Mini 535: Pick Your Poison 2 (Game Over!)

[Patrick]

Votecount

Ether (1) -- ckillor
skitzer (5) -- Porochaz, JDodge, Bookitty, JordanA24, YvonneSeer
YvonneSeer (2) -- thedragonsprincess, Gorrad

Not voting: scotmany12, skitzer, perfect628, Ether
12 alive, 7 to lynch.

[Ether]

I really don't think Skitzer is scum.

But ignorance and naivety aren't the

issue

; the issue is implied knowledge. Unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying entirely.

Eh. I don't think it's that strong an implication, and the "I'm trying to figure out why people would be acting oddly" aspect actually feels

town

(if unoptimal) in newbies.

And JDodge's vote is like the best of the lot. "Trying to out power roles?" There's an encryptor, and I am completely unable to view this as a sinister fishing attempt. Seriously. The wagon feels opportunistic and wrong.

How did I do such?

The way you spoke of YvonneSeer possibly being a weak doc implied knowledge, not speculation. There are only 2 possible ways for you to possess this knowledge:

1. You are scum
   
2. You are a weak doc

If 2 was true, you would

not have speculated that Yvonne was a weak doc

. Thus I can only deduce that 1 is true.

Eh I'm not sure how much I believe skitzer. He seemed to just brush off the accusation. Doesn't really warant a vote, nut

FoS:skitzer

. Also,

Unvote:JDodge

. Random voting seems to be coming to a close.

Eh, whatever. skitzer is becoming increasingly suspicious, especially b/c of what jdodge caught. I won't have much time til Wednesday, so I'll hold off my vote. I'll also post my thoughts then.

I especially dislike Perfect's voteless support, and the timing in his further attachment to the wagon.

vote: perfect628

[scotmany12]

Ether has a great point. There is an encryptor, so the scum really have no reason to want to out powerroles. Instead, they would just talk about it among themselves. I'm starting to view skitzer as just a really really confused townie.

[Gorrad]

Ok, reread, and here's my scumlist:

1. YvonneSeer: Admitting to acting scummy on purpose
2. Skitzer: Bad posting in general, and could just have forgotten about Encryptor
3. thedragonprincess: Lurking

Also, I'm all for the hypovig idea. That seems like a really good plan.

[Ether]

could just have forgotten about Encryptor

Attributing sinister

intent

to Skitzer's posts is a horrible stretch. Damn this wagon sucks.

Also, I'm all for the hypovig idea. That seems like a really good plan.

It's actually not that great. The best plan is probably just "let the vig do whatever it feels like and hope the rest of the town doesn't find other ways to claim not-vig."

[ckillor]

gah, sorry everyone. i forgot about this game and its now on my watch list. i'll try to post something later after a re-read

[YvonneSeer]

Ether, when you say this bandwagon is opportunistic, are you talking about opportunistic scum or opportunistic town? If you're talking about scum, then at least one scum is on the wagon right now, unless you're suggesting that the wagon is only town-filled.

But I do agree with you about perfect628. Voteless support indeed, good call.

[thedragonsprincess]

hey guys sorry im still here.... ive been extremely sick lately and havent been able to concentrate enough to do a reread. im feelin somewhat ok today..... may be able to do a full reread later today; if not today then definately tomorrow

[perfect628]

Ok, I suppose I understand the vote on me. I think I may have thought it was already L-2 and didn't want to make it L-1. I know that sounds lame, but i'm pretty sure that's what happened. Simple case of lack of attention. I'll try and reread by tomorrow, at the latest Tuesday, got a lot of studying to do!

[Gorrad]

could just have forgotten about Encryptor

Attributing sinister

intent

to Skitzer's posts is a horrible stretch. Damn this wagon sucks.

I think everything's a trap, that's why I'm still alive.

Encryptor's not a very common role, I think this is the first game I've played that has it, so it's not a stretch that scum would forget about it. Especially Skitzer, who has already claimed to have forgotten what one of the town power roles does.

[scotmany12]

Gorrad, ether is right. It is a stretch. To think that scum will forget the roles that they have, especially when they were voted on, is ludicrous if you would ask me.

[Ether]

Ether, when you say this bandwagon is opportunistic, are you talking about opportunistic scum or opportunistic town? If you're talking about scum, then at least one scum is on the wagon right now, unless you're suggesting that the wagon is only town-filled.

I don't understand what you're asking. I think that supporting a big wagon for bad reasons is inherently scummy, and I think that this wagon is made of bad reasons.

To clarify--I'm not really voting Perfect for not voting. (Having said that, his "I thought he was at -2" excuse is bullshit. There was a recent votecount with Skitzer at -5. There was one vote between this votecount and his post. This isn't too difficult.)

It's more Perfect's support of the Skitzwagon without having the slightest idea what it's actually about. Skitzer most certainly did

not

just brush off the accusations, JDodge had already made the post calling him out, and Skitzer's posts 111 and 118 didn't seem "increasingly suspicious" at all. I'm thinking Perfect was just trying to angle himself into a more comfortable vote.

I think everything's a trap, that's why I'm still alive.

Bad motto, by the way. Smart towngoers get nightkilled.

Especially smart towngoers whose survival doesn't influence Patrick's signature.

[JDodge]

I should note that I am

not voting skitzer based on potentially outing a power role

. Am voting skitzer based on

implied knowledge

of the existence of a power role. Weak doc is a role that is

probably

in the setup - however, with the way it is worded it specifically seems to imply the secondary reason as to why I think skitzer is scum: that he is not a weak doc.

[Porochaz]

Posting, stuff coming, hopefully... my connection is so bad today im literary holding the wire whilst im typing to keep my connection going...

[Porochaz]

I can understand perfects reason for not voting and find it ok.
I think Ether has a point about skitzer forgetting however I feel skitzer forgetting one of the towns powerroles when there on the front page is suspicous...
I don't like Yvonne Seer... she has been acting anti town, post 131 feels off. The way she words the bit after her question to Ether just doesnt seem right.

(Also I got my connection to work better by sticking lots of Wii games cases on the connection, technology to the rescue...)

[skitzer]

I felt that your weird play was you trying to get yourself lynched.

[Porochaz]

Who are you talking to here?

[skitzer]

YvonneSeer.

[JDodge]

Why would you assume that anyone who has a pro-town power role would actively try to get themselves lynched?

[scotmany12]

Does that make him scummy JD? Personally I just though it made him look pretty stupid. I can't really see any reason for scum or town to do what he did, so I viewing it as a null tell.

[skitzer]

I thought a weak doc was like a miller in the fact that it wasn't helpful to the town. I thought weak docs failed whenever they protected anyone.

In Green Liquid's How To Mod V2.0, he mentions that it if a player doesn't like the role they have been given they may try to get themselves lynched, and that was what I felt, until I read through the role PM.

[JDodge]

I thought a weak doc was like a miller in the fact that it wasn't helpful to the town. I thought weak docs failed whenever they protected anyone.

In Green Liquid's How To Mod V2.0, he mentions that it if a player doesn't like the role they have been given they may try to get themselves lynched, and that was what I felt, until I read through the role PM.

So? How is that unhelpful to the town? You still have a semi-confirmable townie. Furthermore, that is a load of bullshit; anyone trying to get themselves lynched over a role should never play mafia again. Seriously.

[Ether]

JDodge, your initial vote (implied knowledge, yes, I know) broke fewer laws of common sense than the other Skitzvotes, but I still don't think it was all that strong. And your most recent posts give off the same policy lynch vibes as everyone else's did. Please cut it out and vote Perfect. Thank you.

Also, you've had some experience with Ever. Should I take his noncommital, suspicionless shadows of my own posts as a bad sign?

I think Ether has a point about skitzer forgetting however I feel skitzer forgetting one of the towns powerroles when there on the front page is suspicous...

I'm confused.

[Bookitty]

My vote for Skitzer was not for forgetting the abilities of the various power roles. I've done similar, and I'm not going to fault someone for a mistake.

I voted for him because he seemed to be deliberately trying to out a power role, and that seems an anti-town thing to do. I'm going to say, tentatively, that this is Skitzer's playstyle. I don't feel that excuses it, but I do think it makes it less likely he's scum. I hoped my vote (and the wagon too) would have pressured him to put more thought into this game, but I don't see any result there.

I didn't much like the wagon against Ether. I don't know if she's scum. She's a smart player, and I'm not going to secondguess her motivations for her suspicions on me, but I will point out that it looked like Ether was trying to scumhunt to me, even though I knew her to be wrong. If I had to guess right now, I'd put her as town.

I don't see scum doing what YvonneSeer did, either. Announcing that you're bandwagoning first one person, then another, with the motives she expressed? I believe her, I think. It's too obvious a move for scum to make, and she didn't seem overly concerned about the votes on her.

Gorrad and thedragonsprincess both attracted some suspicion from me, for their slipping onto the YvonneSeer wagon without giving much reason. Bandwagoning is not anti-town, especially in the early stages where town should be looking for reactions.

Something I REALLY don't like: Porochaz votes Skitzer early, for some weak responses, says that he still finds Skitzer scummy (doesn't give reasons this time), and THEN says: "I feel that his latest weak doc thing justifies my vote." He also points to some other things Skitzer has done, but he's aware of Skitzer's general playstyle, I think, so why is he waiting until well after he votes to "justify" it?

Need more posts from Jordan and ckillor. They're not giving much to work with. Perfect seems pretty disengaged from this game, as well.

Scotmany seems to be pretty much going with the flow of this game, not making waves, changing his mind and agreeing with the more vocal players, and hasn't given a lot of his own opinions. So I'm going to shake up that flow, a bit, and

unvote; vote Scotmany12

[JordanA24]

I thought a weak doc was like a miller in the fact that it wasn't helpful to the town. I thought weak docs failed whenever they protected anyone.

In Green Liquid's How To Mod V2.0, he mentions that it if a player doesn't like the role they have been given they may try to get themselves lynched, and that was what I felt, until I read through the role PM.

Townie's should never try to get themselves lynched. As JD mentioned, even if they are a useless powerrole, they're still, in effect, a townie, therefore, they're not a Jester.

I don't see scum doing what YvonneSeer did, either. Announcing that you're bandwagoning first one person, then another, with the motives she expressed? I believe her, I think. It's too obvious a move for scum to make, and she didn't seem overly concerned about the votes on her.

This is pretty WIFOMy IMO, and also, Yvonne could be poorly playing scum. Poor play =! Town.

My top-3 scum so far

Skitzer

: Trying to out a powerrole, and then saying that he thought that they would be trying lynch themselves, which I simply don't believe. As I said, even a useless powerrole is a townie.

Yvonne

: Some poor and very off-looking posts have placed her second in my list.

IGMEOY

Scotmany

: Good catch on him Bookitty, I agree with what you said about him.