Mini Normal 1854: Game Over

[Joshz]

gamma, what are your thoughts on twoface? what do you think scum team is if aj is lynched and flips town? how confident are you in that scum team if you are hypothetically lynched and this is your last will to town?

[Joshz]

supertown = not scum, or how does that weigh up? out of aristo and sonia who is more likely scum in your opinion?

[Joshz]

good. gonna pause for a sec. this is not active lurking empking. the goal of questions to generate discussion. discussion is good! now see where its progressing? i am not the strongest at reading due to experience and lack of meta knowledge; i know that. i can be helpful to town by guiding discussions. you can call it flying under the radar if you really want, but all ive done is generate pro town discussion. discussing scum!josh is good! discussing scum!empking is good! discussing anything is good as long as discussions dont descend into spammy madness like i have seen recently.

if yall wanna lynch gamma its fine because some combo of that trio is my solve, but i want to lynch in aj/empking first and wont be on the gamma hammer.

[Joshz]

good. gonna pause for a sec. this is not active lurking empking. the goal of questions to generate discussion. discussion is good! now see where its progressing? i

Guess what? It isn't your posts on this page that I called out for being active lurking. I'm not a time travellor.

Your actions in this post are literally the opposite of an earlier post which was of the sort "Deadlines coming! Everbody don't think of anyone other than AJ and Empking." The fact that it is so literally the opposite is coincidental, but funny. THat's without getting into the issue of your two 'Nacho is going to be nightkilled' posts and other examples.

Nacho: I don't think Two overegging his role in Having's lynch is a scumtell. Its utterly null. Other people overestimating his role in the Having lynch is going to let scum coast. That's the problem.

My view on wo is that his push looks like pre-planned mutual distancing. I mean initially Two's actions towards me have been quite similar. But past that initial his actions have been quite different. This is what his sincerely trying to get somebody lynched looks like. To my eyes - although obviously I have a bad perspective - they look utterly different despite the same initial similiarities ("I think Two is scum", "No you're scum!")

I'm willing to vote AJ, but I think he might be on four votes already so I'll wait for a votecount.

How is deadline coming here's who I think the lynch pool should be scummy? You've already exaggerated how much I referenced it.

[Joshz]

I'm very sure Empking is scum. However, since we are ignoring it for now at nachos request

Unvote and VOTE: aj

[Joshz]

So aj is town

Aj, please post last thoughts and if you think Empking is scum partner assuming TwoFace isn't (I intend to lynch gamma before Empking if you're flipping town)

[Joshz]

He was hammered and said he was??? If it's twilight trolling it's irrelevant, his thoughts aren't needed

[Joshz]

Hey aj just for full disclosure: in a micro I just played I put creeps to l-1 without l-1 in my post (vc was just above) and bbt accidentally hammered. All 3 of us were town.

That said TwoFace does look a lot worse to me now and i 100% agree it's completely sus. I'm lynching gamma before him but yea he is a lot less townie to me now.

And wdym? I am assuming he is town because of how he's acting. He is telling us the scum team and who to lynch. He is stating he's town albeit indirectly.

[Joshz]

Well,

I think everyone alive is on board with a gamma lynch tomorrow. If he flips scum that gives us a fair bit to play around with. My worry is that Empking is just gonna keep tunnelling me, and that could be dire if he's alive til late game.

[Joshz]

How sure are you Empking isn't scum? I really do not like that slot.

[Joshz]

That's fair but like he did his job if it was a scum play, he got TwoFace under suspicion after that hammer.

[Joshz]

for you and your partner maybe

[Joshz]

My biggest single thing about gamma is how bad his claim requests were, with creeps and mason partner.

[Joshz]

Show me where someone is letting TwoFace off for his lolhammer

[Joshz]

Luv, you'd rather lynch emp over gamma?

[Joshz]

I agree! However, we have a lot of dead people saying gamma is the better lynch. Did nacho say anything about emp in Mason pt?

[Joshz]

Unfortunate. I'm down with either. I'm pretty sure there's one and only one scum in the pair - TwoFace is likely saying emp so let's see what aristo and sonia say

[Joshz]

both are individually my biggest scumreads but i /doubt/ theyre both scum together.

if emp flips scum i think gamma or you are partner. if gamma flips scum i think emp or MAYBE (unlikely) twoface are partner. aristo is the oddball; im excluding him on nacho's stance + that there are two significantly better lyncehs rn.

emp is my bigger sr but gamma flip seems more useful and id really rather respect aj and hiraki's wishes and get the lynch off, i imagine theyd be quite annoyed in postgame if they tried getting us to lynch gamma all game, we didnt, and gamma won as scum. the flip side is emp might just go back to tunnelling me and twoface and being all around anti-town and annoying.

overall stance: neutral rn. i think the lynch is in gamma and king forsure though.

[Joshz]

I'm likely going to hang

Fixed your post for you

vote gamma

[Joshz]

thought about it

i want 2 lynch gamma before emp

please and thanks

[Joshz]

Nacho didn't give his thoughts Uzi already said that

Now can we fucking lynch gamma

[Joshz]

Both of you fit as gamma partners so why can't we just lynch gamma and deal with this tomorrow zzz

[Joshz]

sheep me on gamma you fools

[Joshz]

Bbt accidentally hammered a townie a couple weeks ago (he was town)

Ironically that townie was creeps

[Joshz]

Gamma is practically claiming scum wagon away fools

[Joshz]

No, but there is still a slight possibility that King is just VI.

The problem I have with a King lynch is that no one can tell me who is the definite focus for Day 5 regardless of flip. With Gamma it's like, okay, Day 5 should be at the most two hours but with a King lynch, Day 5 is just going to lead to whole bunch of back and forth with no end in sight and a likely compromise on a town slot. I rather not have the town lose that way.

actually if king flips scum, josh goes up my radar a bit.

plus if we lynch king and he flips scum, we have allowed us an extra mislynch I think.

I don't see how keeping king around helps town in anyway. he isn't being useful at all.

How is gamma being useful in any way?

[Joshz]

i think empking's play is awful + lynchbait regardless of alignment and

i think there are several dead townies advocating strongly for a gamma lynch and

i think a gamma flip provides more info than empking and

[Joshz]

nice shiny lynchbait

[Joshz]

Hammer king

W.E I have surgery in 6 hours IDC

[Joshz]

Yea just wisdom teeth haha all 4 are gone now

[Joshz]

Lynch king

[Joshz]

Bold counts...?

[Joshz]

Normals are so boring, role madness is where it's at

[Joshz]

lol

[Joshz]

You can use any role but afaik they'll discuss the balance first. Lots of role madness games have unique roles or unique adaptations of already made roles.

[Joshz]

Best advice I can give while designing role madness is to not let it be broken by mass claiming

[Joshz]

Can we get a flip please

[Joshz]

sonia is back on my radar. might make a wallpost if i have time. i am currently deciding between gamma and sonia.

[Joshz]

pretty sure i just chuckled

[Joshz]

"No to mention an earlier post he made where he said scum/vedith for reasons he'd explain post game" where did i say that? ive explained my scum read on vedith multiple times in this game. ive also pushed vedith the entire time including when he has and hasnt been pressured, and the only time i switched off was at the request of a mason to lynch who both of us scumread; i think you scumread aj more than i did. i "backed off" vedith because nobody else was agreeing with my scumread, i went right back to voting him after. i voted gamma to honor hiraki and aj, who were confident hes scum. i will still vote gamma, just need to decide between him and sonia.
fitz/gamma does not make no sense either lol

[Joshz]

not to mention yesterday i wasnt entirely confident you were town and wanted to lynch gamma before emp because youd fit as a gamma partner but not as an emp partner. i still do not like that unvote on "policy"

[Joshz]

But hey. I'm a reasonable man.

Somebody show me how fitz/creeps makes more sense than fitz/hiraki and I'll read it over.

It doesnt

Fitz/vedith does though

Oh yeah, run that one past me again.

I can't for reasons... Take that as you like but I can answer at a later date.
Le End

Here ya go buddy.

are you fucking joking LOLLLL

that was a sarcastic reply.... read his posts again

[Joshz]

I also really need you to explain this town read on hiraki at some point also.

I can't for reasons... Take that as you like but I can answer at a later date.

[Joshz]

not to mention yesterday i wasnt entirely confident you were town and wanted to lynch gamma before emp because youd fit as a gamma partner but not as an emp partner. i still do not like that unvote on "policy"

I was the most obvious townie next to the masons.

It was

Nacho
Uzi
Me

So yeah you can get the same fate emp had. Good bye scum

idc, you being probably town doesnt clear you as town. aj had pointed out he scumread me when he first joined until he read more as a defense for empking, and his other tunnel read was you. when aj flipped town, you looked a significant amount worse to me, and while you were the stronger tr of the living non-masons you still werent cleared town at all. gamma made sense as a partner, and i didnt like how much you were against his lynch and trying to focus on emp. i thought a gamma lynch was more revealing, because i didnt wanna let scum twoface and scum gamma run away with the game if that was the pairing.

[Joshz]

And I told you fuckers it was a god damn accident. Stupid scum emp

n idc about you hammering ive seen town do it more than scum regardless of intentional or unintentional. i did not like you unvoting fitz at the start of the game for policy and stating you knew he was going to be lynched anyways. player policy is not something im a big fan of.

[Joshz]

i didnt hard push against an emp lynch, i rathered a gamma lynch. i said the lynchpool was emp and gamma. i did explain it, read my posts, ive explained vedith sr about 3 times. from the second emp entered the game he tunnelled you and myself, that doesnt seem off to you?

"The fact that you went from hard pushing vedith when it didn't seem likely he's going to be lynched to hard against it when it was 50/50 he could be lynched and then just gave up and hammered reeks of early distancing, later team preservation, and hammer in hopes of town cred. "
this is like word for word what id expect if someone read the wiki and tried to play off of it.

[Joshz]

I haven't actually read the game yet, but as it stands:

Town:
Aristophanes - Nacho's read
Nachomamma8 - Mason
Lil Uzi Vert - Mason

Slight town:
Gamma Emerald - Having's votes
xSoniaNevermindx - Nacho's read

Slight Scum:
TwoFace - Hasving's votes seem like the basic - dump a vote on a partner for distancing because you don't want to bus play

Scum:
Aj The Epic - Nacho's read
Joshz - Like big time, like hugely, like blindingly obvious. He scream scum. Maybe, that'll change once I read his posts but so far it screams 'invested in the game; trying to play to win; not actually engaged in scumhunting'

Vote:Joshz

if youve finished reading lets see your thoughts on the game besides me being a manipulative artful scum active-lurker. i must have a partner, no? whats your game plan if i were to be lynched and if i were to flip town?

i did not say youve given no reads besides me. your reads post was pre-reading the thread. you have not given comphrehensive reads besides what seems to be fosing twoface and a couple town reads (trusting one mason on aristo being town and putting him as town when the other disagrees is also bad!). youve finished reading youve said, so whats your updated reads list?

I'm not so much trusting a Mason's read as I am trusting Nacho's read who happens to be a Mason.

I have not posted so much that this ought to necessary, but:

Town:
Nacho, Ouv - Mason

Arist - Naco

Gamma - Got Having lynched
Sonia - Having was essentially apathetic between Dreep and Hiraki (which was stooped cause Hiraki's a great player)

Scum:
AJ, could be. Nothing screams that he can't be.

Two: His interaction with Having looks like distancing. His retaliatory and dishonest reaction to this claim also looks bad.
Josh: Active lurking in what looks like a very deliberate way. (Is doing exactly what I'd do if I was scum)

[Joshz]

aristo could be scum off these, but like, i really doubt scum would put their partner that strong town randomly for very little reason. there are points for both sonia and gamma as scum, im curios what others think.

twoface: assuming the last scum was not me, who do you think it is?

[Joshz]

twoface. answer the question. if i am town who do you think the last scum is?

[Joshz]

deadlines coming up folks, empking try and have your read through done today please!

We've got four days. That's plenty of time. (And this post was active lurking. And Active lurking in the artful way you're doing is big scumtell*)

I've read through the game;I read it out of order so might have missed a page here or there, but that makes no difference.

* The bit in brackes above isn't really direced to Josh. I'm well aware that I shan't convince him.

(Sonia's post was also active lurking, but it seems more like prod-dodging rather than the artful way Josh is doing. More importantly Having clearly was not acting like the Creep wagon was a wagon on his buddy.)

this series of posts is what makes me the most suspicious of sonia; he specifically tunnels me for active lurking and doesnt even acknowledge sonia who hasnt read the thread through or contributed much of anything at any stage.

[Joshz]

yh

[Joshz]

why am i a good lynch aristophanes? im just gonna go with hiraki here and slap twoface as dumb town, so lets see a case from you.

[Joshz]

i caught empking just as much as you did

[Joshz]

ok now im insulting you

"You even didn't hammer properly and probably didn't realize the mod had a special rule. "

shut the fuck up LOL

explain what benefit as scum there is to voting like that? or why its even worth mentioning? jesus dude you are annoying to play with. i need rope like hiraki did i see.

[Joshz]

theres pro personal satisfaction motivation, youre annoying me and i agree with what hiraki was saying. that is the motivation for posting that.

but back to relevant topic, twoface is on my ignore list for now because hes town and theres no point acknowledging him and annoying myself considering hes ignored me when ive addressed him. his play now doesnt even make sense as scum; if anything the opposite would be an option via making me look as townie as possible to line up a nightkill and not have to explain why he wasnt nk'd.


aristophanes, why is josh!scum? gamma, who do you think scum is if its not twoface? sonia, any thoughts?

[Joshz]

You even didn't hammer properly and probably didn't realize the mod had a special rule.

This is 100% a great starting point for the scumread.

For other reasons, I will have to do that VCA/ISO thing I promised for within the week.

Why do people always demand cases so quickly!?

ok. explain to me why thats a great starting point for a scumread? explain in what possible way it could benefit scum!me to make it look like i hammered empking while not actually voting him? nobody will notice theres no hammer or my vote in the vcs and we will merrily hit dl and nl? i am not seeing the motivation here at all, youre gonna have to walk me there.

[Joshz]

i think something isnt clicking for you

someone else hammers... wait for it...

still results in a lynch

. why would it be better to not only let my partner get lynched but to also unintentionally not partake in it? oh my god i accidentally didnt hammer scum but i meant to, this clears me as town!?!

[Joshz]

i had to sub out due to surgery and not being able to get stress levels above a certain point etc etc i didnt want to risk anything, glad my sub fixed what imo was a really awful tunnel from someone who had otherwise decent gameplay. idk, i really dont see me and emp as svs, i called him out for ignoring sonia for active lurking just as much as i did and im pretty sure hapahauli got some of their argument from what i brought up which is nice. sonia was obvious scum to me but unfortunately i just didnt get the time to fix it.

empoof seemed like too obvious a lynch to me like aja. i guess you could say i overestimated his gameplay? the sonia connection was really obvious, and my doubt was that that was intentional, but ah well. in hindsight we just let sonia coast without even reading the thread or doing much of anything at any point, did the creeps slot justice :^) but she managed to stay under the radar for a while which is good for her.

this was my last game on ms but what ill take for future games is i should be more confident in my reads. i was right on which d1 wagon i wanted, i was right on vedith, and i figured out creeps in the end - i just didnt convey it well and i need to work on that too. i shouldnt have lynched hiraki or aj, thats my b.

overall i had fun this game. thanks for being a good playerlist, peace.