Newbie 509 - Game Over

[Dean Harper]

how do you know i wasnt thinking like that Cepi? The only things you know i was thinking about were what I posted in the forum, i have my own thoughts in my own head, outside of this game. And IF i hadnt thought like that when Xyl was scumhunting me, what would it matter?

You seem to have a lot of hostility towards me Cepi, and that raises my suspicions of you even more, as you defended me earlier and now are completely trying to find everything wrong with my posts. This may just be your idea of scumhunting, but it really just makes me wholly suspicious of you.

Xyl posted that he wasn't considering me completely scummy anymore, if you look back at some of the posts. I believe its page 4 or so.

[cepi]

If u havent realized, Im being kinda agressive here with all players. All the information we're going to get here are posts and reactions to them, so you are not going to win this game if you dont make people talk and react.

The reason u r getting more atention is because a) You have serious flaws in ur posts and b) You are my principal suspect.

Yes, I know I defended u earlier. It was a bad idea to get a lynch that early (which is ironic because u quicklynched someone) and I really thought u were a townie scumhunting very agressively. However, all this Tenebrys situation and ur reactions after this makes me think in u as a possibility. No hostility here, just playing the game.

Xyl posted that he wasn't considering me completely scummy anymore, if you look back at some of the posts. I believe its page 4 or so.

Ill let Xyl respond to that.

[Xylthixlm]

BTW, Xyl, do u still think DH is scum as hell ? I reread all the posts this morning and I found out u were pretty conviced.

If I thought he was scummy as hell he would be on my 2-person list.

This is a weak guess until u dont explain yourself. I need ur opinions now.

I'm still waiting for Rishi to answer my question. But...

cepi: You have now voted or FOSed every single other player at some point in the game. It makes me think you're looking for an easy lynch.

Rishi: A lot of pushing others to contribute opinions. Almost no contributing his own opinions. What he does contribute is mostly saying that he doesn't find anyone very scummy. He seems to be trying to avoid attention more than help find scum.

[Dean Harper]

personally, my vote is going to go Cepi, as soon as everyone figures out who they are going to vote for.

[JDodge]

Vote Count

:

Not voting (5): Rishi, Xylthixlm, cepi, spurgistan, Dean Harper

3 to lynch.

[Dean Harper]

i think ppl need prods.

[spurgistan]

First off, happy birthday Dean. 16, eh? Congrats.

But then to dispense with that, if I were scum right now, I'd be pretty happy with the way this game is going. Last thing I'd want to do is be aggressive. In fact, if I got lucky and was off the townie bandwagon day 1, I'd be pretty glad with the way this game is going, and would be keeping a very low profile. Which is part of the reason I'd like to hear from Rishi. The other bit being like the fact that I like his analysis, but anyways, anybody feel like sticking their neck out a bit? I personally am willing to express my suspicion of Rishi again.

FOS

[Dean Harper]

Rishi and Cepi are the top two on my suspicion list, but ive already posted my opinion. Thanks spurg, yeah, its the big 16

[Dean Harper]

[cepi]

Prèmierement, Happy SS, DH

Im out of town but I somehow managed to get an Internet connection. Just a quick read of the things here. Ill be back wednesday.

Rishi and Cepi are the top two on my suspicion list, but ive already posted my opinion.

.

personally, my vote is going to go Cepi, as soon as everyone figures out who they are going to vote for.

A lot of information without backup. I wanna know the exact reason(s) why are u suspecting me? what about Rishi?

If I thought he was scummy as hell he would be on my 2-person list

Why are u so sure in this? At this point of the game, anybody here can be scum. What do u think of the other players?

I'm still waiting for Rishi to answer my question

Yeah, me too.

Mod, we need a prod on Rishi.

cepi: You have now voted or FOSed every single other player at some point in the game. It makes me think you're looking for an easy lynch.

I dont get this. I DO NOT want a quick lynch. In any terms. I wont vote until Im 100% sure of my choice and its a little early for that. Dont u see Im trying to get people to talk? Why this is scummy? How do u plan to win this game?

And then, what do u think is the scummiest :a)I FOS one, maybe two players, trying to get a quick lynch in any of these players without bothering my scum parter... or ... b) I FOS everyone trying to get the real role of all players, (and their opinions, btw) so I can decide which is which, and win this game?

Everyone but you, Xyl, are feeling very scummy to me, but these last posts make me feel I cant trust no one. Im not going to FOS u, because I think u dont seem to catch my gamestyle and Im still sure that theres a scum between DH and Spurgistan. Also, Rishis lurking is still hurting my brains. So are there a lot of suspects to even think of u as a possible scumpair? I dont know. There something that just doesnt fit.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm not completely sure about DH. But he strikes me as less likely to be scum than any of the other players. If his overaggressive-clueless-town-newbieness is faked, he deserves to win.

spurgistan seems more protown than scummy. He's given some good analysis, and isn't afraid to say what he thinks. There's nothing to make me think he's scum. That doesn't mean I trust him, it means I don't think he's the right person to lynch today.

cepi: It seems like you don't have real suspicions. You point out things you think are scummy one after the other, and when no one picks them up, you move on to another person. You say things like "anyone here can be scum", which is really just another way of saying "I don't know who is scum".

I FOS everyone trying to get the real role of all players

So you're deliberately role-fishing, and you think this makes you

less

scummy?

[Rishi]

Hey folks. Sorry for my absence. I have been very busy lately, and the fact that I was not posting in this thread has nothing to do with avoidance and everything to do with the fact that I didn't want to post without devoting proper time to this thread.

One thing that I see over and over again is that people tend to pile up on someone who is absent. Being absent from a thread has absolutely nothing to do with alignment. Occasionally, someone will be absent from the thread for all sorts of reasons,

most of which have nothing to do with the game.

If I say that I have not been around do to real life concerns, I want you all to accept that and not metagame it. In my experience, no good comes out of metagaming. I used to play like that, and then I got tired of being wrong. If there are any other questions directed towards me that I missed, please repeat them and I will be happy to answer them.

I am going to reiterate that spurgistan's vote to put Tenebrys at L-1 was more scummy than Dean Harper. If you look at DH's posts, he is a follower. Which could be a scumtell (often scum try to find townies to agree with). DH rarely comes up with original thoughts or opinions. He was voting for Tenebrys because it was the "cool thing" to do.

But, here's the thing that might make spurgistan seem less scummy. I am the only living player who did not vote for Tenebrys. That means (since I know I'm a townie - I know you can't accept that blindly, but I have to write from my own perspective) that BOTH scum were on the lynch. Usually, it's a bad idea for scum to follow other scum.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the order of the lynch was Xyl (early), then cepi, spurgistan and Dean Harper. Now, spurgistan knows better than to follow his partner on Day 1 than that (I would think). Dean Harper, on the other hand, is the follower. I know, for a fact, that spurgistan knows better than to vote for someone immediately (in the next couple posts) after his partner. So, I think, if spurgistan was scum, his partner is either Xyl (spurg forgot about Xyl's vote) or DH (DH followed spurg's vote). I don't know if I find either of these scenarios likely.

As for cepi, no idea. All the aggression has not put him on the defensive at all, so it's tough to gauge his alignment. I'll do a readthrough on cepi at some point and see if I can come up with some questions.

As a note, cepi, regardless of your alignment, your overly aggressive attitude makes you seem scummy and makes me want to lynch you. Either as a townie or as Mafia, you should not want to be lynched. We can afford a little aggression on Day 1, but in a lynch-or-lose situation, it's not helpful.

Here's a question, cepi. Your playstyle on Day 2 is significantly different than Day 1. Why?

[Xylthixlm]

A recent study showed that people tend to interpret a lack of information about another person in the most favorable way. My experience on IRC shows the same applies to Mafia. I counteract it by taking silence as a sign that someone is trying to hide something.

[Rishi]

A recent study showed that people tend to interpret a lack of information about another person in the most favorable way. My experience on IRC shows the same applies to Mafia. I counteract it by taking silence as a sign that someone is trying to hide something.

That may be true on IRC, but here I think the opposite is true. Most players on here seem suspicious of people who don't contribute, even if that lack of contribution has no correlation to the game.

[spurgistan]

This isn't an accusation, Rishi, I really like hearing you post. But would you agree that the correct play for scum here, as they're on the verge of winning with no evidence of power roles thus far, would be to sit back and let the townies yell at each other?

[Rishi]

This isn't an accusation, Rishi, I really like hearing you post. But would you agree that the correct play for scum here, as they're on the verge of winning with no evidence of power roles thus far, would be to sit back and let the townies yell at each other?

Well, yeah. That would be smart. And I realize I have been the least active as of late, but I am hoping that will change.

[Dean Harper]

despite cepis comments my vote will still go for him as all other layers give me little to suspect them. That may sound scummy as hell, but to me, its the truth. My reasons are as follows:

1) cepi seems to have completely flipped after the tenebrys lynch, and now wants me lynched.

2) this seems like a drastic change in mannerism from when he defended me against xyl

3) he assumed that xyl still found me the most scummy, even though xyl had posted that he did not.

4) finally he makes a very unconvincing reason for xyl's question about FOSing or voting every person here, as seen in post 159.


Those are my reasons cepi, if anyone has any questions, please ask.

[spurgistan]

One thing is Dean, a valuable part of scum-hunting is to see if you can't guess who a player would be partnered with as scum. Going through the thread, it's not entirely obvious who a Cepi scumpartner would be. I guess I voted Tenebrys right after he did, so that could be considered a tell, but I thought that Cepi's was the first vote on the WoW freak. The only other notable interaction anybody has had with Cepi (he's been aggressive, but equally so, more or less; if you are scum, very well played so far) is you (Dean) always hounding him, which is possible busing, but I think we ought to look aways from you guys for a while. I'm a bit confused on Xyl right now, think I'll run a read through and quick n' dirty analysis on him.

[Rishi]

I actually agree with spurgistan. If cepi is scum, he's hardcore distancing himself from people. There's no logical partnership for him, except maybe Xyl.

[Dean Harper]

I agree that cepi and xyl could be scumpartners, as I used the tactic of putting slight suspicion of my scumpartner in game 459as a way of distancing us from eachother. Where I then proved my suspicions wrong and was able to get a townie to vote pro mafia and win us the game. I could see that strategy applying to cepi and xyl.

[cepi]

Glad to know u r back, Rishi. U picked a great moment, huh?

Here's a question, cepi. Your playstyle on Day 2 is significantly different than Day 1. Why?

IMO, Day1 is pretty random. And I think I wasnt that quiet. Being kinda agressive now when I could be 50% right-wrong is the perfect time for gathering unusual reactions. Like urs. Read farther.

Well, yeah. That would be smart. And I realize I have been the least active as of late, but I am hoping that will change.

Fun fact : Rishi had been posting in all his other games but this.

As for cepi, no idea. All the aggression has not put him on the defensive at all, so it's tough to gauge his alignment. I'll do a readthrough on cepi at some point and see if I can come up with some questions.

As a note, cepi, regardless of your alignment, your overly aggressive attitude makes you seem scummy and makes me want to lynch you. Either as a townie or as Mafia, you should not want to be lynched. We can afford a little aggression on Day 1, but in a lynch-or-lose situation, it's not helpful.

I have the feeling this last two paragraphs contradict each other. So do u have an idea of my alignment (paragraph1) or do I seem scummy to u (paragraph 2)?

Why are u putting suspcions on me and at the same trying to not be so obvious with it? Did u need previous support from DH and Xyl to post something like that? Where have I seen this situation before? Let me see... Thinking...Thinking..... Gotcha! Guess where I found it. Last page!

You tried the same with Spurgistan after the previous support of DH and myself with my first possible scumpair (DH-Spurg) in the first post of D-2. Townies read the last two pages for more reference. Looks like I noticed before and then u suddenly changed plans.

Also, dont u see a coincidence here? Who was in the two attacks?

This next fella:

1) cepi seems to have completely flipped after the tenebrys lynch, and now wants me lynched.

2) this seems like a drastic change in mannerism from when he defended me against xyl

3) he assumed that xyl still found me the most scummy, even though xyl had posted that he did not.

4) finally he makes a very unconvincing reason for xyl's question about FOSing or voting every person here, as seen in post 159.

Reason 1 and 2 are definetely just one silly reason. U tricked me very well, DH. I believed u but not anymore.
Reason 3 I didnt assume anything. And I did know Xyl posted that. I just tried to find a possible connection between u and Xyl. I never asked anything to u.
Reason 4 Whats unconvincing there? Can u quote some parts explaining urself why they felt unconvincing?

I agree that cepi and xyl could be scumpartners, as I used the tactic of putting slight suspicion of my scumpartner in game 459as a way of distancing us from eachother. Where I then proved my suspicions wrong and was able to get a townie to vote pro mafia and win us the game. I could see that strategy applying to cepi and xyl.

So, this isnt ur first game. Then, How didnt u know what an IC or even a FOS was?

Yeah, its definetely them.

SFOS : Rishi and DH

[Rishi]

Well, yeah. That would be smart. And I realize I have been the least active as of late, but I am hoping that will change.

Fun fact : Rishi had been posting in all his other games but this.

In all my other games? Really? How many games do you think I'm in? Did you count? Did you read my posts or did you just quickly scan "Find all posts by Rishi"?

I told you that the metagaming argument is not a good one. And I'm telling you that not to save myself or to try to manipulate the system. I say that from EXPERIENCE. This is general advice that has nothing to do with the game. And if you're not trying to learn anything, get out of the newbie game.

The fact is you're making a bad argument. The posts in my other games have been 1-2 sentence responses. Even if I don't have time to post, I do read my games. If there's something that I can contribute that I think is worthwhile in a short response, I am going to do it. I knew that this game required a longer and more detailed response. So I waited until I had the time to post such a response. And if you bothered to read any of the other posts, you would see that I did mention in other threads that I didn't have time to post something more cogent.

As for cepi, no idea. All the aggression has not put him on the defensive at all, so it's tough to gauge his alignment. I'll do a readthrough on cepi at some point and see if I can come up with some questions.

As a note, cepi, regardless of your alignment, your overly aggressive attitude makes you seem scummy and makes me want to lynch you. Either as a townie or as Mafia, you should not want to be lynched. We can afford a little aggression on Day 1, but in a lynch-or-lose situation, it's not helpful.

I have the feeling this last two paragraphs contradict each other. So do u have an idea of my alignment (paragraph1) or do I seem scummy to u (paragraph 2)?

I'm not attacking you. The paragraphs do not contradict each other. You could be an aggressive (and bad) player that happens to be a townie.

When I say it makes you seem scummy, I am talking about how I expect people to react. I can see past that and note that you just don't know what you're doing. You think that you're going to get somewhere by coming out with guns blazing. What you're actually doing is hijacking the thread with your tunnel-vision on me and DH. You're allowing spurg and Xyl to sit back and watch us go at each other's throats. If either (or both) of them is scum, you're handing them the game. (By the way, since you've shown your reading skills are not up to par, this is not an accusation - it's a hypothetical situation.)

But, what you are doing is trying to trigger an emotional response in the other players by posting intentionally incendiary responses. You seem to think that scum is going to jump and react to that. The fact is that, when you use your style of play, townies who are innocent resent being accused and react emotionally.

So, if you are town, I am asking you to please stop. It's distracting and annoying.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm sorry if I haven't been posting as much, I just got done with finals. I'll try to find some time for analysis after my brain has unwound.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm not completely sure about DH. But he strikes me as less likely to be scum than any of the other players. If his overaggressive-clueless-town-newbieness is faked, he deserves to win.

I agree that cepi and xyl could be scumpartners, as I used the tactic of putting slight suspicion of my scumpartner in game 459as a way of distancing us from eachother. Where I then proved my suspicions wrong and was able to get a townie to vote pro mafia and win us the game. I could see that strategy applying to cepi and xyl.

So, this isnt ur first game. Then, How didnt u know what an IC or even a FOS was?

This seemed weird to me too, so just checked game 459. DH replaced into that game on Nov 23, a few days after this game started.

[cepi]

This seemed weird to me too, so just checked game 459. DH replaced into that game on Nov 23, a few days after this game started.

Yeah, I didnt check game 459 before posting my answer. I was busy at work and just planned to read it at home. However, now that I had some minutes trying to read some of DH posts there, I found that this "newbie" DH is really an intelligent player and I now know what he's capable of doing.

Correct me if Im wrong. Would a player so active, fast and engaged with this game as him, not know what an IC or a FOS is? Would this player have miscounted the votes?

I'm not attacking you. The paragraphs do not contradict each other. You could be an aggressive (and bad) player that happens to be a townie.

When I say it makes you seem scummy, I am talking about how I expect people to react. I can see past that and note that you just don't know what you're doing..

Well, I must get glasses then. In this sentence my behaviour makes you want to lynch me.

As a note, cepi, regardless of your alignment, your overly aggressive attitude makes you seem scummy and

makes me want to lynch you

So, if you are town, I am asking you to please stop. It's distracting and annoying.

Easy there, Rishi. You seem a little overreactive for an IC. So, whats ur suggestion? Stay quiet (like u did) and let mafia mess with townies' minds. Sorry, not my style.

BTW, It doesnt hurt to let town a "I have a lot to do, Ill post later" note. One or two sentences (like in ur other games) saying that would have been enough.