Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[JaeReed]

So instead I will wait for your case of why you aren't policying me.

I've already mentioned heaps of reasons. So no. I'm not dragging this out further with you.

[Nahdia]

Just preempting what I know is gonna happen:

A50 & Ank; you need to explain why PV is town without just saying "I can read PV, its meta".

OK. "I can read PV

. I

t

'

s meta

!

" (I even bolded and coloured the parts that make my phrase totally nonidentical to the one you requested me not to use.

Now here's a question for you: Why is PV scum for you? YOU need to explain that. Cuz I'm not seeing a scum motive behind anything he has said or done.

I...
I don't know, man. Maybe it's just that he's an easy target. Maybe I'm just taking out my frustration on the lurker because I'm fucking lost at this point. Maybe it's just that the reasons for PeregrineV being town are the ones I understand the

least

. Let me explain, and point out if I make any errors bc quite frankly I'm starting to fail to keep all of this straight.

Here's the players that are off limits because of someone else's role:
Accountant (Cleared by Narna)
Narna (Cleared by Giovanni)
Creeps20 (Cleared by Narna)
Myself (Cleared by Narna)

Here's the players that are apparently off limits because of their own role:
Giovanni (A weak role, presumably giving us conftown)
JaeReed (A VT, presumably going to be cleared tonight)
BigYoshiFan (A uni-doc, the only good explanation for why there was no kill last night)
SirCakez (An inventor, which i dunno, I guess we're just giving a pass because largely pro-town role)

Here's the players of those remaining that I townread enough that I really don't want them lynched today:
MathBlade
Not Chara

Which leaves us with:
PeregrineV
Almost50
Ankamius

and of those 3 people, the one I see the fewest reasons for them to be town that I really

get

is PV. Maybe that's just because they've had a relatively meager presence. The irony that the two people defending him are the other two people that I'm left with if I rule out PV isn't lost on me, but I'm not sure it has meaning?

[Almost50]

No, I don't give a crap if you check me or not because you're going to lie about the result regardless. Everything you're doing is pushing things to try and make it fit your scumreads/townreads. You are literally trying to bend the events of this game to your will and it's scummy af and I'm pissed I didn't catch you from it in Shadowrun but I'll be damned if I let you do it to me again. In Shadowrun I handwaved a lot of things as "Math is unreasonable" but the difference is there's some logic to your unreasonableness as town, and there's none here.

Great so you want to policy me because I tricked people in Shadowrun lovely. keep up the good scumhunting. (The last sentence is sarcastic)

EVERYBODY, PLEASE PAY CLOSE ATTENTION:

Jae says "You are literally trying to bend the events of this game to your will and it's scummy". They then go on to show this is SCUM!Math meta (according to Jae's own experience).

Math calls this a POLICY LYNCH, and never even addresses the main issue of BENDING EVENTS TO FIT THEIR SCUM/TOWN READS.

Keep it up, Math. You're doing great so far.

[MathBlade]

So instead I will wait for your case of why you aren't policying me.

I've already mentioned heaps of reasons. So no. I'm not dragging this out further with you.

No you didn't. This is policy.

[MathBlade]

No, I don't give a crap if you check me or not because you're going to lie about the result regardless. Everything you're doing is pushing things to try and make it fit your scumreads/townreads. You are literally trying to bend the events of this game to your will and it's scummy af and I'm pissed I didn't catch you from it in Shadowrun but I'll be damned if I let you do it to me again. In Shadowrun I handwaved a lot of things as "Math is unreasonable" but the difference is there's some logic to your unreasonableness as town, and there's none here.

Great so you want to policy me because I tricked people in Shadowrun lovely. keep up the good scumhunting. (The last sentence is sarcastic)

EVERYBODY, PLEASE PAY CLOSE ATTENTION:

Jae says "You are literally trying to bend the events of this game to your will and it's scummy". They then go on to show this is SCUM!Math meta (according to Jae's own experience).

Math calls this a POLICY LYNCH, and never even addresses the main issue of BENDING EVENTS TO FIT THEIR SCUM/TOWN READS.

Keep it up, Math. You're doing great so far.

I can't address what doesn't exist. He just wants me gone because I will check him.

[Almost50]

Here's the players that are off limits because of someone else's role:
Accountant (Cleared by Narna) <<<

False. Narna already has a false-guilty which remains unexplained to-date.

Narna (Cleared by Giovanni) <<<

False. This is a bastard game and we are fully on top of the mechanics, let alone existing roles. (why can't Gio have been somehow protected on that night, thus not dying?)

Creeps20 (Cleared by Narna) <<<

False. See above.

Myself (Cleared by Narna) <<<

False. See above.

Conclusion: THERE ARE NO CLEARS UNTIL WE'VE SEEN CERTAIN FLIPS.

Here's the players that are apparently off limits because of their own role:
Giovanni (A weak role, presumably giving us conftown) <<<

Agreed, although it's not 100% because the role is not mod-confirmed.

JaeReed (A VT, presumably going to be cleared tonight) <<<

Agreed. Tonight's check should put them in the CONF!TOWN column.

BigYoshiFan (A uni-doc, the only good explanation for why there was no kill last night) <<<

Agreed, especially with no CC.

SirCakez (An inventor, which i dunno, I guess we're just giving a pass because largely pro-town role) <<<

I'd have to give this another try, but ok.. I'll give you that for now.

Here's the players of those remaining that I townread enough that I really don't want them lynched today:
MathBlade <<<

#@$%##. Erm.. no comment.

Not Chara <<<

This looks like Town!Chara, sure.

Which leaves us with:
PeregrineV
Almost50
Ankamius

Then you lynch ME (but don't force Ank to hammer).

You see, the problem is you have no real case on any of your suspects, which should give you some pause. If there's not enough reason on them independently (and there sure is no reason to scum read them by linking them to either scum because we have yet to flip one) then it's not a good lynch, and especially so given the game status.

If you want info leading to confirm 3 players = lynch Narna
If you want to stop moon-logic and bad arguments = lynch Math

If you still don't want either of them to be lynched because YOU read them as Town (not be "they ARE Town"), then we lynch Accountant, and if that's not applicable then me.

I obviously won't be lynching myself, and I do Town read Narna myself. I'm starting to second guess my read on Math, but I think Accountant is the way to go. I've also excluded Cakez based on the invention claim until I've looked deeper into that one.

Also, you can't convince me that Math (Creature), Accountant (Firebringer) and Jae (Andrius) are ALL Town who have all agreed to advocate abandoning game. If I had to pick one scum of them it's be Firebringer (now: Accountant), and if I had to pick one Town it would be Andrius (now: Jae).

P.S. Doesn't it give you "creeps" we both have nothing much to say about a certain slot that was previously occupied by massive?? I see a lot of posts but nothing ever stuck on my memory.

[Ankamius]

SirCakez: I meant why you gave things to the people you gave them to, not why you gave certain things themselves.

[Almost50]

He just wants me gone because I will check him.

Another wild goose to chase. You don't know what goes into their mind, and they sure do have good reason to want you gone. I want you lynched as well, and I'm not your stated target. At some point you wanted Nahdia gone, and -using your own justification process- it must've been because you don't want them to jail you or your partners. You wanted me dead, and -again using the same "I know what's going on in that deep little spot of your brain" reasoning- it must be because you can't kill me yourself or you would lose your powers.

Jae expressed their suspicions and laid their case. Everyone else is entitled to either join their cause or decline, but that's about it. Nobody knows for sure if Jae's stated reasons ARE the real reasons or if they simply saw BAD PLAY and decided to exploit it to their advantage.

[BigYoshiFan]

No, I don't give a crap if you check me or not because you're going to lie about the result regardless. Everything you're doing is pushing things to try and make it fit your scumreads/townreads. You are literally trying to bend the events of this game to your will and it's scummy af and I'm pissed I didn't catch you from it in Shadowrun but I'll be damned if I let you do it to me again. In Shadowrun I handwaved a lot of things as "Math is unreasonable" but the difference is there's some logic to your unreasonableness as town, and there's none here.

Great so you want to policy me because I tricked people in Shadowrun lovely. keep up the good scumhunting. (The last sentence is sarcastic)

That's not what I said and you know it. This is again twisting things. Twisting things is a scum move from you.

Yup, I see it and I've been trying to point it out too.

[MathBlade]

He just wants me gone because I will check him.

Another wild goose to chase. You don't know what goes into their mind, and they sure do have good reason to want you gone. I want you lynched as well, and I'm not your stated target. At some point you wanted Nahdia gone, and -using your own justification process- it must've been because you don't want them to jail you or your partners. You wanted me dead, and -again using the same "I know what's going on in that deep little spot of your brain" reasoning- it must be because you can't kill me yourself or you would lose your powers.

Jae expressed their suspicions and laid their case. Everyone else is entitled to either join their cause or decline, but that's about it. Nobody knows for sure if Jae's stated reasons ARE the real reasons or if they simply saw BAD PLAY and decided to exploit it to their advantage.

What reasons? All I see are "I don't get Math" and twisting words. Please find this case I hear so much about.

[BigYoshiFan]

He just wants me gone because I will check him.

Another wild goose to chase. You don't know what goes into their mind, and they sure do have good reason to want you gone. I want you lynched as well, and I'm not your stated target. At some point you wanted Nahdia gone, and -using your own justification process- it must've been because you don't want them to jail you or your partners. You wanted me dead, and -again using the same "I know what's going on in that deep little spot of your brain" reasoning- it must be because you can't kill me yourself or you would lose your powers.

Jae expressed their suspicions and laid their case. Everyone else is entitled to either join their cause or decline, but that's about it. Nobody knows for sure if Jae's stated reasons ARE the real reasons or if they simply saw BAD PLAY and decided to exploit it to their advantage.

What reasons? All I see are "I don't get Math" and

twisting words

. Please find this case I hear so much about.

Whadda hypocrite. He isn't even using twisted words.

[Nahdia]

Here's the players that are off limits because of someone else's role:
Accountant (Cleared by Narna) <<<

False. Narna already has a false-guilty which remains unexplained to-date.

Narna (Cleared by Giovanni) <<<

False. This is a bastard game and we are fully on top of the mechanics, let alone existing roles. (why can't Gio have been somehow protected on that night, thus not dying?)

Creeps20 (Cleared by Narna) <<<

False. See above.

Myself (Cleared by Narna) <<<

False. See above.

Conclusion: THERE ARE NO CLEARS UNTIL WE'VE SEEN CERTAIN FLIPS.

Here's the players that are apparently off limits because of their own role:
Giovanni (A weak role, presumably giving us conftown) <<<

Agreed, although it's not 100% because the role is not mod-confirmed.

JaeReed (A VT, presumably going to be cleared tonight) <<<

Agreed. Tonight's check should put them in the CONF!TOWN column.

BigYoshiFan (A uni-doc, the only good explanation for why there was no kill last night) <<<

Agreed, especially with no CC.

SirCakez (An inventor, which i dunno, I guess we're just giving a pass because largely pro-town role) <<<

I'd have to give this another try, but ok.. I'll give you that for now.

Here's the players of those remaining that I townread enough that I really don't want them lynched today:
MathBlade <<<

#@$%##. Erm.. no comment.

Not Chara <<<

This looks like Town!Chara, sure.

Which leaves us with:
PeregrineV
Almost50
Ankamius

Then you lynch ME (but don't force Ank to hammer).

You see, the problem is you have no real case on any of your suspects, which should give you some pause. If there's not enough reason on them independently (and there sure is no reason to scum read them by linking them to either scum because we have yet to flip one) then it's not a good lynch, and especially so given the game status.

If you want info leading to confirm 3 players = lynch Narna
If you want to stop moon-logic and bad arguments = lynch Math

If you still don't want either of them to be lynched because YOU read them as Town (not be "they ARE Town"), then we lynch Accountant, and if that's not applicable then me.

I obviously won't be lynching myself, and I do Town read Narna myself. I'm starting to second guess my read on Math, but I think Accountant is the way to go. I've also excluded Cakez based on the invention claim until I've looked deeper into that one.

Also, you can't convince me that Math (Creature), Accountant (Firebringer) and Jae (Andrius) are ALL Town who have all agreed to advocate abandoning game. If I had to pick one scum of them it's be Firebringer (now: Accountant), and if I had to pick one Town it would be Andrius (now: Jae).

P.S. Doesn't it give you "creeps" we both have nothing much to say about a certain slot that was previously occupied by massive?? I see a lot of posts but nothing ever stuck on my memory.

First off, your refusal of Giovanni's clear on Narna is a

H U G E

fucking stretch. As for Narna...

Narna for the love of fucking god

READ & RESPOND TO THIS.

That is, if you want to go on Maxous' word.

What about Narna's?

I mean, Narna isn't flipped non-town so the reason to explicitly doubt them isn't as strong but yeah ok.
Speaking of which. Narna, did you ever do what I asked and explicitly asked Skullduggery what the result would be if you targeted someone with Shiro's role with your ability?

Bottom line is; Narna is being confirmed by Giovanni, and Narna's role functions as described in their role PM. They can't be a hidden insane because Skullduggery's rules confirm they're not a hidden insane. That's just a fact. Yes, there's still the question of what the fuck happened with Shiro, but whatever happened to that slot doesn't immediately corrupt what happened with the other slots because, again, we know how Narna's role functions under normal circumstances.

Moving on.
Yes, the SirCakez thing is the weakest of all those in that category. It's important to note that this isn't a list of people I consider "clear" but rather a list of people who seem off the table to lynch

today

. Which, by the way, also should (I made an error) include MathBlade as off limits because they're the ones with the neapolitan check that can clear Jae. We lynch Math today, we never get anything on Jae's slot.
I'm not pushing you for it but how fucking laughable that you agree that Giovanni should be off the table a few sentences after you write that explaination of Giovanni's clear being invalid you god damned meshuggener.

& finally; Creeps. I actually am

trying

desperately to have a dialog with Creeps right now but he's lurking so hard it's agonizing to do so. Speaking of which...

Creeps20, respond to this.

Creeps, who was targeted by your slot Night 2?

Leonshade.

That took a long time to find

Thanks. Do you have any indication that you KNOW your action was fully resolved?

I know it seems inconsequential but it's important for reasons beyond yourself which I can hopefully explain once I get your answer.

[MathBlade]

He just wants me gone because I will check him.

Another wild goose to chase. You don't know what goes into their mind, and they sure do have good reason to want you gone. I want you lynched as well, and I'm not your stated target. At some point you wanted Nahdia gone, and -using your own justification process- it must've been because you don't want them to jail you or your partners. You wanted me dead, and -again using the same "I know what's going on in that deep little spot of your brain" reasoning- it must be because you can't kill me yourself or you would lose your powers.

Jae expressed their suspicions and laid their case. Everyone else is entitled to either join their cause or decline, but that's about it. Nobody knows for sure if Jae's stated reasons ARE the real reasons or if they simply saw BAD PLAY and decided to exploit it to their advantage.

What reasons? All I see are "I don't get Math" and

twisting words

. Please find this case I hear so much about.

Whadda hypocrite. He isn't even using twisted words.

I didn't say he was. I said he said I was. Which is wrong. If anything that was you twisting.

[BigYoshiFan]

He just wants me gone because I will check him.

Another wild goose to chase. You don't know what goes into their mind, and they sure do have good reason to want you gone. I want you lynched as well, and I'm not your stated target. At some point you wanted Nahdia gone, and -using your own justification process- it must've been because you don't want them to jail you or your partners. You wanted me dead, and -again using the same "I know what's going on in that deep little spot of your brain" reasoning- it must be because you can't kill me yourself or you would lose your powers.

Jae expressed their suspicions and laid their case. Everyone else is entitled to either join their cause or decline, but that's about it. Nobody knows for sure if Jae's stated reasons ARE the real reasons or if they simply saw BAD PLAY and decided to exploit it to their advantage.

What reasons? All I see are "I don't get Math" and

twisting words

. Please find this case I hear so much about.

Whadda hypocrite. He isn't even using twisted words.

I didn't say he was. I said he said I was. Which is wrong. If anything that was you twisting.

Perhaps I read that wrong? I still don't see where he said you are using twisting words, he's using (what he interprets as) your mindset as further evidence.

[MathBlade]

Nahdia please don't get a case of the MathBlade's Then people will be all mean to you when you point out common sense things.

[MathBlade]

No, I don't give a crap if you check me or not because you're going to lie about the result regardless. Everything you're doing is pushing things to try and make it fit your scumreads/townreads. You are literally trying to bend the events of this game to your will and it's scummy af and I'm pissed I didn't catch you from it in Shadowrun but I'll be damned if I let you do it to me again. In Shadowrun I handwaved a lot of things as "Math is unreasonable" but the difference is there's some logic to your unreasonableness as town, and there's none here.

Great so you want to policy me because I tricked people in Shadowrun lovely. keep up the good scumhunting. (The last sentence is sarcastic)

That's not what I said and you know it. This is again twisting things. Twisting things is a scum move from you.

@Yoshi -- Here

[BigYoshiFan]

But the post I am referring to was made by A50.

[JaeReed]

Which, by the way, also should (I made an error) include MathBlade as off limits because they're the ones with the neapolitan check that can clear Jae. We lynch Math today, we never get anything on Jae's slot.

Spoiler alert: We're never getting anything useful on my slot anyway because Math is scum.

[MathBlade]

Which, by the way, also should (I made an error) include MathBlade as off limits because they're the ones with the neapolitan check that can clear Jae. We lynch Math today, we never get anything on Jae's slot.

Spoiler alert: We're never getting anything useful on my slot anyway because Math is scum.

Gee I am so shocked you came to this revelation after I was checking you. And SirCakez must be scum for giving me the tools to do that check.

[MathBlade]

Warning there was sarcasm because I am tired and angry.

[MathBlade]

But the post I am referring to was made by A50.

Almost50 said Jae made a case. I said Jae didn't.

[Almost50]

Then people will be all mean to you when you point out common sense things.

The definition of "common" is "coming from/used by a majority". In other words, common sense is "a view shared by most people".

Now when you point out something that the majority disagrees on it is no longer "common sense". It's just "your own opinion".

Like; it common sense not to piss in water people drink from. It's common sense not to stand behind a donkey/mule.

It is NOT common sense to assume if I can't see someone from where I'm standing then they cannot see me either. (unless I'm an Ostrich)

[MathBlade]

Common sense per the dictionary: good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.

It doesn't change based on popular opinion. In fact I find most people in the real world lack common sense. Common sense is actually rather uncommon.

[JaeReed]

For those town and not convinced that Math is scum:

Math has decided SirCakez is town because they can confirm his role through having received the Neapolitan.
Math has decided my slot is scum

despite

my slot claiming VT early, and offering to be the check from Titus, and returning a Vanilla result from Titus. Math has decided my slot is either Goon or Cult because of this.

These two viewpoints cannot exist together and be genuine. They just cannot. This is the logical progression that Math has as town which they do not have as scum. Town Math would decide either Cakez is not town just because of the role being confirmed to them, or they would decide that my slot is town. There would be consistency. There is not. Ergo, Math is scum.

[JaeReed]

I don't know if my vote is there but in case it's not:

VOTE: MathBlade