Mini 1856 - This Mafia Game is for pieguyn (Game Over)

[pieguyn]

even if he says he would, I don't trust that he actually would.

I do feel mostly sure the game is won if we make all of {pisskop, Cakez, Luna} dead regardless, ftr, which is why I would prefer if people could explain to me what issues they're actually having with GE's play here. from my POV, no one has given anything, so I don't understand why there's such a holdup about him.

[Nahdia]

It seems pretty obvious to me scum is intentionally nokilling due to fears of being tracked/blocked and then being incriminated

Good point
Just the track then

my problem is that this is a valid point.

[pieguyn]

scum literally can't kill regardless of who it is here, I think. they either try to kill one of Luna or Cakez, at which point the other comes out with a clear or a guilty on them and they've condemned themselves via POE, or they try to kill one of us, and they've condemned themselves via POE again as long as Luna and Cakez come out with clears on different players.

the only viable route to a scum victory here is to mislynch today and then win a claim/CC situation in 4p the next day, and even if we want to HEA this game instead of risking it on GE being town, we have basically a free lynch today since we can always just HEA it in 4p tomorrow.

or am I missing something?

[pieguyn]

I think what happened was N1 scum -> Aero, N2 N3 scum -> no kill in order to get town to lynch Aero, N4 N5 scum -> no kill because it literally is just too risky for them to make a kill (which is why I said earlier, the only way killing is optimal is if it's someone like GE and they are in fact ballsy enough to try to go for the kill and avoid the HEA scenario).

[Nahdia]

you're missing a few things
1) HEA isn't a win so let's not aim for it please
2) the only viable route to a scum victory here is to mislynch

SirCakez or Luna Fox

today then win a claim/CC situation in 4p the next day.

[Nahdia]

I mean, my understanding is that neither the mechanic nor the philosophy that goes with it of "meteor" (an EpicMafia term) doesn't exist on MafiaScum. If this were EM, would could legally (in the games' laws anyway) obligate mafia to eventually kill someone. But I don't think that exists here?

[pieguyn]

I don't want to happily-ever-after the game, it is just something I brought up because a lot of people were talking about it (including I thought you at one point. might be mistaken)

I am not sure that I get your point 2) but I'll go back and look again.

[Nahdia]

If both SirCakez & Luna are alive tonight, scum is going to continue being scared shitless of killing at night, meaning they we won't progress to 4p MYLO, we'll progress to 5p LYLO+1

[pieguyn]

If both SirCakez & Luna are alive tonight, scum is going to continue being scared shitless of killing at night, meaning they we won't progress to 4p MYLO, we'll progress to 5p LYLO+1

oh.

the problem is that if it is one of {Cakez, Luna}, they *could* kill tonight and then force a 1v1 with the other tomorrow. or am I still missing something?

[pieguyn]

the other thing is that regardless of what we do, if there's no kill, we'll still only have 2 lynches to hit 3 potential scum.

[pieguyn]

I definitely agree that if we're following a plan it's optimal to lynch outside of Cakez/Luna. I think it would need to be pisskop, as I said before. the problem is that the plan wherein pisskop is lynched requires us to gamble on someone else being town; I think the best shot is GE.

the Cakez lynch was just on the table because I feel maybe 75% sure it ends the game and pisskop is making the game completely insufferable for me. it definitely isn't optimal.

[Nahdia]

That all sounds about right.

I'm just trying to logic out if lynching in {SirCakez, Luna} might be potentially shooting ourselves in the foot as opposed to lynching in {pisskop, Gamma}.

[pieguyn]

if pisskop really wants to stop fighting, then if he promises to follow along with it, we could lynch Cakez and have Luna block GE and gamble on him being town instead.

[pieguyn]

that was the original plan I had in mind as soon as D5 opened with a no kill, which I had to abandon because of pisskop's ridiculous tunnel on me.

[pieguyn]

that was the original plan I had in mind as soon as D5 opened with a no kill, which I had to abandon because of pisskop's ridiculous tunnel on me.

moreover, honestly he literally had no reason to not accept this had he been scum here because it would have led into an uncontested win for him, so that's another reason for him being town, I guess.

[Gamma Emerald]

I say
Lynch in me/pisskop
Luna RBs the leftovers, SC tracks Luna/pie

[pieguyn]

as Nahdia and I just discussed, that plan is not correct since Cakez/Luna can make a kill and then 1v1 each other if one of them is scum, and we'd only have enough time to lynch one of them.

if we don't lynch pisskop: lynch Cakez -> Luna blocks you -> we clear out both {you, Luna}

if we do lynch pisskop: lynch pisskop -> Luna blocks Cakez -> we clear out both {Luna, Cakez}.

[Gamma Emerald]

But Luna is not clear.

[pieguyn]

both of those plans make Luna dead?

the former plan relies on you being town, the latter relies on pisskop being town (which is what I would feel more comfortable with if he would promise to follow it).

[pisskop]

especially when he won't listen to anything I say anyway even if I *was* to confirm myself.

pisskop?

im not the one besmeerching peoples good mafia name.

i have, multiple times, explained my position on pie. if shes town shenis town.

she.keepsnon insisting that this magic gulf exists between us and that im tunneling her.

besides, she knows that me refusing to conf her comes from good experience

[pisskop]

yea. theres been mothing stopping us from lynching by the numbers - but pie's refusal

[pieguyn]

if we don't lynch pisskop: lynch Cakez -> Luna blocks you -> we clear out both {you, Luna}

pisskop, if you explicitly agree to this plan and promise that you won't back out of it, then I'm fine with it.

the thing is, though, I proposed this exact plan in my first post after D5 started, and your reaction was most certainly not to agree with it, you continued going on with your ridiculous push on me. I have no reason to assume I can trust you in a 3p LYLO with you, me, and another person, unless I get explicit confirmation that you'll follow the plan and not go off on your own accord at any later stage of the plan.

[pisskop]

scum cannot kill; luna's role does nothing

[pieguyn]

_will you follow the plan, yes or no._

I want an explicit agreement - that after the Cakez lynch today, you either lynch GE and Luna in that order if no kills happen or Luna if a kill happens tonight when she blocks GE.

[SirCakez]

I mean I'm obviously the one keeping scum from killing.
Why would I be nokilling here as scum?