Open 50: The New C9 - Abandoned!

[Justin Playfair]

Sammich

Let me begin by saying my method of examining posts is woefully inadequate for Sammich’s style of play.

Reasons for things include:

Vote Oman
Bandwagons=/=Shamelessness
Bandwagons=Reason

FoS: Ooba
Wtf.

=\

Yay!

Anyway Unvote.

Defenses and Explanations include:

THERE'S NOTHING TO MAKE A DEFENSE ABOUT.
ADSFJKL;

I'd rather not have those votes and FoS's taken off if you don't have a clue what I was FOSing someone about.

But it's Super Sexy town.
How can you not go wrong?

Gasp. Well excuuuuuuuuuuse me, Professor Mafia!

and my favorite:

That's a lot of suspicion on me.

To be fair in one of Sammich’s bad exchanges early Ooba helped a lot. And there are times when you can make a pretty good guess what Sammich is getting at by carefully reading his cryptic comments in context with previous posts. But Sammich, you can’t expect others to work to understand you when you can’t be bothered to write the complete sentence or two it would take to communicate your thought more clearly. And your refusal to answer questions or suspicions is inexplicable. It is quite possible that inside your head you hold a perfectly reasonable, logical perspective of events in the game. But the game requires you to communicate that to others.

There were also more conventional bad bits in Sammich’s play, like calling doctor on another player. Really that whole post was bad. Self-contradictory and meandering in a way that rendered it useless.

But is Sammich scum? Is he town? I don’t know, don’t even know how to begin to decide. I don’t think anyone else does either, having read every comment to and on him in the thread. This makes him a danger to the town, because he provides it with no meaningful standard with which to gauge his actions. Sammich, you could correct this, and with only a little effort. But if you don’t, you put us in the position of having to judge your evasion and sometimes open refusal to engage in discussion as scummy simply because you’ve given us no way to judge it otherwise.

[Shteven]

I must say I like Justin's reads on LaptopGun/Oman/Sammich. All of them.

He's definitely raised my suspicions on LTG, although the other two I was already wary of. When I first voted Sammich, it was mostly just because I wanted him to defend his attempt to out power roles. If he had actually done so, I probably would have removed the vote. Note to Oman: notice I didn't mention this explicitly in the thread at the time! But he's never once tried to explain himself on anything since then, and this is why I'm still voting him, and at this point it would take something beyond a short defense to change my mind.

[Khelvaster]

I am having severe issues finding replacements. If you would like me to modkill all the inactive players, please PM me. If over half this place does, I will modkill the inactives. I am not asking for a vote because of the metagaming if there was a scum among the inactives. Again, if over half this game PM's me asking me to modkill, I will modkill.

[TylerJ]

Okay I liked Omans and LTG's but I feel this game isn't going anywhere. I've tried to do something random to get the game goin, but that hasn't worked either.

[somestrangeflea]

Still here. As I said:

Will post substance once replacements arrive.

Now also applies to modkills if performed.

[curiouskarmadog]

how many mod kills are we talking about here?

[LaptopGun]

By my count it's 4 MIA's (not counting Timmers, who apparently was already replaced) who need to be replaced or modkilled.

Ok Justin sorry I haven't been around. If you want my scum list here it is buddy: 1. TylerJ for all sorts of reasons w'eve discussed.
2. Shteven Attempted to get Sammich lynched. I guess he'd be the one attempting to flame the wagon. I believed Sammich's behavior was simply reprehensible. Shteven was the one calling out. I bought it, with some reservations. Now I think that in the situation the mafia would try to jump on him in such a "nice" manner. I bought it and went with it for a while, but I got to say I am just not comfortable with how myself and others went with that discussion.
3. ooba ,aka the partner. Unless Im mistakened, adds his two cents and votes how the other potentail mafia go. I haven' checked, but he's agreed with Tyler. I'm really unsure about this one, perhaps I am being too paranoid.

I'd add Oman to that list for his behavior, but it is my belief that the wagon against him was flammed by one or more mafia. It would seem this is TylerJ, who has basically waged a one man vendetta against him. If you believe there has been a partner in all of this, ooba would be there too.

[Shteven]

@LTG
If the mafia are the only ones willing to attack people who are suspicious, mafia (the game) would be unwinnable (for the town).

[TylerJ]

^agreed.

[curiouskarmadog]

I will be gone until the 26th. Also giving you the heads up, I am in a ton of games so it might be slow going updating all the games I am in, but I will get to it when I get back.

Thanks for the entertainment, I hope you and yours have a good holiday.

[Justin Playfair]

I will answer any questions anyone has, or will be happy to post any analysis anyone asks for, but until the modkill/replacement issue has been settled I will probably not do much else. If anyone needs anything, though, I'll be checking in at least once a day, except maybe on the 25th.

[Shteven]

I'm not expecting much to happen for the next day or two (or three). Hopefully the modkill question will be answered soon.

[LaptopGun]

I think we'll hear back on that by the end of the week, he's been pretty good answering/doing things. All hail the new mod! I'll continue my check ins for the next couple days.

[Oman]

Hmm…”if bandwagoning is your only reason, well that’s really poor play.”?

Sorry, you've misunderstood. I did not mean "If bandwagoning on me is your only reason" but "if my bandwagoning is your only reason" That is: If they are voting me for what is a null-tell in my (then current) meta.

Just lynch a lurker?

Town or scum I support Lynch All Lurkers meta in a "non-threatening" situation (e.g. NOT lylo, no cult etc.)

So Oman, are you saying you’d be happy with TylerJ, Sammich or Shteven?

Pretty much at that point. I'd been on all of them at some point. I was less sold on Jordan by then.

He’s had some good moments in this game, which is more than can be said for some folks, and when he seems to be trying he’s honed in on what I found to be some compelling things. On the other hand he has an OMGUS problem and has made a couple of just attention grabbing horrible posts that don’t seem consistent with town behavior.

Yeah, Chalk a lot of it up to disinterest, I hadn't even posted in this game until I saw modkills pending and soemthing that required me to respond to (also quite interesting).

Plus, I don’t particularly like the seeming relationship with Ooba.

Haven't noticed it. I might reread Ooba's posts re: me.

nything you could tell me that would help me understand what differentiates the bandwagons you like jumping on and the one that built on you early would be appreciated.

I felt that I was bandwagoning for pressure (as I said) but others were getting dangerous on me (very vocal etc.) for a reason that anyone with a spare 10 mintues could see I do in most every game (though doing less these days.)

Also anything that would make sense of your suggestiong that a random lurker be lynched but that you would also be happy with lynching any of three named players would be nice.

I dislike lurkers, they were damaging the game. I found those three players scummy (though I doubt they would be three scum, simply second guessing myself and my scumdar).

Thank you.

Your welcome.


Giving Justin

TOWNIE BROWNIES

. If i need to explain that he didn't inflate the case against me, or that he has pretty good and balanced analasis of lots of players (3 i think at this point) then you're sillyfish.

[Khelvaster]

Unless someone PMs me changing their mind, I will modkill all the inactives in this game in 48 hours.

[TylerJ]

will be gone through the 27-30th

[curiouskarmadog]

back and caught up, I am still comfortable with my current vote

[Justin Playfair]

Oman,

Just a quick thank you for your answers. And going back and rereading your bandwagon comment I see your meaning now. And yes, now that I understand the comment, I would agree that the bandwagon on you for your bandwagoning earlier was weak, though not out of bounds for early game play. Also, glad to see you’re still with us. Scum or Town, you’ve made some of the most fun to read posts in the thread.

[Justin Playfair]

And since CuriousKarmaDog brought up LoudMouthLee, here are my thoughts on him, at the time I replaced into the game. It doesn’t include Cornerman because Cornerman wasn’t here at that time. I don’t know if LML/Cornerman is one of the players due for modkill, but if they aren’t I will give my thoughts on Cornerman’s actions since he entered the game once we know.

LoudMouthLee,

Begins as badly as possible, picking on Jordan and Shteven for their “tones”. And really, let’s look at these early posts. First, taking this line from Jordan out of context (and even out of context it doesn’t look bad):

Vig, while it is possible that you killed scum last night

And extrapolating this:

I find it incredibly interesting that your opening post contained that line. It's possible, as you say, but no more probable that he was the SK. I find it very curious how the tone of your post makes it seem like you KNEW that the vig killed Mafia.

Vote: Jordan, our resident Serial Killer.

This would, of course, be the only way that anyone would know that the Vig killed mafia. I get that from the tone of his opening post. The vig has a 50/50 chance of either hitting scum or hitting a townie. For all we know, the vig killed the townie and the SK killed the mafia member.

Yeah, maybe that’s why Jordan said it was possible. Sort of like a 50/50 chance. The fact that LoudMouthLee here tries to pretend Jordan said something he didn’t is bad enough. The fact that LML can’t even create a line where Jordan’s own words support the lie LML’s telling is worse. But LoudMouthLee actually tries to push this lie based case to conclusion:

You catch more scum on page one than you catch on page 30.

This culminates with this in post 32:

I wouldn't be shocked that one of them (Jordan and Shteven) is the SK and the other is the Vig.

Yes folks, that was the end of post 32.

Inexplicably (because Jordan’s defense seemed just about right to me in response to something so ridiculous) LoudMouthLee gains some traction on this. Not enough, though, and as a second bandwagon forms on Oman we get another duo. LoudMouthLee wants a modkill of AlyG for posting something from an ongoing game…

Mod, if you are unsure as what to do about this sitiuation (I know I would be floored, and I have modded for a long time), I recommend talking to MeMe and asking her advice.

I strongly recommend NOT removing any references, as they have happened and probably WILL be referenced again in this game.

…but also wants what AlyG did preserved so it can be used against Oman.

Just in case anyone missed it, by the way, LoudMouthLee wants AlyG modkilled…

Here's what bothers me, Oman.

#1) This, in my opinion, casts a much darker shadow on AlyG than you. However, your incredible amounts of "defensiveness" makes me a little bit concerned.

I feel like you're going through a "I'm scum, and I shouldn't be lynched over something like this!"

I feel a town alligned player would have just waited for the mod to come and fix it, rather than an outcry for having it removed. I am not prepared to vote you on it, as it's unfortunate. However, you will probably be lynched over it.

If I were mod, I would modkill AlyG, but that's just me. Your reactions to the whole ordeal makes for interesting banter.

Major FoS: Oman

…and also wants Oman under suspicion for reacting negatively to what AlyG did. I want to call especial attention to what LML says he believes a “town aligned” player would do. Because LML called out for AlyG to be modkilled right quick. It’s just an extremely convenient twofer for an opportunistic scum. Argue for AlyG to be modkilled for the same thing you accuse Oman for being angry over, even saying he will “probably be lynched” because of it.

In post 240 LML takes his vote off Jordan and puts it on Aimee, suggesting an Aimee/SomeStrangeFlea connection. Goes all the way to voting based on Aimee’s vote on SSF, saying that his opinion was sealed by SSF’s reaction.

There isn’t enough from LoudMouthLee, and he’s been gone for too long, for me to put him at the top of my list. But everything he’s done looks like hunting for victims, not hunting for scum. His behavior regarding Jordan/Shteven and AlyG/Oman, especially, is just horrible.

[LaptopGun]

Wow, I forgot how retarded LML was acting. I remebered his early game "Look I found the power role guys." The subsequent stuff Justin brings up about LML vs Oman is also fasinating. If I may add something- he tried to identify the vigilante. I will assume for the sake of argument we have a vig and a sk in our game. Unless I'm seriously mistaken (and I'm not), the vig is a pro-town power role. Why would a townie call out an ally? Also his more concrete assertions about who the serial killer is benefit the mafia as much as the town. If anything he looked more pro-mafia than pro town.

Sadly I think this is analysis is moot. He's an MIA and it looks like the hammer is going to fall on all of them- if not (miraculously) and he was replaced, I'd feel bad for the replacement. That's an awful lot of scumminess that needs to be explained away,. It's possible, but that person would still be dogged by it. That's my opinion.

[Shteven]

Checking in.

I agree with the two above posts on LML; I had been trying to ask him some questions, but due to inactivity, never got responses, and so my case against him stalled. Glad to see it picked up, and we'll see what happens regarding him and any possible modkills.

[somestrangeflea]

Unless someone PMs me changing their mind, I will modkill all the inactives in this game in 48 hours.

Did

someone PM?

If not, who's dead?

[Oman]

Justin: LML's early jump on Jordan is par for the course from what I've played with him as town, but his fence sit with me and AlyG is kind of different for his town play.

Also, calling Jordan and whoever SK and Vig without voicing they may be town set off warning bells based on his earlier playstyle (it was one game, but hey, he was town.).

[Khelvaster]

I was on a desperate search for everyone's role.

Modkilling commencing.

[Khelvaster]

MODKILLED FOR INACTIVITY
LoudMouthLee--Townie
Manaspryte--Townie
Timmers2001--Mafia
White--Cop
AlyG--Townie

You also get the complementary n0 investigation: Laptop Gun is townie