Mini 532: Yaw's Split Open Mafia: (Game over)

[Off the Mark]

Seems a few people are falling out of you trusted townie group. Could you provide an updated list to which you generated in 278.

What's the point, so you can nitpick me some more? I'm getting rather sick of being in the spotlight for no reason. Obviously I no longer trust SensFan at all, and I am slightly suspicious of Phate too... not sure what to think about him at this point. Whatever his alignment, he is annoying.

[Zhao]

Seems a few people are falling out of you trusted townie group. Could you provide an updated list to which you generated in 278.

What's the point, so you can nitpick me some more? I'm getting rather sick of being in the spotlight for no reason. Obviously I no longer trust SensFan at all, and I am slightly suspicious of Phate too... not sure what to think about him at this point. Whatever his alignment, he is annoying.

You've answered all my questions, why so testy?

I just wanted to see where everyone stood, so I can try to see things from your perspective. I don't have the tunnel-vision for your lynch as Korlash claimed.

If you want to stop acting pro-town, then I won't bother and just assume you are indeed mafia.

[Zhao]

... Define a few?

Define strawmanning.

[Holy]

... Zhao seems to equate bad plan with scum, which seems disingenuous to me, and

not a true townie-thought-process

, so I became suspicious when Zhao said Phate was suspicious. Sure, scum could come up with a bad plan that would benefit scum more than town, but that is SO risky, and

Phate's plan doesn't strike me that way.

QFT...

True, if you followed the plan that thrown by Phate and truly tried to analyze the plan cons/pros, Zhao's posted thoughts to me seems like not following that 'townie-thought-process'. Although there's a possibility Phate is scum with such 'a plan', but yeah... his plan doesn't seems like a red alert for me too.

I also feel that you potentially fit into the role of "scum leading town" by working on the OTM lynch, you think that that gets you off the hook. I'm not saying this is true, I just think that, by Killing OTM, I have the best ability to examine you, not to mention his own, innate, scumminess.

I didn't understand these...
From your words, you seem like stating that OTM would come out as townie which has a scum driven lynch How could you be so sure? Even I can't really tell whether OTM is townie or scum.

Even

you? What do you mean by that?

Even I (While I?)> I as an uninformed townie can never be sure about OTM's alignment, even though I feel the same with him about why Zhao seems scummy. So, Than's words about a "scum leading town" that gets off the hook by working on the OTM lynch confused me a bit (scum lead, means a townie lynched??), uh huh... we're still at the middle of the Day here...
Ah well, I'm bad at explaining things which I too actually confused at. It just feels there's something wrong with what Than said. He said Phate feels potentially fit into the role of "scum leading town", but his feelings could change thus the player that potentially fit as "scum leading town" could be anybody. Yet, he is too at the OTM wagon after all that sayings. Ah, crap! I was sleepy when posting that. But yeah..., after I read and think it over, I still don't like his sayings. It feels wishy washy,

unvote, vote: Thanatos

.

His full post:

QuickBen, I agree with you completely.

Thanatos, you say that my planning and "stubberness" is detrimental, without explaining why, and I can more-or-less handle that. And you say I'm hunting scum, which I'm glad you realise.

But how do you go straight from, "Well, Phate's too stubborn but he is hunting scum, and OTM has commited this entire list of scumtells over here, so surely at least one of them must be scum."

You'd cooled down on my suspicion list a bit, but if we lynch OTM today, I'll be voting for you D2.

Because I feel like OTM started out clinging to you specificly, until you began strong distancing. I also feel that you potentially fit into the role of "scum leading town" by working on the OTM lynch, you think that that gets you off the hook. I'm not saying this is true, I just think that, by Killing OTM, I have the best ability to examine you, not to mention his own, innate, scumminess.

[Holy]

For the record, I haven't let Zhao off the hook, I'm still watching him. He's phishing a lot...

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
Off the Mark (5): Panzerjager, Phate, Thantos, SensFan, Zhao
Thantos (1): Holy
Phate (1): Korlash
Panzerjager (1): Off the Mark

Not Voting (4): kabenon007, QuickBen, Jex, DrunkenPiper

With 12 alive it is 7 to lynch.

[QuickBen]

Will re-read this evening and see if I can't get a feeling for where I stand on things.

[Zhao]

For the record, I haven't let Zhao off the hook, I'm still watching him. He's phishing a lot...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you think I'm scummy because I disagreed with Phate's plan and said he was suspcious?

Besides myself, who else do you find suspicious?

[Off the Mark]

vote: Panzerjager

since the mod is missing it

Fixed.

[Korlash]

Define strawmanning.

Wow... Are you that dense you have to avoid even a simple statement... Look The only person I ever saw you bring up was Phate. That equals one to me. Give me enough to qualify as "A few"

And, Just for S&G:

(taken from the Wiki) "Strawmanning" involves taking a small piece of the case someone has built up that is weaker than their other points and blowing it up. They can then defeat the weaker point and use that as 'proof' that everything that person has said is wrong.

I find it a little hard to think my little question about a few qualifies as strawmanning, especially seeing as how in my mind it was a legit question.

Now... Would you mind please explaining your "A few" to me. Phate is one. One =/= a few.

If you want to stop acting pro-town, then I won't bother and just assume you are indeed mafia.

*laughs* Ahhh... Kinda of funny... First you say he answers all your questions, now your implying he is not acting "Pro-Town" can I get some examples of this. Reasons behind this statement. Perhaps evidence you do not already assume he is mafia as that is how it appears.

Ahh man this game is interesting... For all Zhao's yaking I feel he is town. For all OTM"s crappy defenses I still don't like his lynch. Even Phate, the guy who came up with such an obviously pro-town plan ... I still find him the best lynch.

Hmmm... Maybe my read is off this game...

[Thanatos]

I think Holy is putting too much emphsis on my feelings on Phate, which in and of it self is little more than me being confused about him.

For now, Korlash, I want to observe Phate. I don't get strong scum vibes off of Zhao. I get decent vibes off of you, because I think your pretty consistent. OTM is consistently scummy, and I want to see him hang. I don't get much off of anyone else, though.

[QuickBen]

Ok, I skimmed the thread last night and can't say that OTM has really cleared himself to me. He has the distinct look of scum on the hook who is thrashing around and trying to launch accusations in every direction. I feel comfortable putting him at L-1.

vote OTM

[kabenon007]

Whoa dang! You skimmed the thread... and that makes you feel comfortable putting someone at -1? -1 is not something to be skimmed into. It needs to have been thought out. I can't say that I'm not happy to see another vote on him, cuz I was going to do the same myself, but I have been pondering this for awhile. It seems like you, QuickBen, have decided to be, um, a little too quick. (haha)

[Holy]

For the record, I haven't let Zhao off the hook, I'm still watching him. He's phishing a lot...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you think I'm scummy because I disagreed with Phate's plan and said he was suspcious?

Besides myself, who else do you find suspicious?

Not because your disagreement with the plan, that plan indeed had flaws although if there's not too much WIFOM in it it may works good for the town if you really follow the thought process. So, it's more from the discussion process, your reactions along the plan whether it was pro/cons.
And because lately you're phishing a lot too.

Huh! Suspicious? All of you of course.
Well, actually you are the most suspicious player for me, but I'm the only one that sustain your case it seems.

I think Holy is putting too much emphsis on my feelings on Phate, which in and of it self is little more than me being confused about him.

Yeah, I may be hallucinating at that time, lol.
Your play do reminds me of a scum-cop probability. Yeah, based from my experience with my dear scum, Korlash...

[Korlash]

Actually I think this is perfect. I have been looking for a third scum to put into my "theory" and I have never really liked Qb's playing. Hmmm... Him, phate, and Panzer... The more i think about it the less likely it seems. I'll be interested in seeing just how far off I was when this game ends...

But yeah, on a more down to Earth level, QB that's a pretty stupid thing you just did. So I want to hear more form you as to exactly WHY you voted OTM, and I am still waiting to hear more form Panzer.

[Zhao]

Wow... Are you that dense you have to avoid even a simple statement... Look The only person I ever saw you bring up was Phate. That equals one to me. Give me enough to qualify as "A few"

You constantly answer my posts in an abrasive and mocking manner so I want to be difficult. It’s childish but satisfying.

Phate
SensFan

I thought he mentioned Drunken Piper some time ago but that was someone else. So it’s not a few, unless you consider two = few.

*laughs* Ahhh... Kinda of funny... First you say he answers all your questions, now your implying he is not acting "Pro-Town" can I get some examples of this. Reasons behind this statement. Perhaps evidence you do not already assume he is mafia as that is how it appears.

You are ignorant Korlash. Yes, he answered my questions, but the caveat was he didn’t answer them to my satisfaction. Him providing a listing of everyone and his take on their alignment is Pro-town since it’s more information we can use. If he is lynched and revealed mafia, we might be able to the information from his 2 lists to do some extrapolation possibly getting leads on who his partners are.

So yes, I was trying to bait OTM to produce his second list so that we may use it in the future. Unfortunately he ceases to cooperate.

Ahh man this game is interesting... For all Zhao's yaking I feel he is town. For all OTM"s crappy defenses I still don't like his lynch. Even Phate, the guy who came up with such an obviously pro-town plan ... I still find him the best lynch.

Since you want to slow down the OTM lynch, will you be providing any material that might exonerate him? Or you just all talk?

Not because your disagreement with the plan, that plan indeed had flaws although if there's not too much WIFOM in it it may works good for the town if you really follow the thought process. So, it's more from the discussion process, your reactions along the plan whether it was pro/cons.
And because lately you're phishing a lot too.

Show me.

[Off the Mark]

Zhao is either a really bad player or scum. I'm leaning towards bad player at this point.

I'm thinking most likely to be scum at this point are Panzer, SensFan, and QuickBen. QuickBen's L-1 vote for me after a quick "skim" of the thread is ridiculous and deserves serious attention. If you're town and you're on my bandwagon, you need to seriously consider whether I am truly the scummiest here. (hint: I'm not, since I'm town) I have tried to show you how SensFan and Panzer are scummy, and now QuickBen has pulled the scummiest move of all, and yet somehow I am still in the spotlight.

I'm unpowered, by the way, not that claiming will change anyone's mind.

[Off the Mark]

Also, can someone explain to me this:

What have I done wrong to appear so scummy? For those of you that actually think I'm scum, answer the question this way: Assuming OTM is town, what could he have done better to convince you he is not scum?

I feel I've done all I could and your suspicions haven't changed, which makes me think this town is doomed, with all of you playing so one-track-mindedly.

I have explained my actions. Most of them come down to simple misinterpretation, or just lack of initial explanation with the explanation coming later. And for this I'm going to swing from a tree? I really don't get it. The sad part is, I think most who have really pushed hard on my wagon are mistaken/bad-playing townies, rather than scum. Zhao, Thanatos, kabenon, Phate, you guys all stink at this.

[kabenon007]

Um, you realize that the fact that the explanation came later is not a point for you, OTM? If you had posted the explanation first and not waited for us to ask, we could assume that the explanation is true. But if the explanation is posted after we asked you to clarify, mutiple times, I believe, it could be assumed that those explanations were just tacked on once you realized that they were needed. However, I do not think you are the scummiest at the moment. You are second in my mind. QuickBen, you really messed up on this one.

unvote, vote: QuickBen

I don't think I was voting, but just in case. His skim vote is just what scum would do, because scum do not really have to read the thread, because they don't have to find evidence of scummy behavior.

[Drunken Piper]

drunken piper: comes out as a townie even though korlash has already done that. Why the need to say you are powerless?

Maybe I have lost my sense,
But can you please quote me for this reference?

As for the Sens thing what don't you get? You post at least 5+ times more then he does. You should have at least 5+ more then him to say about why OTM should be lynched, yet you don't.

I read this twice, and thought “Really?”,
because this statement seems quite silly.

Whoa dang! You skimmed the thread... and that makes you feel comfortable putting someone at -1? -1 is not something to be skimmed into. It needs to have been thought out. I can't say that I'm not happy to see another vote on him, cuz I was going to do the same myself, but I have been pondering this for awhile. It seems like you, QuickBen, have decided to be, um, a little too quick. (haha)

Um, you realize that the fact that the explanation came later is not a point for you, OTM? If you had posted the explanation first and not waited for us to ask, we could assume that the explanation is true. But if the explanation is posted after we asked you to clarify, mutiple times, I believe, it could be assumed that those explanations were just tacked on once you realized that they were needed. However, I do not think you are the scummiest at the moment. You are second in my mind. QuickBen, you really messed up on this one.

unvote, vote: QuickBen

you continue to attack OTM and even mention you would put him at –1.
You continue to suggest that he is scummy, but your vote on him equals none.

Why does this seem like you don’t want to vote for OTM’s hanging.
But screaming his scumminess, with loud clanging and banging.

Please tell me what QuickBen did to mess up,
I think your play is bad, young pup.

Vote Kabenon.

[Korlash]

I thought he mentioned Drunken Piper some time ago but that was someone else. So it’s not a few, unless you consider two = few.

Yeah... that is a few to me. Was that so hard?

Since you want to slow down the OTM lynch, will you be providing any material that might exonerate him? Or you just all talk?

I don't need to. With at least half the people on the wagon seemingly only having the excuse "I agree with the others and OTM is scummy, Vote: OTM" I really do not see his lynch happening anytime soon. Besides, he's a big boy. he can take scare of himself... i hope...

And does anyone else feel the urge to lynch DP just to shut him up?

[kabenon007]

Um, a vote that puts OTM at -1 just off of a whim? Scummier than anything that OTM has done so far. Scum do not have to read, they only need to skim to pick up the jist of the posts, and after QuickBen skims, he puts OTM at -1. Definitely not a town move.

[Drunken Piper]

Just going out on a limb,
but why would Quickben tell us that he did skim?

And you yourself keep claiming OTM is not town.
but you have yet to place a vote down.

Answer this guy,
Why?

[kabenon007]

Well, if you had read my post, you would have seen that I said I was planning on putting OTM at -1 myself, but QuickBen beat me to it. And I don't feel confident enough yet to lynch OTM. The reason I think he is scum is because he voted after just skimming. I was planning on voting after much deliberation. A scum could just vote for the majority to seem like they are scumhunting easily enough.

And here is where QuickBen said he skimmed it:

Ok, I skimmed the thread last night

[Korlash]

I agree with Kabenon. hmmm... I like 007 better... It's easier to type...

Take two...

I agree with James... Dammit! >.> I agree with that guy. Admitting you only skimmed and voted the majority is just plain anti-town. If you honestly think OTM is scum, I think everyone (Directed more at the others and not Phate and Zhao) should give some insight as to why they feel OTM needs to be lynched. In fact, if Pnazer continues to not say anything I will most likely change my vote to him. He did say he would be gone did he?