Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

Nahdia · Post Post #9600 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:19 pm

In post 9599, JaeReed wrote:Weak only dies if visiting a killing role though?

No.

MathBlade · Post Post #9601 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:19 pm

In post 9596, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 9585, BigYoshiFan wrote:I'm thinking it's true that not all scum members can kill, and Narna was killed to bolster the position of who they checked.
Also, Math and Gio team? Something that sprung up in my mind. Probably something I am missing that makes this obviously not true.
I'm not sure if I mentioned it anywhere earlier (other than in my head), but my main issue with MathBlade is that they seem to really care about surviving personally (something I picked up while following the game), but also don't seem to have (or at least, haven't claimed to have) a role that warrants that. This is what prompted me to outright ask MathBlade earlier if they had an alternative win condition. It also implies a possibility that the Bulletproof is a fakeclaim; generally speaking, if you're a Bulletproof Townie, you actively want that to remain hidden as long as possible, but MathBlade has been claiming it at basically every opportunity. Obviously, a fake Bulletproof claim reduces the chance that you die via discouraging players from shooting you.

People who have played with MathBlade before: are they generally selfish as Town? Or is selfishness an indication that they might have a different alignment? (I can reasonably see all of groupscum (although that's a bit of a stretch), third-party, cult (MathBlade is a blatantly obvious cult target; the main argument against is that we've seen no proof of a cult, but we have seen many hints…), and just plain selfish town.)

PEDIT: Oh, it looks like people have been discussing this already while I've been writing the post, but I'll post it anyway.

I was already outed as BP. I am being loud and solvy to try to draw the NK. Came up with the theory that confirms a shit ton of town please. The only way I am anything but Town is if Gio isn't Town.

Nahdia · Post Post #9602 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:19 pm

Gio claims he dies if he visited non-town. Never specified anything about any killing roles.

callforjudgement · Post Post #9603 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:20 pm

In post 9591, MathBlade wrote:Because I didn't say how many shots I was BP. If I was shot by Maxous then shot again it would result in a no kill.

We've only had one missing kill. Your

second

shot of BP can't possibly explain that (because there'd need to be a missing kill to explain your

first

shot).

Also, why are you assuming Maxous had a kill?

@

Gio

: Please ask the moderator how your Weak modifier would interact with a former Town player whose win condition had been altered via an external force.

JaeReed · Post Post #9604 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:20 pm

In post 9596, callforjudgement wrote:People who have played with MathBlade before: are they generally selfish as Town?

I tried to keep Math alive even though we thought their partner was scum in lovers mafia and they wouldn't stand for it and called me scum for wanting it because I thought our best chance was to find the mafia partners with Math's abilities. So no, not selfish. They wanted to die when they thought it'd kill scum.

MathBlade · Post Post #9605 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:21 pm

VOTE: Peregrine V

Back here.

That was pre claim and I was explaining the actions and one thing that resets vote counts is a day vig. Being immune to Day and night kills implies there is a day kill ability.

callforjudgement · Post Post #9606 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:23 pm

In post 9600, Nahdia wrote:
In post 9599, JaeReed wrote:Weak only dies if visiting a killing role though?
No.

There are two commonly seen variants. The Normal variant dies if they target someone with a non-Town win condition. A commonly seen alternative dies if they target someone who would investigate guilty to a Cop. (And not all Cops can detect cults; in fact, I suspect that most can't. The issue doesn't come up in a Normal for obvious reasons.) As such, we probably need clarification from Gio on exactly how it works.

MathBlade · Post Post #9607 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:25 pm

Keep bending bud. I am town. I am annoyed and frustrated I had to drag y'all to Maxous you won't listen to me on Creeps or PV and now that it is narrowed down to PV. But a part of me finds it utterly hilarious you are trying to lynch confirmed town.

JaeReed · Post Post #9608 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:25 pm

Except I thought Math actually claimed full bp when we were arguing here yesterday, so now arguing that they haven't claimed their shots is bullshit.

I still want a Math lynch for A) saying I was trying to policy lynch them due to Shadowrun when I clearly stated my case, and B) refusing to lynch obvscum SirCakez therefore making them a liability and C) deciding i had to be scum because I didn't trust them and thought Neapolitan also returned alignment of whoever was checked

MathBlade · Post Post #9609 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:25 pm

To PV or Almost50*

MathBlade · Post Post #9610 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:27 pm

In post 9608, JaeReed wrote:Except I thought Math actually claimed full bp when we were arguing here yesterday, so now arguing that they haven't claimed their shots is bullshit.

I still want a Math lynch for A) saying I was trying to policy lynch them due to Shadowrun when I clearly stated my case, and B) refusing to lynch obvscum SirCakez therefore making them a liability and C) deciding i had to be scum because I didn't trust them and thought Neapolitan also returned alignment of whoever was checked

....You were then.
SirCakez is obvTown.
And yes when you don't provide reasons and don't read the wiki yes I think you are trying to bend things.

Just like now. I am not arguing I didn't. I am arguing I didn't claim it at that time.

JaeReed · Post Post #9611 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:41 pm

No, I was not. I 100% was not and I had a case and Almost even boiled it down for you. Cakez is obvscum. And I did provide my reasons and it was very clear if you even TRIED TO READ MY DAMN POSTS THAT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.

But you dont' read my posts. You still won't now that I'm confirmed town to you.

callforjudgement · Post Post #9612 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:42 pm

In post 9552, MathBlade wrote:Not Voting: SirCakez, Giovanni il Pellegrino, MathBlade, PeregrineV, Nahdia, callforjudgement, Ankamius, BigYoshiFan, Almost50, JaeReed

So this leaves SirCakez, myself, Peregrine V, Ank, and Almost50 as potential scum.

Taking out obv town SirCakez and myself this leaves Peregrine V Ank and Almost50 as group scum candidates.

(Yes yes I know before you start yelling I know I am ignoring the possibility of a cult on N5 but we need group scum death. )

Admitting you aren't confirmed as town by night actions.

MathBlade wrote:Keep bending bud. I am town. I am annoyed and frustrated I had to drag y'all to Maxous you won't listen to me on Creeps or PV and now that it is narrowed down to PV. But a part of me finds it utterly hilarious you are trying to lynch confirmed town.

Acting like you are confirmed as town by night actions (sufficiently so that you made me go and reread to discover where). Also, why doesn't the second post mention A50?

(Please don't draw the wrong conclusions from my questions: I am trying to sort you at the moment. That doesn't mean that I think you're scum, or on any particular scumteam. It

does

mean, though, that I have little reason to consider you town.)

MathBlade · Post Post #9613 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:44 pm

In post 9611, JaeReed wrote:No, I was not. I 100% was not and I had a case and Almost even boiled it down for you. Cakez is obvscum. And I did provide my reasons and it was very clear if you even TRIED TO READ MY DAMN POSTS THAT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.

But you dont' read my posts. You still won't now that I'm confirmed town to you.

I do read your posts. Your posts are not an argument of how he is scum. SirCakez has given you as a very likely conf town and lots of different inventions out. I don't see scum doing that asthe pool narrows. As long as SirCakez is giving inventions to conftown like me he is acting in town's best interests in the case he isn't but I strongly think he is.

We are lynching PV.

callforjudgement · Post Post #9614 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:45 pm

In post 9553, SirCakez wrote:Narna/Creeps FFS
Not Chara town flip is unsurprising though
Since Narna was town that basically confirms an investigation result manipulator I believe?

I think scum is in (A50, PV, Callforjudgement, Ank) at this point, with a small chance of Yoshi scum if there was a nokill gambit to "clear" him.

Could you explain your townread on MathBlade? Dayplay?

Almost50 · Post Post #9615 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:45 pm

I'm totally lost and have many wild theories going in my head. For instance, killing Narna only serves to confirm the likes of Nahdia, cfj (both returned "not a killer") and lighten up on Gio (weak who visited Narna). Without a Narna flip these 3 would still be pushed by someone one way or another. So, if ALL 3 ARE Town the scum really f'd up on his one.

Another (totally unrelated) theory is Narna would have got a "can kill" on Gio, which makes Gio scum AND faking all the way to the moon. (My personal read on Gio is TOWN though,so don't get confused. I'm just running out theories).

WHY else would Narna be killed TONIGHT? It was announced whom he would be checking, and keeping him alive EVEN if he would have returned an innocent on Gio wouldn't have cleared anyone because there were some of us (myself included) still not 100% Narna was Town anyway.

Does anybody else have any idea why scum would choose to off Narna in particular and on this specific time?

But, working with what we have at face value seems to return a "nobody's scum" to me. Math is confirmed by Gio, Gio is confirmed by own claim, Yoshi is confirmed by play if nothing else, and so is PV. cfj & Nahdia are confirmed by Narna, SC by his own role, Ank by the kill, and finally JR by Math's check. (And, I'm confirmed by role PM. Let's not forget I'm listing MY views and MY reads here).

I guess this could be the way to go:

Almost50

Presumably, SC has now run our of items to give out. If so, please have him hammer for the safest choice. His alignment does NOT change by hammering me, only his role does, and his original role is now effectively rendered a mere VT anyway after having handed out all his inventions.

MathBlade · Post Post #9616 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:45 pm

In post 9612, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 9552, MathBlade wrote:Not Voting: SirCakez, Giovanni il Pellegrino, MathBlade, PeregrineV, Nahdia, callforjudgement, Ankamius, BigYoshiFan, Almost50, JaeReed

So this leaves SirCakez, myself, Peregrine V, Ank, and Almost50 as potential scum.

Taking out obv town SirCakez and myself this leaves Peregrine V Ank and Almost50 as group scum candidates.

(Yes yes I know before you start yelling I know I am ignoring the possibility of a cult on N5 but we need group scum death. )
Admitting you aren't confirmed as town by night actions.
MathBlade wrote:Keep bending bud. I am town. I am annoyed and frustrated I had to drag y'all to Maxous you won't listen to me on Creeps or PV and now that it is narrowed down to PV. But a part of me finds it utterly hilarious you are trying to lynch confirmed town.
Acting like you are confirmed as town by night actions (sufficiently so that you made me go and reread to discover where). Also, why doesn't the second post mention A50?

(Please don't draw the wrong conclusions from my questions: I am trying to sort you at the moment. That doesn't mean that I think you're scum, or on any particular scumteam. It
does
mean, though, that I have little reason to consider you town.)

I added A50 later but I don't see annoying dog converter as scum. It was based on hood posting at that time.
That first post was preGio.

Gio confirms me as Town.

ISO · Post Post #9617 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:47 pm

I thought Weak died if visiting nontown?

MathBlade · Post Post #9618 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:48 pm

In post 9617, SirCakez wrote:I thought Weak died if visiting nontown?

This. Will go find the post.

MathBlade · Post Post #9619 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:50 pm

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8563651

Here Giovanni dies if he targets anyone not Town aligned.

Therefore I am confirmed town aligned unless you are calling Gio a liar.

ISO · Post Post #9620 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:51 pm

In post 9615, Almost50 wrote: Presumably, SC has now run our of items to give out. If so, please have him hammer for the safest choice. His alignment does NOT change by hammering me, only his role does, and his original role is now effectively rendered a mere VT anyway after having handed out all his inventions.

I have items left

Almost50 · Post Post #9621 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:55 pm

Actually, you could make PV hammer as an alternative. He didn't claim his role (or did I miss that?) so maybe it'd be safer that way?/ A third alternative is JR (we already know he is a VT, so transforming into the Annoying Dog while keeping his alignment isn't bad. In fact i should protect him from the NK).

MathBlade · Post Post #9622 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:55 pm

@Almost50 remind me where Narna said they would check Gio?

PV should be the lynch today.

Almost50 · Post Post #9623 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:56 pm

@SC:

I was thinking about it and writing up while you responded. Only STUPID ME went and posted it in the WRONG GAME!

MathBlade · Post Post #9624 (ISO) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:56 pm

In post 9621, Almost50 wrote:Actually, you could make PV hammer as an alternative. He didn't claim his role (or did I miss that?) so maybe it'd be safer that way?/ A third alternative is JR (we already know he is a VT, so transforming into the Annoying Dog while keeping his alignment isn't bad. In fact i should protect him from the NK).

How do you protect from the NK?