Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[mozamis]

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but " not being in the mood" sounds like you're just being really lazy and don't respect me enough to answer the question.

It's this sort of post that makes me think Hans is town.
It's pissed off, frustrated town.
HANS IN TOWN PILE

[mozamis]

UNVOTE

HE SEEMD A BIT BLAND BUT HIS LAST FEW POSTS HAVE BEEN "SCUM HUNTERY" SO HE'S BACK TO NULL

[mozamis]

leaving p.oe
wguerts, rev, UD and fitz as possible scum

of these i wgeurts i guess is the weakest scum read, since he looked very fucking town earlier on. But as someone else mentioned, his total lack of content ment that that his towniness has evaporated.
Still, rev ud and fitz i guess makes more sense.
dan, i thought rev was looking more town so thats confusing. Still, i could vote him.
But we should focus on fitz and UD, and work out the last scummer later.

[mozamis]

*damn, i thought rev ....

[Superhans]

A P E A S E M E N The
W O N ' T
W O R K

[mozamis]

thanks for keeping an open mind.

[mozamis]

it was NINE posts before he gave out any reads

vote ultimate despair

[lucca261]

I'm here and reading.

[lucca261]

@lucca:

1)
disregard: pay no attention to; ignore
(we didn't do this, and I think that's fairly obvious)

dismiss: treat as unworthy of serious consideration.
(I admittedly did this)

Saying that I didn't disregard your case (which I didn't), while also saying that I dismissed your case (which I did) is not a contradiction, much less an actual lie.

2) The substance was that we had a bunch of scumreads. The narrative was that somehow having a bunch of scumreads equated to keeping our options open. The actual fact being discussed was the number of scumreads we had, i.e. that was the actual basis of your suspicion (if there was more to the "you're keeping your options open" bit then you've done a terrible job communicating it). You constructed a scum narrative for our behavior while seemingly choosing to not critically engage with the possibility that having a bunch of scum reads was an honest town process.
The factual basis of your point there, though, was in fact the number of scum reads. Which simply isn't indicative. Slapping scum narrative onto a non-indicative incident does not magically turn it into scummy behavior, regardless of whether or not you think it does. So my saying that you have scum read us in substantial part due to behavior that is not indicative is a completely valid point.

3) If I think your push on us is a push in search of reasons, the question is whether you actually believe it or not. It is entirely possible that you are simply being bad. I don't especially feel like voting someone just for being bad without having a meaningful basis for believing that it's scummy instead of just poor reasoning.

4) The explanation for why I "moved on" from the page 10 stuff should be fairly obvious. Look at 243 and subsequent posts. We moved on to a different topic of conversation, reacting to an action that we knew came from scum.
What exactly were you expecting here? I had good reason to be focused more on FC/Sesq, discussed my reasoning, and I don't recall you or anyone else being upset by the focus on those two back when they were still alive.
I'm also curious why you feel like our treatment of Mozami was different than, say, our treatment of Revan, who I spent some time questioning on page 11 and also "moved on" from. Like, who here that we've interacted with substantially have we treated in a way that is substantially different from how we've treated mozami in a way that stands out? Preferably with quotes/links to demonstrate what you're claiming to see.

-M

1) Read that again. When I say you disregard my case, I say you dismiss it. You paid no attention to it, instead, trying to say that "I was looking for reasons" or "Having a bunch of scumreads is not scummy" when it's clear my case is not based on it.

2) The substance is that you had a bunch of scumreads. The narrative is that this, a non-scummy thing, combined with the game situation at the moment and a prior suspicion I had on your slot made me read your "bunch of scumreads" as scummy. Your point about scum narratives is crazy. I'm don't know who scum is. I don't know what is happening on the game. When I see a scummy thing, I try to make a narrative on my mind: "Why scum would do this?". This is the point of the game. You doing all these rambling to

dismiss

my point is not confusing me. Try harder.

3) This is what I'm saying. Instead of thinking why I thought what you did was scummy, you prefer to hyperdefense yourself and use AtE.

4) You weren't voting Revan. You were voting Mozamis. And then you ask a bunch of questions to him. His answers are either non-existent or inconclusive. What does UD do? Just move on. This is what I think it was scummy. He was being strange too around your spot. I thought it was TvS. I'm not talking about how you moved to Sesq or Friend. I'm talking about how you did not seem concerned in Mozamis answers. You know, the player you were voting at the time.

[havingfitz]

3 day weekends/vla's are grrrrrrrrreat!
Catching up in 3 games not so much.

Will catch up in here today/asap.

[Ultimate Despair]

I wanna know. Don't buy your point that it being nightless invidates this question, I think that pre flips can generate pretty insightful content.

What insightful content does preflips generate in a nightless game?

- Junko

[Ultimate Despair]

VOTE: Mozamis

Not a discussed vote with my hydra partner ftr, but im sure mukuro will agree given 701 and 702.

@lucca: you didn't seem to understand muk's point, so let me just rephrase what they meant.

You say that we have a bunch of scumreads, which means that we are scum trying not to commit to any wagon. That's privileging the hypothesis - ie. you are going and looking at behaviors with the intention of interpreting it as a scummy act. If you look at it clearly, a player with lots of scum reads but strong reasoning for each one is NAI. The scumminess comes from when the reasoning is bad, because thst is scum making up excuses to scumread slots rather than town players legitimately scumreading a slot.

- Junko

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from V/LA and catching up …

I feel like there is a concerted effort in this game to make sure I get absolutely no Town reads at all. People – WTF?

Also – I specifically made my “Moz has to be lynched if I’m killed while V/LA” post as a test. If I’m as unlikely to get lynched as Hans suggests then if Moz is Town I would have expected scum to have nuked me right after I made that post to try for another easy mislynch. And not shot came so I’m pretty comfortable with my vote.

If Moz is scum the vote exchange at 706 and 711 looks like last ditch distancing to me.

--

of these i wgeurts i guess is the weakest scum read, since he looked very fucking town earlier on. But as someone else mentioned, his total lack of content ment that that his towniness has evaporated.

This reads pretty solidly to me of “MoI said he’s no longer Town so I’m prepping a move into scum for him”.

--

You've forgotten someone...

Who? Moz and UD are my top scum reads. Based on a Moz scum read you and Lucca would be Town reads. That leaves the four who I gave the tiered list on.

--

I got listed in two places

Well you are off the hook of being a non-voting sluggard then. I just grabbed the not-voting list and didn’t think to check for potential errors …

When Hawk was killed, Revan was the only one voting him. Does this make him more or less likely scum and/or shooter?

Really him voting Hawk is irrelevant. We’ve already established who Hawk was suspecting and thus had motive to shoot Hawk. Revan wasn’t in that pool. And scum generally try to vote Town so Revan voting Hawk says little alignment-wise.

Your point on Superhan’s 213 that you make in 676 (at least in regards to that being something odd to say to a scum candidate as Town) is good. Still not overall thinking Hans is scum but

--

@Magna, 663: but I'm voting UD, like, since the start of the day? I want him lynched today. Look at his posts. Also, can you explain to me your superhans townread?

Yeah – mostly I posted that to see if you would actually respond given that others are ducking my questions and I needed a reminder litmus test on my Town read on your slot.

I’ve summarized my reasoning on Hans – I don’t see scumHans making such a big deal over thinking I was linking him to both Sesq and FC (who were both Town) relationally. ScumHans benefits by the relational linkage when either (or in this case both) flip Town and likewise if he flipped before them it would have made it easier to have mislynched them. No Scum motivation to making the deal he did. Am I getting fooled by completely off the wall play? Maybe. But at this stage I don’t see any strong reasons to revise the read.

can we get a UD lynch, @moi/@doom?

I’m a little concerned that you only seem to have a UD scum read. Who else is scum with UD in your mind? There is no Town benefit to refusing to vote another read if the UD wagon doesn’t build (and it hasn’t) given 3 scum remain.

--

I don't even get where you're coming from on point 1. We had a bunch of posts addressing and discussing Moz on day 1; are you asking us to restate our reasoning? Did you miss it? Like, what exactly are you getting at here, because it would be fairly difficult to miss our thoughts on Moz from day 1, and we have under 100 posts, so it would be hard to miss given the ISO feature. If you have questions about our read from day 1 ask them, but it's not my job to rehash previous events for your convenience.

Color me unimpressed with this response. The whole point of the exercise is to highlight what I see as fake-reads from your slot. Your ISO shows some softball questions tossed towards Moz Day 1 that supposedly pointed to a scum read. Yet today you’ve conspicuously avoided voting for the slot up until just now. And I don’t see anything in your Day 2 ISO that says “I revoked that read” (in fact you in this response squash that notion) or significant scum-hunting elsewhere (I discount your back and forth with Lucca as that is mostly driven by disproving his read on you not commenting on his alignment).

Not a discussed vote with my hydra partner ftr, but im sure mukuro will agree given 701 and 702.

What do you think specifically is scummy about those posts?

--

[Superhans]

@MOI
U didn't mention Fitz which made me think you'd forgotten about him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOI
U didn't mention Fitz which made me think you'd forgotten about him.

Revan > Wgeurts / Doom >

Having

but there isn’t a ton of difference between the tiers there at this stage.

You sure about that Super?

[Superhans]

Oh shit sorry, read having as in the verb having
Feel like an even bigger fool

[mozamis]

VOTE: Mozamis

Not a discussed vote with my hydra partner ftr, but im sure mukuro will agree given 701 and 702.

so you dont actually give reason for voting me. And this is the most important of your post.
And then you spend a long time discussing theory.
Yeah, these guys are scum.
Lets do this!

[mozamis]

This reads pretty solidly to me of “MoI said he’s no longer Town so I’m prepping a move into scum for him”.

I did agree with you that he can longer be "conf town" as i sadi he was day 1.

However, I'm not "prepping a move into scum for him". He is the weakest of my scum reads. In fact it was P.O.E s omaybe i should have said null.
Whatever. Focus on getting UD lynched. Wguerts is - like i clearly said - last on my lynch.

[mozamis]

*last on my lynch list

[Superhans]

If they are scum, and you (Moz) are not, why would they abstain from pushing you as scum?

[Superhans]

Would not like to push today, feel flipping Revan/Mozamis will be far safer.

[Superhans]

@UD
I want u to answer my question even if u think it is pointless. It will help me.

[Superhans]

Think Mozamis pushing UD is either theatre (unlikely) but looks like an attempt of scum trying to capitalise on a shift of pressure onto UD.

[Superhans]

On the other hand I may be wrong about Mozamis...

UNVOTE: mozy
K I'm not so sure about UD being town...
I just read what Lucca said about UD voting Moz but not applying any pressure, which is very compelling but.if this were to be true Moz' push would have had to be ingenuine.

[Superhans]

I have a little time on my hands this weekend.

SH is looking better, UD is looking worse. Moz is town in my gut.

How in YOUR opinion is SH looking better and UD looking worse? I get that seems to have been board consensus around that time, but why do YOU think that was the case?

-M

I rate this question. Revan popped up, echoed popular opinion and then fucked off.