Mini 536: Heroes Smalltown. Game Over!

[Gorgon]

noted:
Gorgon agrees with ZA, but keeps vote on him.

I usually don't unvote unless I fear a premature lynch. Also, there is no one I wish to vote for right now in place of ZA, so I'm keeping my vote for now. I have absolutely no worries about leaving someone at 2 votes, especially since the current trend in this game (for some reason) seems to be to FOS instead of voting. I admit that my suspicion of ZA has lessened, though.

noted:
Gorgon is passive aggressively telling me who I should target and who I shouldnt target. Dont worry, most likely I will not use my "power" to protect..as you say we have doctor for that...I am going to target who i think is scum...if you have a problem with that...maybe you need to "answer for that"...

What, so you're saying that me saying it would be a bad idea for you to target investigative roles is bad? I don't think there was anything passive aggressive about it, either. I wasn't talking to you ... merely disagreeing with shaft.ed that targeting investigative roles would be a potentially viable strategy for you as scum. Also, I believe we've gone over this before; general discussion of optimal strategy and the application of roles is not telling you what to do.

Btw, no, I don't have much of a problem with you locking up someone you think is scum (this is assuming you're town), except that would only be your guess - it would only really be effective if you happened to pick the scum who does the NK, so you'd not only have to guess the scum, but also the NK'er ... or pick Sylar, of course. All this really boils down to your own personal scumdar. However, powers are something that you have solid information about right now, and I can't help but think that this should influence your choice somewhat. DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO; I'M OFFERING YOU ADVICE, OK?

[curiouskarmadog]

advice taken

[Thestatusquo]

Wait, DAS, when did I "needlessly insult" ZA?

[Gorgon]

OK - am I correct in assuming that there has only been one real smalltown game here before?

Looking for a games with Smalltown in their title, I could only find something that's called Smalltown 2: Scrubs Mafia (Coney Island) and another game called just Smalltwon Mafia (Little Italy). Scrubs was a genuine smalltown game, but the other one was just a standard themeless mini. Also, Scrubs was a night start game, and three people got killed that night. It therefore doesn't compare with this one, as there was plenty to go on at the start of the first day.

Am I missing something here?

[Thestatusquo]

I'm confused about what you're driving at here.

[Gorgon]

Well, I said I was going to check out older smalltown games to see how the first day went, seeing that some people (Read: ZA) lean towards a no lynch today ... but that's all I could come up with. If there was an older daystart smalltown game, this would probably have been discussed and resolved back then - but it looks like there isn't.

[Seol]

OK - am I correct in assuming that there has only been one real smalltown game here before?

Looking for a games with Smalltown in their title, I could only find something that's called Smalltown 2: Scrubs Mafia (Coney Island) and another game called just Smalltwon Mafia (Little Italy). Scrubs was a genuine smalltown game, but the other one was just a standard themeless mini. Also, Scrubs was a night start game, and three people got killed that night. It therefore doesn't compare with this one, as there was plenty to go on at the start of the first day.

Am I missing something here?

There have been two Smalltown games, this was the first and Scrubs was the second. The original was also a "real" Smalltown game (albeit unthemed) as it had the defining characteristic of open roles with everyone's role known, but alignment seperate from role.

As far as I know, these aren't just the only two games run here - they're the only two games run

anywhere

. Adele invented the format and I'm not aware of the concept being appropriated elsewhere.

[Gorgon]

Thanks a bunch, Seol.

That first game was also a night start, so also not that comparable to this one with respect to the information available day one.

[Thestatusquo]

In my opinion...No lynching is just silly. The biggest harm bandwagoning d1 can do to the town is out poweroles...Well, guess what, we don't have to worry about that. Just because you can't get a claim out of someone doesn't mean that a good ol' fashioned bandwagon isn't healthy, and good for reads. In addition, we need to lynch eventually. We're never going to find scums by just evaluating night actions, you find scums by reading wagons and lynches and who stayed off and who pressured without voting etc etc etc etc. Giving up the towns biggest means towards gathering concrete data is, IMHO, Stupid.

[shaft.ed]

OK, so it seems as though this is the first smalltown to deal with a day start. I still think we can use our lynch (or threat of) to:

-create some interactions to better guide night choices going into N1
-create some information on which interpretations of night actions can be based D2
-eliminate or intimidate dangerous power roles
-pressure possible scum into giving tells

Basically I don't think this entire game should boil down to interpretations of night actions.

[shaft.ed]

Cross-posted with TSQ. I agree, just because bandwagon's are traditionally used to force claims doesn't mean we should abandon them.

[Thestatusquo]

I think you claiming that a post 18 minutes later was a "cross post" is a tad disingenuous.

[mathcam]

Interesting analysis of no lynch so far -- I see merit in both cases being made. I guess I'd argue that not lynching today doesn't mean we're going to be basing our decisions solely on night choices. It means that we're waiting until tomorrow to more intelligently make our choices of who to bandwagon and how to read in to other people's decisions regarding those bandwagons,

I think my top three choices right now are Oman, JDodge, and No Lynch, not necessarily in that order.

Cam

[shaft.ed]

I think you claiming that a post 18 minutes later was a "cross post" is a tad disingenuous.

I was reading another thread while posting. What's to be gained by faking a cross post over something like that anyway?

[Thestatusquo]

Well, for one thing I am already suspicious of how you've seemed to parrot me this game, even going so far as to answer a question that was directed at me. It seems like a convienient way to buddy up to me while seeming like it was your own logic.

Mathcam, want to explain why those two players are up there for you?

[shaft.ed]

If you read my post that was cross-posted with yours it contains no sentiments that were in your first post, and I believe it is a better argument for entertaining a lynch today than yours and presented in a less confrontational manner which Zonace, the player suggesting the No Lynch, seems more inclined to respond to (imagine that). I simply stated that I agreed with your point which was separate from mine. Further, I have been pushing against a no lynch since it was suggested so don't go telling me I am parroting your ideas on this subject.

I notice you have a problem with people "answering questions for you." I tend to do this all the time because I am on the board too much and enjoy being involved in conversation. I admit I did it on one occasion in this game with a question directed to you and clearly stated while I was posting that I did not intend to speak for you. I now realize that it is a bad play and you have demonstrated to me that certain players are very paranoid about it. So I will not be answering anyone else's questions in any of my games from now on. Thank you for the advice on this topic.

[Adele]

In my opinion...No lynching is just silly.

QFT. Nolynch FTL.

I notice you have a problem with people "answering questions for you." I tend to do this all the time because I am on the board too much and enjoy being involved in conversation. I admit I did it on one occasion in this game with a question directed to you and clearly stated while I was posting that I did not intend to speak for you. I now realize that it is a bad play and you have demonstrated to me that certain players are very paranoid about it. So I will not be answering anyone else's questions in any of my games from now on. Thank you for the advice on this topic.

eh, they'll live. If a question's out there, why not throw in your twopennorth? They can't exactly claim it's a "private conversation" - you're giving your opinion, which is your

job

, and the fact that there happened to be a question dealing with the same issue that triggered your ideas, well, who cares?. Me, I'll answer any question I want to, as a rule - though I might stick a disclaimer in ("Well,

I

reckon...")

And, I buy shaft.ed's cross-post claim. If it were a deliberate follow I think it would've come through quicker, and there have certainly been plenty of times when I've gone half an hour constructing a post without updating the page.

What's the votecount at?

[mathcam]

Mathcam, want to explain why those two players are up there for you?

Meh, not really, insofar as I don't have much insight to hand out. I don't have particularly pro-town vibes for them, whereas I do for some other people. Notably, Oman's "we'll TRUST her" post seems like fake overconcern for the town, and -- hm, I don't know why I had JDodge there, except that I previously said I found him mildly scummy. In any case, completely independently, they are also the two roles ranked most anti-town by shaft.ed's post 271.

Cam

[Thestatusquo]

I'd like a prod on Jdodge and oman, actually. I can't recall hearing anything relevant from either of them lately.

[Thestatusquo]

Mathcam, want to explain why those two players are up there for you?

Meh, not really, insofar as I don't have much insight to hand out. I don't have particularly pro-town vibes for them, whereas I do for some other people. Notably, Oman's "we'll TRUST her" post seems like fake overconcern for the town, and -- hm, I don't know why I had JDodge there, except that I previously said I found him mildly scummy. In any case, completely independently, they are also the two roles ranked most anti-town by shaft.ed's post 271.

Cam

if oman does come up scum at any point, that would probably clear adele in my mind, because I can't see oman warning the town about giving his scumbuddy extra powers, especially as stretching as he was.

[shaft.ed]

if oman does come up scum at any point, that would probably clear adele in my mind, because I can't see oman warning the town about giving his scumbuddy extra powers, especially as stretching as he was.

I wouldn't go that far. If Oman had any brain power he would have seen the town was reacting to his viewpoint negatively and accordingly players have (at least I have) rallied around the towniness of Adele (or simply her role). He may have been doing that to make her look better. Either way I'd call it a null tell.


JDodge, I know you're a busy guy but show this thread some love please.

Oman, you're posting very infrequently for someone with 14.77 posts per day.

Zindaras, are you alive, do we need to send the police to your house?



*disclaimer, this post in no way reflects the views of TSQ. The desire to receive contributions from the players stated above was entirely born of my own free will. Any similarities to the wishes of TSQ are purely coincidental.

[Thestatusquo]

The statement "If oman had any brain power" Is a tenuous one at best.

[davidangelsummers]

--DAS, could you address Matchcam's point about players changing their minds often. I agree with him especially in this early stage of the game.

On a separate note, I'm generally against lynching based on the number of time a vote has been switched. I don't find it particularly scummy -- first of all, it's high profile, and second of all, it reflects the townie's plight of not knowing who scum are (which contrasts to the scum position of knowing who non-scum are and just pretending not to know scum). Vote-switching is frequently just a sign of uncertainty, something which townies should have a lot of.

.

Sure thing Shaft... Ididnt say I wanted to Lynch him cuz of the flip\flop of voteing I said I wanted to Fos him for it. Why,? cuz I think that he

might

be trying to use any reason to vote someone rather then being uncertain.

[JDodge]

Going back through, commenting on what I feel to be important to comment on.

Dodge, please explain what you didn't like about those posts?

I already did

I'm a confirmed townie, the only one I know. Why wouldn't I want to do that?

I dislike the way this is said

By that I assume you mean how he said "I'm a confirmed townie." instead of something along the lines of "I'm the only player I know to be town." If thats the case, I think that's complete bunk.

Yes. I do mean that in the sense that he said "I'm a confirmed townie."

Posts 166-170:I am reminded of how much I despise ZONEFACE's playstyle (or lack thereof). He shouldn't have reacted that way to being asked to answer questions; however, I agree with Adele that the questions seem more like an angry rant.

Post 178:

Also, mathcam's post doesn't seem relevant to me, as its a hypothetical that isn't well...relevant.

much like in Dethy-type games.

They're also not fun.

Ugh. How is submitting a relatively decent-sounding strategy to the town that could indeed help us catch scum with relatively little effort in any way irrelevant? Are you afraid of investigative roles for some odd reason?

CKD's 186 is incredibly unsettling. And his 192.

Regarding 234:

Can the rest of the town please comment on whats going on between zoneace and myself right now.

ZONEFACE is being his usual obnoxious self.

Oh joy

. You're getting a bit too worked up over it; but I understand your frustration.

Post 271 is the main post I want to address, specifically a few big points in shaft.ed's analysis of role towniness:

JDodge: The only pro-town use of this role I could think of was keeping Oman in check, or blocking me from aiding scum powers like Oman's if we were aligned. However, there are a lot of anti-town things he can do with his powers, and he is inherently untrackable. Rank Anti-Town.

As well as being 1 of only two people who can prevent Adele from gaining powers (I think), preventing a possible scum-Linderman from protecting his buddies and preventing a scum-Nathan from helping his buddies.

Me: Basically an extra investigation/Doc protection for the town if myself and the target both survive the night. Could wreak extra havoc if aligned with Oman. Rank Slightly Pro-Town.

You could wreak extra havoc if aligned with

anyone

, really.

Adele: A depository of useful town power roles if town alighned. Can also become an extra independent investigator/Doc starting N2. Only useful antitown if receiving Oman's power. Rank Pro-Town.

Or can be hell later on if she's scum. Furthermore, her role is hardly "pro-town" until she actually has some powers - as it stands, she's essentially vanilla until we've had a night.

Sorry for the relatively half-assed post; but it was all I felt worthy of commenting on.

[shaft.ed]

Post 271 is the main post I want to address, specifically a few big points in shaft.ed's analysis of role towniness:

JDodge: The only pro-town use of this role I could think of was keeping Oman in check, or blocking me from aiding scum powers like Oman's if we were aligned. However, there are a lot of anti-town things he can do with his powers, and he is inherently untrackable. Rank Anti-Town.

As well as being 1 of only two people who can prevent Adele from gaining powers (I think), preventing a possible scum-Linderman from protecting his buddies and preventing a scum-Nathan from helping his buddies.

Outside of Oman's power I don't really see any power Adele can gain as being antitown unless there's some crazy Me, Oman, Adele scum group. Linderman only protects against mafia kills so scum-protection really won't do anything. Therefore, if you block Linderman I will vehemently call for your lynch. I already mentioned the potential of you blocking me up there.

Me: Basically an extra investigation/Doc protection for the town if myself and the target both survive the night. Could wreak extra havoc if aligned with Oman. Rank Slightly Pro-Town.

You could wreak extra havoc if aligned with

anyone

, really.

Can you please name a power that I can motivate besides Oman's that has a negative effect on the town (and Adele using Oman's power doesn't count).

Adele: A depository of useful town power roles if town alighned. Can also become an extra independent investigator/Doc starting N2. Only useful antitown if receiving Oman's power. Rank Pro-Town.

Or can be hell later on if she's scum. Furthermore, her role is hardly "pro-town" until she actually has some powers - as it stands, she's essentially vanilla until we've had a night.

Again outside of Oman, the powers that Adele can absorb are all pro town. But you did bring up something I forgot about. Adele is essentially a one shot alarm system. So if she has been tracked she will know it. This will allow her to get her story straight if she is scum that's done something bad. I still don't see here being incredibly powerful in the late game, unless your perspective is from the scums bench.

Just to remind everyone the powers that I can motivate, Adele can absorb and Oman can redirect are limited to:
Motivation
Mafia Kill Protection
Tracking
Watching
Redirection of above powers*

*Redirection will also work on Mathcam's suicide vig'ing but only if used during the night phase.


Anyway, why aren't more people voting for Oman?