'The Lost Boys' Mafia (Cry Little Sister, it's OVER!)

[cicero]

One of my big questions is why you claimed your role when you did in the manner you did. That seems like an actions question to me.

[Mr. Flay]

Sixth Vote Count of Day Four:

PookyTheMagicalBear - 3 (Setael, Dasquian, Mariyta)
Yosarian2 - 3 (Crub, Ectomancer, Mastermind of Sin)

Mariyta - 1 (Battle Mage)
Ectomancer - 1 (cicero)

Not Voting - 8 (PookyTheMagicalBear, AniX, -TinVision-, Sudo_Nym, HackerHuck, Arafax, Yosarian2, Sir.Laggalot)

It is now Day Four; with sixteen left, nine votes will be needed to lynch.

[Ectomancer]

One of my big questions is why you claimed your role when you did in the manner you did. That seems like an actions question to me.

It's a role question, even if peripherally from some perspectives. Explaining timing and style questions about the role certainly reveals something about the role itself. I didn't, and still don't want to do that.

[cicero]

K. Well I've made my points. Just like I did with MoS and Yos before you and I have you on record on the things I want you on record on. Will revisit them as necessary. Let the chips fall where they may.

I'm wondering who we're trying to convince since half the town appears to be asleep. Hopefully things will perk up after all the college kids are done their exams.

[Sir.Laggalot]

I am not asleep, I check the forum each day.

As for my suspicions right now they lay with you ciero, I don't like Ecto's claim either but he doesn't seem very scummy yet, if neither of you are hung tonight then I expect Ecto to investigate you.

[cicero]

I'm happy to face any and every investigation at any and every time. Would look forward to it. Especially since I don't want to be in the cult. So yeah, I'm down with any periodic watching/tracking/investigating that anyone wants to do ever.

Thanks for posting Laggs. Is your mason buddy dead do ya think?

[Yosarian2]

Yes, VERY reluctant to say my role name. Boy, good thing that can be used for a better fake claim.

Ok. If you don't want to claim your role name now, I'm not necessarally suggesting you should. I just don't understand why, if knowing your role name would somehow be helpful for the bad guys for whatever reason, which I also don't understand at this point, but if so, why you are making such a big deal about how you "Breadcrumbed it" and how anyone who's not "lazy" should be able to figure it out.

Yosarian, my belief is that if you dangle bait in front of a predator long enough, eventually he can't help but go after it. I have obfuscuted details that were not important to the town, but have been very specific and clear in details that I felt were indeed important for them to have.
While my play has been frustrating to some, as has been expressed, and I have attempted to tone it down our of respect for you all, I've built quite an elaborate house of cards and TOWN realizes that it would only take a concerted tug to determine whether it really is a house of cards, or whether it would stand.

You realize that dosn't make any sense at all, right?

If a person keeps saying thing and acting in a way that makes no apparent sense, if they keep playing games, refusing to answer simple questions for no apparent reason, and just generally being wierd, then anyone who is TOWN will start to wonder what, exactally, that person is trying to hide. I gave you some rope, because I wanted to see where you were going, but you're not making any bloody SENSE; and I think anyone who's played with me knows that nothing drives me crazy faster then someone who's not making sense.

But you can't leave the bait alone. You've got to expose the details

today

.

I have to expose what "details" today? I thought, a few posts ago, you were claiming that you've "already explained it all", and that i was just to lazy to read your posts or I would understand? Now, you're claiming that I'm "trying to expose the details"? What the hell?

Time is running out as we narrow down the list of possible CR's isn't it?

...what retorical nonsense, considering we only have, what, 3 people in this entire town who are anything like cleared.

Scary being on the short list isn't it?

Eh? I'm one of the few people who haven't claimed, along with you, but I could of course change that in a second if I wanted to. I'm not sure how that puts either one of us on any kind of "short list", though; the only people I really trust at this point are Maryta (and she could turn on us if things start to go bad) and the people she investigated. We don't know enough to really rule anyone out on flavor alone.

I mean, if we didn't have things narrowed down you could afford to leave me be, but we do and so you can't. You haven't had time to build an adequate cult following yet. Couple that with the knowledge that I targeted you last night and you

really

can't afford to leave it alone, particularly if I'm being Doc protected and can't be killed tonight. What will stop me from targeting you again?

Dude, what does any of that have to do with the very simple, direct questions I asked you earlier? I just wanted you to explain what the hell you think you're doing, and you keep refusing to explain anything in any kind of way that makes sense.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yosarian, trusting the people Mariyta has investigated implies that you don't think there's any way the cult recruiter could be found innocent by Mariyta. Is there a reason you believe this? Given the evidence found in the movie, I'd assume that if Max is the cult recruit (likely), he would come up innocent to Mariyta, especially if Ectomancer is telling the truth about his role as well. So why do you trust the people Mariyta has investigated?

[Yosarian2]

I think a

Vote: Yosarian2

is in order. Ecto's post 2640 makes a lot of sense to me about Yosarian2's behavior. I believe it's possible that Yos was genuinely mistaken about the fact that Ecto had not actually been able to target him last night. However, the way he acted on that mistaken believe is consistent with Ecto's theory in that post. He saw a chance to jump in and push Ecto to perhaps reveal everything, and he took the bait finally.

...

Ecto hasn't made "a lot of sense" about ANYTHING. What the hell are you people on?

I don't really GIVE a shit about his role-name at this point. We've mislynched TWICE now by relying on flavor info.

Are people really bandwagoning me just because I haven't claimed my flavor name? Because that's the only excuse Crub gave, and Ecto hasn't made any bloody sense at all. If everyone really wants me to claim my flavor name, I will, and it's a hell of a lot better then, well, any of the other rolenames people seem to be blindly and stupidly trusting, for whever difference that makes.

And what the hell do you mean "Yosarian was genuanly mistaken about Ecto not being able to target him last night"? Ecto said he couldn't target anyone last night, and the only person he was HINTING he MIGHT have targeted was Battle Mage. And again, what the hell do you mean "was pushing Ecto to reveal everything"? I just wanted him to EXPLAIN why he was leading the town on a wild goose chase, why he was refusing to answer any questions that Cicero was asking him, and what the hell he thought he was doing. I gave him some rope, gave him some time to play out whever gambit he might have thought he was doing, but he just kept distracting the town and making less and less sense, and when I finally asked him to explain what he was doing, he insisted he already had, when he clearly had not, and then he voted me for daring to ask him what he was doing. You even agreed with me that he should explain himself, and now you've voting me for repeating my questions that he ignored? What the hell?

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian, trusting the people Mariyta has investigated implies that you don't think there's any way the cult recruiter could be found innocent by Mariyta. Is there a reason you believe this? Given the evidence found in the movie, I'd assume that if Max is the cult recruit (likely), he would come up innocent to Mariyta, especially if Ectomancer is telling the truth about his role as well. So why do you trust the people Mariyta has investigated?

Well, I think she is telling the truth, therefore I'm considering her investigations to be the only hard evidence we have so far. Of course there is always a chance that there's some kind of investigation-proof Godfather-cult leader-ish thing, but I'm not going to just assume that there must be one just based on some more flavor-based speculation either; that kind of thing hasn't gotten us very far this game, after all.

[Arafax]

Sorry for the semi-lurking...I'm swamped at home...Still trying to keep up and participate.

I see the Pooky wagon, but I don't see the YoS wagon....I read Ecto's post that MoS refrenced, but I don't agree with it...I too thought that Ecto's "softness" with the claim was telling.

Yosarian, trusting the people Mariyta has investigated implies that you don't think there's any way the cult recruiter could be found innocent by Mariyta

I personally think that we can trust Mari's investigations....MoS, why do you think otherwise?

[Ectomancer]

I see the Pooky wagon, but I don't see the YoS wagon....I read Ecto's post that MoS refrenced, but I don't agree with it...I too thought that Ecto's "softness" with the claim was telling.

Do you mean to tell me that there is nobody in this game that knows my flavor name by now? Seriously? It's like playing in a Grease theme game, singing "There are worse things I could do" and have nobody get that you are Rizzo.

What exactly do you "see" in the Pooky wagon there Arafax?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yosarian, trusting the people Mariyta has investigated implies that you don't think there's any way the cult recruiter could be found innocent by Mariyta. Is there a reason you believe this? Given the evidence found in the movie, I'd assume that if Max is the cult recruit (likely), he would come up innocent to Mariyta, especially if Ectomancer is telling the truth about his role as well. So why do you trust the people Mariyta has investigated?

Well, I think she is telling the truth, therefore I'm considering her investigations to be the only hard evidence we have so far. Of course there is always a chance that there's some kind of investigation-proof Godfather-cult leader-ish thing, but I'm not going to just assume that there must be one just based on some more flavor-based speculation either; that kind of thing hasn't gotten us very far this game, after all.

Actually, I think what we know so far about this setup HAS made some sort of sense flavor-wise, so I see no reason not to speculate based on the flavor. If you can name something we know about this setup that doesn't make sense from the movie's flavor, then maybe I can see where you're coming from.

Sorry for the semi-lurking...I'm swamped at home...Still trying to keep up and participate.

I see the Pooky wagon, but I don't see the YoS wagon....I read Ecto's post that MoS refrenced, but I don't agree with it...I too thought that Ecto's "softness" with the claim was telling.

Softness? What do you mean by that? Telling in what way?

Yosarian, trusting the people Mariyta has investigated implies that you don't think there's any way the cult recruiter could be found innocent by Mariyta

I personally think that we can trust Mari's investigations....MoS, why do you think otherwise?

Why don't you try reading the rest of my post where I explain why I think otherwise, instead of just quoting part of it.

[Ectomancer]

I personally think that we can trust Mari's investigations....MoS, why do you think otherwise?

Why do you think a Cult Recruiter would come up guilty for Mariyta?

[Yosarian2]

Actually, I think what we know so far about this setup HAS made some sort of sense flavor-wise, so I see no reason not to speculate based on the flavor. If you can name something we know about this setup that doesn't make sense from the movie's flavor, then maybe I can see where you're coming from.

(shrug) Well, we lynched day 1 partly because Fonz's role names seemed obveously scum, flavorwise, and we were wrong. Part of the reason we mislynched yesterday was because the mayor didn't seem to make any sense flavor wise, and we were all wrong about that too.

Let me put it this way; this game might make sense flavor-wise, but it's likely to do so in ways we are not likely to predict. The mod has done very good so far in setting up the flavor in such a way that we have been unable to use it to predict, well, anything about this game, and I don't expect that to change.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, if the two of you are done sidetracking the town on idle speculation about what powers hypothetical scum roles might or might not have, care actually answering any of my points, MOS or Ecto?

Why exactally are you voting for me, MOS? What "made sense" in Ecto's post, exactally, and why does that make me scum?

How the hell does any of what you've said, Ecto? Why are you attacking me for trying to get you to explain what you were trying to do, while at the same time insisting you've already explained what you were trying to do? Why are you trying to insist that finding out your role name would somehow help the cult, while at the same time apparently trying to point to clues that you seem to think any idiot should be able to use to figure out your role name? Do you understand how totally scitzo all of that looks?

[Dasquian]

@Dasquian - You are in no position to determine whether my obstructiveness is pointless or not. Your sympathies may still reside with Cicero though.

God, I don't know anymore. All I know is that your cryptic messages are getting increasingly annoying and condescending, and it's winding me up a treat. At no point have I ruled out the possibility that all of this is part of some pro-town masterplan, but like cicero says, you're demanding too much trust from a game built on a lack of it. If your masterplan assumed a lack of pesky inquistive townies, may I humbly suggest it was fatally flawed from the offset.

Riddle me this: if you are so surprised that no one has figured out your role-name, why hold it back? Honestly, what is the point? Do we get a prize if we guess right?

My current take is that you're town, and loving the attention and opportunity for posturing as a smirking genius. Is the breadcrumbing thing just a ploy to get us to reread your posts over and over?

[Mariyta]

If you forgot, I investigated Ecto last night. So if you trust my results that well, you should trust he's cleared.

Ecto, I think I know your role, and if I can figure it out, most others should be able to as well.

[Mariyta]

Correction: Role-name, not role.

[Arafax]

What exactly do you "see" in the Pooky wagon there Arafax?

The lurking until pressure that was followed by a lot of posting; I find that scummy....And the potential "slip" that I mentioned earlier.

Why do you think a Cult Recruiter would come up guilty for Mariyta?

Well, if we have no scum group (I don't think we have scum & cult) then what good would a cop be if they couldn't get a guilty on a cult leader?

Softness? What do you mean by that? Telling in what way?

I just found Ecto's reactions to cicero's questioning scummy.

[Ectomancer]

Riddle me this: if you are so surprised that no one has figured out your role-name, why hold it back? Honestly, what is the point? Do we get a prize if we guess right?

Because it tells me how invested the town is in the theme of this game. What was obvious to me clearly isn't so obvious to others. I'm waiting to see if it was obvious to anyone at all and when, or if it is important enough to them to bother figuring out. It lets me know whether I've been discussing specularity and diffusion when all the majority of the town sees is light hitting a table.
Seriously people, I Googled my last flavor drop and my character came up on the first page. If you Google only the line I dropped the first 4-5 times, it comes up first return on the 2nd page. The Lost Boys blah blah blah. I seriously think that telling me I was being overly cryptic about the rolename is overblown.


I don't think they forgot Mariyta. As I said, Cicero's constant badgering was too much of an opportunity for gaining information about me to pass up.

Yos - You've been playing this game far too long to pretend not to know the difference between a role name and a players role in the game. I couldn't care if anyone knows my role name, if you look I've put it out there for days now. At this point, I'm trying to find out if anyone got it or not. If they didn't clearly my hints weren't so plain and I'll let ya know.
Knowing exactly what my

role

is though is a far different matter and that's what I have not divulged. Telling you what ability I have, does not tell you exactly what my role is, therefore also not telling you its strengths and limitations.
THAT is what I feel like you have been after, and the name itself was something you clung to as an excuse.

[Ectomancer]

If your masterplan assumed a lack of pesky inquistive townies, may I humbly suggest it was fatally flawed from the offset.

If you read what I said, you would know that I was

depending

upon a pesky inquisitive townie to lead a query into my activities. I doubted very much that the CR would lead one himself, despite needing to know. Cicero provided an opportunity for someone to take a more subtle role in the push for my information, which is where Pooky and Yos fell into the picture. I liked Pooky's responses. I did not like Yos's. Yos got my vote.
I would like to have seen who else might have chimed in, but Cicero had all he could take at that point, so I reeled in the nets and brought home the catch that I had.

[cicero]

Mariyta, even you shouldnt trust your own results. Suffering. Cult Recruiter godfather. We've been over this.

It isnt just about Ecto's flavor for me. It is about whether the entirety of Ectomancer's behavior makes more sense as town or scum. They looked quite scummy to me. I didnt only ask him for his flavor as you well know. I asked questions leading to a case which I then released about why we had to consider Ecto as gambitting us. His behavior and evasiveness is consistent with that. Ultimately, I expect he has a great name claim. That doesn't make me suspect him less in the least. It makes me suspect him

more

.

It was his whole air of mystery and evasiveness that needed addressing. Now it has been. I used the flavor to test my hypothesis.

Im far more interested in how evasive and inconsistent he is with respect to his actual role and the reasons for when and how he claimed.

If Ecto is on the town side his plan was highly flawed. He exposed all the information a CR would need and at the same time acting suspiciously. Equally likely though is that this is all a gambit as I explained some time ago.

Yosarian is exactly right when he points out how schizo ecto's behavior has been - dangling flavor but saying we cant know it.

And the evidence he's gathering is null because it is based on the false premise that only scum have an incentive to investigate someone behaving the way Ecto is behaving. He acts very much like he is a simple recruiter cop. Her refers to THE recruiter. He asks for protection from a doc if it exists. But then he plays a coy little game. That game looks like a scum who is hedging his bets in case a real recruiter cop emerges.

Now I'm not saying this is necessarily so. I'm just saying it's a possibility not to be ignored. And now it no longer can be.

[cicero]

Oh yeah - and lest we forgot. The way he claimed shows precious little actual fear of the recruiter. Despite wanting to tie up the doc.

[Ectomancer]

What exactly do you "see" in the Pooky wagon there Arafax?

The lurking until pressure that was followed by a lot of posting; I find that scummy....And the potential "slip" that I mentioned earlier.

Why do you think a Cult Recruiter would come up guilty for Mariyta?

Well, if we have no scum group (I don't think we have scum & cult) then what good would a cop be if they couldn't get a guilty on a cult leader?

Softness? What do you mean by that? Telling in what way?

I just found Ecto's reactions to cicero's questioning scummy.

What do you suppose Flay would have done to prevent a Mariyta investigation from finding the CR by pure luck on night 1 and lynching him day 2?

Now, if you believe what you say, that Mariyta's investigation targets are cleared of being the recruiter, what exactly is my manner of claiming suppose to be telling? Because according to you, I can't be any kind of scum at all today.

Are you sure you stand by that assessment of Mariyta's investigation targets? That question goes to you as well Yosarian, as you have stated that you wont entertain the possiblity of a Godfather type Cult Recruiter without some evidence supporting it (though how you would get that evidence without a CR corpse, I couldn't say). By both of your statements, I'm the most cleared person in the entire game as I was just investigated last night by Mariyta. Yet you are jumping on the bandwagon against me?
Do you see just how contradictory your stated positions are? Why would that be? Well, an ulterior motive would cause that contradiction between stated belief and actions, and as I've said, getting information out of me would be an ulterior motive and explain that contradiction.

Do you understand why I suspect you of being the CR now Yos?