Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Friend Computer

Sesq I'd also vote in a heartbeat if he had a viable wagon which I don't think is the current game state.

[karnos]

Vote Count 1.4

Friend Computer

(4/7)

- doomfeathers, sesq, wgeurts, magnaofillusion

Revan

(1/7)

- superhans

Superhans

(0/7)

-

doomfeathers

Havingfits

has been prodded.

(expired on 2017-01-27 08:45:01) until deadline.
With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

[Ultimate Despair]

Hawk can you explain your vote on Sesq more in-depth? Thanks.

Derp clear denied.

[Ultimate Despair]

...

Regarding the Daykill – while I’m not going to spend inordinate amounts of time in this post discussing it I think the fact that it was used so early does indicate that scum in general (and perhaps the Daykiller in specific) was under pressure. While Hawk didn’t look inherently scummy he certainly didn’t look unlynchable lock Town that early. So the odds that it was some combination of Sesq / Friend Computer as scum is pretty strong in my mind.

Honestly, what makes the most sense to me as to why scum would choose to kill Hawk of all people is if it was a clumsy attempt to deflect from FC onto Sesq. Not clearing on Sesq (he could be a goon), but if we're going to specifically try and target the dayvig, I think FC makes more conceptual sense than Sesq as the scum PR here.

VOTE: Friend Computer

In any case, Lucca wasn't the killer unless kronos purposely waited to reveal the kill, since kronos posted a vote count since Lucca was last online.

You do know it is general site procedure for Mods with hidden daykills to allow scum to “queue up” the kill to a later time based on any number of criteria, correct?

I have no idea why doom would know this. His whole approach there seems consistent with the idea that the timing is important information; do you have reason to think he's faking it?

I'm a bit concerned that scum didn't choose to shoot a more veteran player like MOI or WG, but as long as the "screwup" explanation continues to be plausible, i think that's an issue for a later time
-M

My question to you M is the following – given you’ve gone out of your way to hide your heads why don’t you perceive that you would be a target on what is a weak Burden of Proficiency basis? Also why don’t you include Having or Moz in your list given that they are clearly vets as well?

It's certainly plausible that we'd have been a target, although obviously there's no way for scum to know who we are or how good they might think we are. I'm also just generally not going to be especially inclined to make a "why am I not dead yet" type post, since having any kind of gamestate-based paranoia about your own slot is just silly. As far the other two, so far havingfitz hasn't really done anything, and mozami has gotten some suspicion, so in a "any veteran player at all who MIGHT be expected to soak up a daykill" sense, sure, you can make a case there, but as a "where would I be shooting as scum right now" issue, they probably wouldn't be especially catching my eye (actually you can make a case for shooting fitz right there as a zero info kill if you think he's someone to be especially feared and you want him silenced before he can impact the game at all, but I'm guessing that it's not a particularly standard scum approach there).

PS we do have a hydra PT (I set it up and gave my partner and karnos access), and so far there's been relatively little hydra dissonance in thread (we have some disagreement on revan but haven't made it a priority to hash it out either in PT or in thread yet), so until/unless dissonance becomes an in-thread problem, I'm not especially concerned with the possibility.

-M

[Sesq]

[quote="In post 273

Sesq

hit my radar solidly at 130. Others have mentioned and I agree the “why am I getting wagonned for what others have done” sentiment feels like scum expressing “caught for the wrong reasons” frustration. The sudden “here is my full reads list” also feels scum who didn’t realize skating by in the early game was not going to work for and 180ed into a “Super Town Mode”. Then let’s talk about the following posts –

Also, the one post that people seem to think is scummy (the one where I re-voted on Doom) was because he had those "lol im beginner" post, and thinking i was trying to wagon despite it being within the first 3 votes out of 7 required for lynch. Also, I was re-voting from what was technically pre-game, which I was unaware of.

Let’s look at the original vote in question –

VOTE: doomfeathers For tossing shade on me with no evidence.

And a quick follow-up post –

This is clearly OMGUS.

VOTE: Sesq

That was the most reasoning you'll ever see out of RVS.

I don’t see “He was LAMIST posting” in this original vote and the followup basically says “No reasoning to be had”. Even his revote didn’t say “Doom was LAMIST posting”. That logic only appeared after Sesq got pressure for the revote and piggybacked off other people’s logic (my own).

My post 15 was RVS (and not technically part of the game yet). My second vote on him was based on his LAMIST stuff.

No it wasn’t. 57 and 64 both say it was “same reasoning as earlier vote” which quoted above was “tossing shade”. Nothing about LAMIST at all. Looks very much like retroactive attempt to justify the bad hop on Doom.[/quote]

"Caught for the wrong reasons"? What does that even mean? The reason I posted my reads then is because up until that point I wasn't actually being serious about the game at all. What prompted this was a message by wgeurts telling me to read the thread.

The original vote was RVS and wasn't intended as a serious vote. The vote afterward - actually fuck it, I've explained this like 8 times, read the fucking thread. I don't want my ISO to be me explaining stupid RVS bullshit to every other person in the game.

The one thing you bring up that I didn't realize was 64. I definitely, distinctly remember voting doomfeathers for his LAMIST bs. Maybe I wasn't all in control then, idk.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have no idea why doom would know this. His whole approach there seems consistent with the idea that the timing is important information; do you have reason to think he's faking it?

Um no ... the point of that was to enlighten him that his approach to the Daykill based on who was online is flawed. At this stage given the large amount of newb-posting by Doom on other topics I don't think it is him faking (and I don't think it is alignment indicative either).

[Sesq]

I realize I'm coming up as angry in my previous response. The reason is that I hate having to repeat myself a million times and I want to actually look at something new in the game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

"Caught for the wrong reasons"? What does that even mean? The reason I posted my reads then is because up until that point I wasn't actually being serious about the game at all. What prompted this was a message by wgeurts telling me to read the thread.

The original vote was RVS and wasn't intended as a serious vote. The vote afterward - actually fuck it, I've explained this like 8 times, read the fucking thread. I don't want my ISO to be me explaining stupid RVS bullshit to every other person in the game.

The one thing you bring up that I didn't realize was 64. I definitely, distinctly remember voting doomfeathers for his LAMIST bs. Maybe I wasn't all in control then, idk.

I think "caught for the wrong reasons" is pretty self explanatory - it is the feeling scum get when they get attention in the way of pressure that they don't feel makes sense. In your case it seems to be getting flack for something you seem to think multiple other players are guilty of as well.

The rest of this is terrible hand-waving. I have read the thread. Your desire to have the issue just go away doesn't really concern me. Your "recollection" doesn't line up with anything posted in thread. And now you are trying to peddle "I was sure I did it for that reason" and "Oh, I wasn't being serious" as explanations. Not convincing at all.

[Revan]

Wow, I'm a little bit embarrassed that I asked that. Moving on.

[Revan]

havingfitz are you caught up yet?

[Sesq]

"Caught for the wrong reasons"? What does that even mean? The reason I posted my reads then is because up until that point I wasn't actually being serious about the game at all. What prompted this was a message by wgeurts telling me to read the thread.

The original vote was RVS and wasn't intended as a serious vote. The vote afterward - actually fuck it, I've explained this like 8 times, read the fucking thread. I don't want my ISO to be me explaining stupid RVS bullshit to every other person in the game.

The one thing you bring up that I didn't realize was 64. I definitely, distinctly remember voting doomfeathers for his LAMIST bs. Maybe I wasn't all in control then, idk.

I think "caught for the wrong reasons" is pretty self explanatory - it is the feeling scum get when they get attention in the way of pressure that they don't feel makes sense. In your case it seems to be getting flack for something you seem to think multiple other players are guilty of as well.

The rest of this is terrible hand-waving. I have read the thread. Your desire to have the issue just go away doesn't really concern me. Your "recollection" doesn't line up with anything posted in thread. And now you are trying to peddle "I was sure I did it for that reason" and "Oh, I wasn't being serious" as explanations. Not convincing at all.

I kinda realized I've been an idiot just now, hehe. It really wasn't the same reasons with me, as Revan or FC didn't have that RVS stuff.

I was completely and entirely aware it looked like terrible handwaving, but really what else am I going to do? I've already set myself up in a terrible position and it doesn't look like there's a way out other than by extreme chance. I'd vote myself to be honest. Maybe if FC gets too much. I am a new player, but I do not wish to hide behind that. Scum do have daychat in this game, so I don't think my kind of play would have went through with that, no?

I'd also like to apologize for coming off as an angry asshole. Because I was an angry asshole.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Scum do have daychat in this game, so I don't think my kind of play would have went through with that, no?

Ummm ... since when does scum having daychat mean that scum are prevented from making bad in thread posts again? Daychat isn't some magical salve that sooths all problems for the scum team. In fact the usefulness of it is directly proportional to the ability of the scum team and their willingness to use it.

[Sesq]

Scum do have daychat in this game, so I don't think my kind of play would have went through with that, no?

Ummm ... since when does scum having daychat mean that scum are prevented from making bad in thread posts again? Daychat isn't some magical salve that sooths all problems for the scum team. In fact the usefulness of it is directly proportional to the ability of the scum team and their willingness to use it.

I do suppose most of the stupidity happened well before anything would have been established.

I'm accepting defeat at the hands of my own stupidity and laziness here.

[mozamis]

The contradiction was Revan saying "We should look for DK stuff, but I'm not doing it." Mozamis backing Revan up looks like scum play now I think about it. 241 did look town, or at least unplanned.

Pretty sure this is bollocks. Revan was pretty clear that he didnt think any OF US should analyze the day kill. And he defintely wasn't going to partake.
I think you are panicing scum.

VOTE SESQ

p.s would rather a sesq lycnh as i actually think he is scum. As opposed to FC who i have no clear read on, but people who i think are town seem convinced of his scumminess.
Ideal from my point of view would be for everyone to transfer from FC wagon to sesq wagon.

[MagnaofIllusion]

p.s would rather a sesq lycnh as i actually think he is scum. As opposed to FC who i have no clear read on, but people who i think are town seem convinced of his scumminess.

I posted a signficant amount of verbiage explaining my FC scum read. Did you just not read it? If you did read it do you disagree (and if so please point out what you feel I am misreading)?

Should I be concerned that your idea action seems to align at least as much with voting out someone with a scum read on you as opposed to someone not scum reading you (FC)?

[Sesq]

The contradiction was Revan saying "We should look for DK stuff, but I'm not doing it." Mozamis backing Revan up looks like scum play now I think about it. 241 did look town, or at least unplanned.

Pretty sure this is bollocks. Revan was pretty clear that he didnt think any OF US should analyze the day kill. And he defintely wasn't going to partake.
I think you are panicing scum.

VOTE SESQ

p.s would rather a sesq lycnh as i actually think he is scum. As opposed to FC who i have no clear read on, but people who i think are town seem convinced of his scumminess.
Ideal from my point of view would be for everyone to transfer from FC wagon to sesq wagon.

No. What happened was Revan said that UD was correct about DK being a good place to look for scum, and then stubbornly refused not to do so themselves. Why does this mean I'm panicing scum? If there's more context to this I'd like to see it.

Also I'm a girl. BLAAAH

[Revan]

I never said it was a good place to look for scum, I just agreed with one of UD's statements which I will quote.

[Revan]

Anything might lead to a town lynch. How is DK analysis in particular more likely to lead to a town lynch?
-M

[mozamis]

I skimmed your case, sorry, being lazy
having gone back over it, my feeling is that you are probably on the right track.
E.g.:

However there is scum motivation to appear like scum-hunting while not wanting to antagonize the person you effectively FOS.

is a good point. His "nullscum read" of Superhand seemed like someone trying to put down some sort of read without - as you say - making waves.
All in all, he does seem very blendy.
That's kinda my problem with your case though, and its not really your fault, because he is so blendy. And thus, there isnt THAT much of a case to go on ATM.
So while my gut is telling me he could be scum (his posts are remarkably content free), I'm more convinced of Sesq, simply because I feel he has actually given himself away.
And i wasn't aware who FC was vtoing for, which you may believe or not, as you wish. *alec guinness voice*

[Sesq]

he

learn to read please

Anyway, I'm totally aware I did stupid shit and I'm expecting to be lynched now.

[mozamis]

I'm expecting to be lynched now.

cool, everyone's happy then

[Sesq]

I'm expecting to be lynched now.

cool, everyone's happy then

Except for the people that townread me

[lucca261]

Hey guys, I'm V/LA until 18/1. Maybe I'll enter just to check, but will be hard, because of internet issues.

I don't know how I'm supposed to announce, but I think this and PMing the mod will serve.

I will be back.

---

sorry for it, but I'm going to travel and all. sorry for the timing.

[wgeurts]

I'm expecting to be lynched now.

cool, everyone's happy then

Except for the people that townread me

This is a really off comment to make.

[Sesq]

I'm expecting to be lynched now.

cool, everyone's happy then

Except for the people that townread me

This is a really off comment to make.

In what way?

Unless you're implying nobody townreads me, save for myself of course. Even then I'm starting to think I may have misread my Role PM on accident.