]

When townies start doing joking uber-scummy posts, nothing can really be learned from it. And if you can't learn anything from it then it's useless.

I agree completely. I would lynch those doing this day one on principle because they are counterproductive - and may well be scum.

Major FOS to those voting Unright based on his post.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I'm fine with lynching any of the self-voters on day one.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Self-voting is by definition counterproductive. One of the clues you will have later in the game is to see whom people have voted for. This is nullified by these stupid self-votes. On day one, there is obviously not one clear camdidate for a lynch. So I'm all for taking out counterproductive players. This includes self-voters, post restriction fakers, and so on. I have never sugegsted that we now must all rush and string up a self-voter wihout any discussion. But I will be happy to see one of the self-voters swing at the end of the day.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I've been rather busy the last few days, will do a re-read in the weekend.

[Dragon Phoenix]

It involves more than just reading.

Impressions so far:

1. Battle Mage
Obnoxious, voting all over the place, early bandwagoner without reason. Still, I gather that is his style.
2. mandalorian
Only one post, no reading yet.
3. Gage
Second self-voter. I made clear what I think of that. Post 49 sets off my scumdar by its phrasing.
4. Unright
I like his posts so far. Reasonable and trying to get things going for the town.
5. Nekka-Lucifer
First self-voter. I made clear what I think of that.
6. Kakeng
Post 75 is as unhelpful for town as they come, certainly at this stage. No serious contribution yet.
7. JordanA24
Post 34 does not sit well with me. Scummy vibes. Post 53 deliberately misrepresenting my opinion does not help either.
8. richman99
Lurking in broad daylight (post 85).
9. Mastermind of Sin
Pro-town vibes. Constructive post 58.
11. curiouskarmadog
Post 36 is as scummy as they come.
12. Porochaz
No reading yet.
13. Sir Tornado
Only one post, no reading yet.
14. Albert B. Rampage
Early bandwagoner without providing a reason. Duelling with Batlle Mage about minor issues. Do not like post 47. Do not like his hopping on in post 54 either (nothing to do with the fact that he votes me) and his stubborness in 59. Throws votes around all over the place.

Current assessment:
Pro-town: Unright, Mastermind of Sin
Neutral/No reading: Battle Mage, mandalorian, Porochaz, Sir Tornado
Scummy: Gage, Nekka-Lucifer, Kakeng, JordanA24, richman99, curiouskarmadog, Albert B. Rampage

All things considered, I am putting my money for the time being at

Unvote
Vote Albert B. Rampage

[Dragon Phoenix]

DP, that analysis was worryingly broad, you said that half of the players are "scummy".

I would have been really worried if there only had been a few.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Nope, don't expect too much refinement on day one.

[Dragon Phoenix]

You people need to learn how to read. There are similarities AND DIFFERENCES between what I said about BN and ABR.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I don't know you. AFAIK I never played with you. The same goes for BM, but I have read a lot about him in various threads. Not about you - at least not that I remember. Howver, if the other players confirm that you are just as loose a cannon as BM, I will downgrade you on my list of suspects.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I'll give ABR the benefit of the doubt for now, like BM, so no we go:

Unvote Albert B. Rampage
Vote JordanA24

[Dragon Phoenix]

Nope, you won the tie-breaker in my mind.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I thought you said that self-voting was a lynchable offense.

Nope. I said I would be happy to see a self-voter lynched. That is not the same.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I have a hard time believing that he's a real mason claiming with hardly any pressure.

I have a hard time believing that he's scum claming with hardly any pressure (although 2 player mason group is one of the safest claim for scum in a game this size).

I have a hard time trying to understand what all this blue and green gobbledigok is about.

In sum, Cage gives me a headache.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I have a hard time believing that he's a real mason claiming with hardly any pressure.

I have a hard time believing that he's scum claming with hardly any pressure (although 2 player mason group is one of the safest claim for scum in a game this size).

Since it is either the first or the second, I have decided that the second is more likely.

Vote Gage

[Dragon Phoenix]

Well, provided that the two of you are not scum together, this must have been one of the most stupid plays I have seen on day one for a very long time.

Unvote Gage

[Dragon Phoenix]

Where were we before this whole mess started?

Oh yes,

Vote JordanA24

[Dragon Phoenix]

That was at last a decent post.

Unvote JordanA24

There are several people now that I would not mind see swinging by the end of the day, because their absence would probably improve the overall game, and moreover they have a good chance of being scum as well. I will wait to see what the prodded ones come up with first.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I'm actually with BM on this one. His voting is at least premature and at worst stupid, but not scummy.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I think we also do not need to lynch a claimed mason at this stage.

[Dragon Phoenix]

hmm... DP-what are your thoughts on this?

On what?

like I said before, I want to see the non-posters or their replacements come in as well, or we are getting lurked to destruction as town.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Vote curiouskarmadog

The scummiest of the lot so far. Let's get some action.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Dragon Phoenix

: His "selfvote=scum, we must lynch them" tactic at the start was stupid <snip>.

The fact that you do not agree with it, does not make the tactics stupid.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I do contest that. In my book this is a perfectly valid tactic for day one and far superior to this random dice nonsense that has become so popular.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Stupid.
Then again, the whole dice throwing thing is bad for the game in my opinion (but that's getting us off-topic).

[Dragon Phoenix]

*snores*

[Dragon Phoenix]

Mod, at this pace the game will be finished by Christmas. 2008. How about a deadline?

[Dragon Phoenix]

According to your logic in that post, your vote should be on Jordan, not on me.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Mod, at this pace the game will be finished by Christmas. 2008. How about a deadline?

[Dragon Phoenix]

Seeing that we have already spent almost two months on it and are still waiting for any sign that day might come to an end, I sympathize with that.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Unvote curiouskarmadog
Vote JordanA24

Let's get a bandwagon rolling.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I did not agree with the bandwagon, but my gut reaction to the claim is: I don't believe it. Not willing to string up a claimed doc just yet though.

[Dragon Phoenix]

This game hasn't been running for very long...

Not in defence of BM, but this remark stings because this game has already been going on for ages. We are almost two months on day one now.

[Dragon Phoenix]

This game hasn't been running for very long...

Not in defence of BM, but this remark stings because this game has already been going on for ages. We are almost two months on day one now.

And I'm saying that in less than 2 months (the time since the game started and our inbox space was doubled), I don't see how BM could have gotten enough PMs to push his role pm all the way through the 4 pages of his inbox so that it disappeared.

I'm not arguing with that - I am jsut arguing with the fact that a day one which has already taken a ridiculous amount of time is being mentioned as "hasn't been running for very long".

[Dragon Phoenix]

God help me, I agree with ABR.

Unvote whomever I was voting 2 months ago or so
Vote Bookitty

[Dragon Phoenix]

It is later.

[Dragon Phoenix]

A vote, Im not to fond of bookitty here however not near enough to lynch her, even at deadline. I feel ABR has latched on here and has on more than one occasion suggested we all feel the same way... He says Setael thinks Bookitty is town when all he said was Bookie is not the lynch for today. I dont like the Bookitty wagon so for all the good it will do

vote ABR

So voting for a claimed and supported mason is a better solution?

[Dragon Phoenix]

pete d has nailed my feelings exactly. Probably they both are scum, but ckd stands out even more:

vote: curiouskarmadog

and

FoS: Setael

[Dragon Phoenix]

I did not vig her either. This is a weird night choice.

With the most logical choices being vollkan and streetflo, I'd rather go after the lurker as the most obvious one to make a strange night choice.

Vote streetflo

[Dragon Phoenix]

That could be a mafia gamble of course (take out a suspected townie and ride the vig claim to the end), but was the situation so desperate for the scum to resort to this? Setael woud have been a sitting suck for the lynch today, so taking out the doc would have made more sense. I tend to believe vollkan.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Unvote Streetflo/Setael

I would actually not mind lynching Porochaz. This is the second time that it is clear he is not paying sufficient attention to the game, which might also explain a bizarre night choice. In addition, I find it intriguing that he knows Setael is dead whereas a lot of other things escape him.

Vote Porochaz

[Dragon Phoenix]

I was pretty convinced that vollkan would come up town for the reasons I posted yesterday. That was one stupid lynch in my book.

And for the same reasons as yesterday:

vote Porochaz

[Dragon Phoenix]

Unvote Porochaz

Need a re-read with this new info.

[Dragon Phoenix]

BTW - Setael please explain why you apparently know that there are 2 scum left?

[Dragon Phoenix]

So the player list looks like this:

TOWN

Shanba - MASON

POSSIBLE SCUMS

farside22 (replacing Unright)
Lowell (replacing richman99)
Dragon Phoenix
pete d

CLAIMED, UNCONFIRMED (possibly scum)

Battle Mage - CLAIMED DOC
Setael - CLAIMED COP

CONFIRMED TOWN IF SETAEL IS (SANE) COP

:
MoS
Porochaz

Fixed it for you.

[Dragon Phoenix]

BTW - Setael please explain why you apparently know that there are 2 scum left?

By the way, I really want an answer on this.

[Dragon Phoenix]

You could still be naive, setael. Or desperate scum - although I grant you that the chance of that is low.

I don't know how good aimee is at balancing a game - I find a 14 player set-up strange anyway. I would think a 4 mafia group, especially including a GF, is overkill versus a 8 players town that has (possibly) a doc, (possibly) a cop, a one shot vig and a 2 pp mason group as power roles - I tend to think more of a 20 players game with a 4 ppl mafia group and several power roles. That's why I asked why you were apparently so sure about there being 2 scum left, because in my opinion that is not a logical set-up.

I think the most logical at the moment though is that setael is right, that we do have a doc, but that there is only one scum left. And I am leaning to farside on that as well.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Not necessarily. A SK does not change the balance between mafia and town dramatically, and that inbalance bothers me about a 4 mafia group set-up in 14 players. If I would design a 14 player game with 4 mafia (incl GF), the rest of the town would be power roles.

[Dragon Phoenix]

More food for thought. I know the scum have been erratic a lot of the game, but WHY is a claimed doctor still alive? There is no guarantee that we have a doctor in this setup, and a doc is anyway a convenient scum claim. I don't think BM is a good lynch today, but let's not forget that he is in no way a cleared pro-town role.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I agree with Seatal - discuss now. This smacks like "I still have to make up stuff and need to buy time".

[Dragon Phoenix]

Lock them up? Que?
I have never ever seen that variation - is that something that has been introduced here the past year?

[Dragon Phoenix]

Neither Setael nor BM is the play today of course, and not even tomorrow, and I do resent your remark Setael ("DP has planted the seeds today of getting the doc mislynched"), which is a misprepresentation what I said.

I'm putting my money on farside now. If she is the last scum, she knows only desperate posts can save her now.

[Dragon Phoenix]

I'll put in my views in detail tomorrow. Sunday I'm off to the USA for a week, but I will probably still have access once in a while.

[Dragon Phoenix]

It's not as much detail as I wanted, because I had forgotten how much non-oriductive discussion we had - and mhow much lurking.

That said, the post that stood out a mile for me is this one:

did you ever address why you were putting words in ABR's mouth and I missed it?

The post right above yours (86) in the last paragraph. Literally 5 cm above where you asked the question.

YES. I voted myself randomly but added a little gimic for the rest of us to respond to.

What system did you use to obtain your random result?
Also, is it your goal in this game to find scum?

My system was me thinking of someone to vote.
That said,

Unvote

. I don't want to be willing to lynch myself any longer . Would you?

Any other problems that you wanna ask me, feel free.

Thinking of someone to random vote and "choosing" yourself is not random. You're massively contradicting yourself with every post.

I don't know why you engage in this playstyle. Acting really scummy doesn't help you find scum, it just gives you a cover for whenever you're scum. And the only time I ever played against you, you

were

scum.

Also, I'm finding it really disheartening in general that most of the people high on my suspected scum list are waving around the excuse of "it's my playstyle". That's really lame. Unless I've played with you before, I'm not taking your word that you're always scummy. Especially not in the middle of a Mafia game.

Unright (now Farside) has a skirmish with two other players in one post, but does not vote for either - and they both turn out to be mafia later. Smells like a clear distancing attempt to me.

[Dragon Phoenix]

non-oriductive = non-productive btw... One of these days I will learn to check before posting.

[Dragon Phoenix]

vote farside22

The combination of her predecessor's post referred to above and her own play today.

If I have not posted again by Tuesday, I will probably not have internet access until Saturday - feel free to replace me if required then.

I'm off to Texas.

[Dragon Phoenix]

"Yawn"
Beautiful - another scum tell in my book.

In other news, the Houston hotel I will be staying in this week still has internet access in the business centre, so I will be able to play.

Vote stays.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Back home after a bit of a nightmare situation last two days in Houston. Will try to post more tomorrow.

[Dragon Phoenix]

No hard feelings BM.

The jetlag has reasonably worn off, the aggressive stomach bug which hospitalized two of our team last week and hit several others has gone with minor inconvenience only for myself - but I picked up a rather severe cold on the way home from the USA. My head is not suitable for any detailed analysis at the moment.

[Dragon Phoenix]

POSSIBLE SCUMS if Setael and BM are what they claim
farside22 (replacing Unright)
Lowell (replacing richman99)
Dragon Phoenix
pete d

Of these three (bar myself), I would rank pete d lowest as potential scum, for the same reason that he says. WIFOM it may be, but there is a reason why that usually is the best way to go. If the only thing brought up against him in this phase is that he is too town then I give up playing this game (and yes, I know the same argument is being used against me).

I don;t get much of a read on Lowell, could see him swing either way. I'm sticking with farside22 (replacing Unright), mainly for the Unright post I quoted.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Unconfirmed if Setael is a cop:
Lowell (replacing richman99)
Dragon Phoenix
BattleMage

Lynching Setael would leave us with 5 players tomorrow, of whom only 2 confirmed - not a winning idea.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Play of the day. Let's hope it is the final one.

Vote Lowell

[Dragon Phoenix]

Come on... BM conveniently forgets to protect the cop in the same night that the scum tries to take her out?

Vote battle mage

[Dragon Phoenix]

And so ends my last game on scum. Good luck town. Can't believe you are letting BM getting away with this.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Thanks for taking over the modding Patrick.