Mini 536: Heroes Smalltown. Game Over!

[Thestatusquo]

*sigh*

[curiouskarmadog]

is an answer?

[Thestatusquo]

In a sense, yes.

[Gorgon]

Given the preponderance of investigative roles, one strategy we might employ would be to attempt to catch one or more of them in a trap by having them all reveal their investigation results each night in a given order. If we have cops A, B, C, then on day 2, we could make cop A reveal first, then cop B, then cop C. On day 3, we permute the order so that B reveals first, then C, then A, etc.

...

It seems that such a strategy might, in addition to making life difficult for scum cops, have the added benefit of turning part of the scum-hunting process into a logic puzzle which the town could solve, much like in Dethy-type games.

I haven't thought this through myself, but I certainly don't see the harm in everyone reporting their results every day, seeing that roles are already public knowledge, etc.

I don't think this strategy is viable because I don't suspect our investigative roles will survive for a large portion of the game.

That's a moot point, since the viability of the strategy is not dependent on the life expectancy of the investigative roles; their short life expectancy would merely reduce the effectiveness of the plan, not nullify it.

Oman, I find it very strange that you're doing a 180 on giving Adele powers. A couple pages ago you were discussing sending her your redirection ability, although it had previously been discussed at length that your powers in scum hands basically nullify investigation results and could make a town aligned doctor absolutely useless. Now you're getting hesitant about her being given Investigation powers, even though they can still be in the town's benefit if given to scum.

I concur.

Mathcam: His role is dangerous in mafia hands the longer we go on the more dangerous it becomes. Even if he is town then I would like to know who was visiting him.

If he is not their when you get their, we could have our SK

How would this role get more dangerous for the town as more time passes? A scum-for-townie trade is usually never a good deal for scum, seeing that they're in the minority.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the bolded part only applied to Matt (ZONEACE). I.e. if Matt tracks Sylar, he won't get information on his kill, only his nightchoice. The way I see it, Claude (YvonneSeer) only detects who targets the person he's watching, but doesn't get any other information.

LOL does it now? telling the scum what you are going to do before you do it is not the scum thing to do? nice SPIN. Answer me this DAS, why do you want to give scum information before tonight? Why do you want us to give the scum information before tonight?

The thing you're missing here is that this game is completely open with regards to abilities (except the nightkills). A reasonably smart mafia group

will

think things through, regardless of any discussion that goes on during the day. Covering all eventualities publically therefore, IMO, is more beneficial to the town than detrimental. Also, no one is (yet) saying that anyone should declare officially what they're going to do tonight. It's just a matter of everyone being aware of the optimum strategies. Capiche?

My 2 cents on general strategy at this point (assuming, where appropriate, that the people in question are town, yadayada):

shaft.ed should motivate investigative roles, or Linderman ... perhaps the person in this grop whom he feels is most protown. This is particularily effective if Oman is scum, since he would then be likely to mess with these roles, and he can only redirect one of the choices of a motivated person.

Giving Adele investigative powers is a good idea, in my mind. As discussed, they certainly can't hurt the town in the wrong hands, and seeing that statistically she is more likely to be town than scum ... why not do it?

JDodge and ckd should above all target someone who has a power that is harmful to the town in the hands of scum; preferrably someone who looks scummy as well. The 'harmful to town' factor applies particularily to ckd, since the person he locks up will be immune from Sylar's kill, thus preventing him from gaining their power.

Regarding this, ckd, how do you feel that the scum guessing beforehand whom you're likely to lock up would be harmful? An obvious answer is that they're likely to kill you (which is basically the 'only' thing they can do to you) if they feel you're becoming a potential threat. Well, to that I can only say that if the scum have roles that they feel you'd be likely to lock up, they'll probably make it a priority to kill you anyway, regardless of what gets said in the thread ... as per what I said above.

[Oman]

OM

A

N

A couple pages ago you were discussing sending her your redirection ability, although it had previously been discussed at length that your powers in scum hands basically nullify investigation results and could make a town aligned doctor absolutely useless. Now you're getting hesitant about her being given Investigation powers, even though they can still be in the town's benefit if given to scum.

To quote a great frog: Reading the Thread is Tech.

Adele is a key person to dicover the alignment of.

Adele, if you're town I want to target you ASAP. If you're scum, my role in your hands could be very not good.

I was talking about Adele's alignment and how important it was, you just wanted Adele to get the roles regardless.

The problem with scum running this gambit is that it will come down to two people telling the town that the other one is lying.

They could both be mafia.

Vote: Shaft.ed

This is the third (?) time you've done something strange like this. Its simply falsifying.

[davidangelsummers]

Mathcam: His role is dangerous in mafia hands the longer we go on the more dangerous it becomes. Even if he is town then I would like to know who was visiting him.

If he is not their when you get their, we could have our SK

How would this role get more dangerous for the town as more time passes? A scum-for-townie trade is usually never a good deal for scum, seeing that they're in the minority.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the bolded part only applied to Matt (ZONEACE). I.e. if Matt tracks Sylar, he won't get information on his kill, only his nightchoice. The way I see it, Claude (YvonneSeer) only detects who targets the person he's watching, but doesn't get any other information.

Claude:
You should be able to see who comes to visit them, even if you don't get a decent look at what they're doing.

Ah, ok so she can see who comes to visit someone but she cant see if the person she has come to see is thier? How would she ever know thats the right place to be? hmmmmmm ok,,,gottcha, I think.

As far as math cam was concered I was thinking more Omen taking his power and using it for evil doings near end game.
but as you can see thier is more prick holes in my lodgic then in a condom used by Kevin Federline on Britney Spears

[Zindaras]

I was supposed to be special.

I'll go and reread the game.

[shaft.ed]

I was talking about Adele's alignment and how important it was, you just wanted Adele to get the roles regardless.

I do want Adele to get these powers because we have two scumgroups that may want to kill eachother. This means that they might actually use the tracking/watching ability. Also if she doesn't use said ability but opps out for something more sinister that her scum partner passed her, she is going to have to fabricate an investigation result for the town since she won't have a real one. So if she is scum, we're essentially tying her hands by passing an investigative role.

The problem with scum running this gambit is that it will come down to two people telling the town that the other one is lying.

They could both be mafia.

So you don't want to spread out pro-town investigative roles because it gives the scum another way to bus eachother? Are you kidding me?

You seem very adamantly opposed to giving Adele investigative powers. I have provided much evidence that it is in the town's interest to send them her way. Would you please clearly explain why this is such a bad thing?

Vote: Shaft.ed

This is the third (?) time you've done something strange like this. Its simply falsifying.

I'm not the only one that found your statements fishy. I don't believe I have falsified anything. You are weirdly against doing something that is protown.

[YvonneSeer]

Okay, I think I've got an idea about how to optimally utilise Matt, Peter, Nathan and myself.

Night 1: Nathan motivates Matt or me. The one who gets motivated uses one target to pass on the power to Peter and uses the other target ordinarily.

Night 2: Nathan motivates the other one.

Night 3 onwards: Free for all.

If any of us are not motivated or if Peter does not receive the investigative power, then we may have found the anti-town among our small circle.

Also, that way, every night we'll still have results while passing our powers to Peter. How's that sound?

[shaft.ed]

Okay, I think I've got an idea about how to optimally utilise Matt, Peter, Nathan and myself.

Night 1: Nathan motivates Matt or me. The one who gets motivated uses one target to pass on the power to Peter and uses the other target ordinarily.

Night 2: Nathan motivates the other one.

Night 3 onwards: Free for all.

If any of us are not motivated or if Peter does not receive the investigative power, then we may have found the anti-town among our small circle.

Also, that way, every night we'll still have results while passing our powers to Peter. How's that sound?

Doesn't sound too bad. A little too choreographed though IMO. Basically, if Sylar wanted to target Peter and you Watch him today, he can make a pretty good guess that Peter is an available target D2. Same if Adele is mafia. If Peter gets Watched D1 then they know not to kill with Adele D2 (or really D1 for that matter). Also I'd like the Lindermann option to be open to me as him having a double protect could be very beneficial to the town.

[Thestatusquo]

Yes, I did find something strange about the comment, sahft.ed but I would like to hear what you find strange about it first.

[shaft.ed]

Yes, I did find something strange about the comment, sahft.ed but I would like to hear what you find strange about it first.

Which comment?

[Thestatusquo]

I missread you, apologies.

[Thestatusquo]

'lo?

[shaft.ed]

'lo?

Yeah I'm a bit disappointed, I thought this game would be very active due to how excited everyone was to be playing in it. I guess I'll try to get some conversation going.

-Oman would you please address my last post.

-Zoneace could you please reply to TSQ's questions from many weeks ago.

-Zindaras can you please post anything.

-JDodge can you try to do this

/in for smalltown

I plan on trying out a more calm, verbose playstyle this game.

I give it 5 pages before i break

Damn it's already page 9

[mathcam]

Doesn't sound too bad. A little too choreographed though IMO.

I agree. While nothing jumps out about the plan as being particularly dangerous, the more choreographed the plan is, the easier it is for the mafia to know how to circumvent it -- especially since this plan takes at least a couple of game days before we see any results out of it.

I think the game will pick-up once we've had a night's worth of abilities under our belts. It's hard for some people to get motivated just about the nuances of various strategies, as opposed to scum-hunting.

I think I'm leaving my vote on JDodge, with no new reasons than I had before (except possibly for increased lurking).

Cam

[JDodge]

Sick and busy. Will post content soon, but not now.

[mathcam]

Most effective lurker prod ever.

Cam

[Gorgon]

I think the game will pick-up once we've had a night's worth of abilities under our belts. It's hard for some people to get motivated just about the nuances of various strategies, as opposed to scum-hunting.

QFT. That said, maybe it's time to try to do some scumhunting.

I went back and read what Oman was saying about the possibility of passing his ability on to Adele, and I agree with him that shaft.ed misrepresented him slightly there.

Adele is a key person to dicover the alignment of.

Adele, if you're town I want to target you ASAP. If you're scum, my role in your hands could be very not good.

Doesn't sound that bad, actually. He acknowledges that it would be a very bad idea to give Adele his power if she's scum. And yes, there are possible ways of discovering Adele's alignment ... although I'm not sure how effective they are when it comes down to it. Point is, I don't think there's anything scummy about those comments of Oman's.

I still think it's a bit suspicious that he seems reluctant to give Adele investigative powers purely on the basis that she may be scum, though.

I also went back and skimmed over the game, and I must say I really don't like ckd's vote and subsequent unvote on mathcam.

vote mathcam

"for proposing a strategy for deciding who to vote for"

quite scummy

who proposes a strategy to vote for someone on the fisrt page of voting just based on roles?

to pick a lynch based on a role that could be too powerful if in the hands of scum no matter the alignment versus scum hunting the normal way to find scum?

to pick a lynch based on a role that could be too powerful if in the hands of scum no matter the alignment versus scum hunting the normal way to find scum?

do I really need to answer this question?

what is your plan tomorrow? Lynch the second most powerful role?

I dont mind the idea if we are generating conversation (like a random voting stage), but to lynch Day 1 based on this is crap.

I note that he says twice that he's objecting to mathcam suggesting people

vote

based on the roles, but then ups it to actually lynching, which is neither what matcham was suggesting, nor how ckd originally interpreted it.

well, i dont typically vote for someone unless I think they are scummy, thus would be ok for a lynch....but it sounds like you are only really proposing a conversation starter..

unvote.

Jdodge...now did you mean voting (like mathcam) or lynching?

Then he again acknowledges that matchcam's suggestion was just a conversation starter/voting device ... so which was it? Did ckd think that mathcam was proposing we lynch based on roles, or that he was merely generating conversation/semi-random votes?

Couple this with ckd's vote then downgrade to a FOS on das, and I find ckd to be suspiciously wavering in his accusations. This warrants a vote.

Vote: curiouskarmadog

[Oman]

Shaft.ed - It is a bad idea to give scum investigative powers. Why? because we'll TRUST her. And trusting scum is not a good move.

[mathcam]

Gorgon, I hear you on ckd, My only reservation is Adele's post:

karma's young enough I could half-believe it was a genuine error.

Reading through his posts again, I get a pretty genuine feel from his "headache" post. This certainly doesn't mean he can't be scum, but I'd believe a newbie defense (which he's sort of proffered in that post).

Oman: That's silly. Do you routinely believe anyone who claims to have an investigation result? I try to take

any

revealed information with a grain of salt. On top of that, any one of our investigative roles may have been handed to scum before the first post of the game -- our caution with respect to accepting investigation results better have already been in place.

Cam

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah...I've been thinking about this for a while, and the person I most want to see swing is zoneace. Literally the only things he has done this game are:

1) Posted saying he had noticed one thing.
2) When pressured said he had noticed more, but was witholding it.
3) Ignored questioning about that.
4) Posted something to the effect of "I'm totally not scum, I promise."
5) Said I was attacking him for OOG reasons, while STILL ignoring my questions.
6) Lurked like a mother fucker.

Unvote, Vote: Zoneace

FoS: Stay on CKD and Shaft.ed

[ZONEACE]

Yeah...I've been thinking about this for a while, and the person I most want to see swing is zoneace. Literally the only things he has done this game are:

1) Posted saying he had noticed one thing.
2) When pressured said he had noticed more, but was witholding it.
3) Ignored questioning about that.
4) Posted something to the effect of "I'm totally not scum, I promise."
5) Said I was attacking him for OOG reasons, while STILL ignoring my questions.
6) Lurked like a mother fucker.

Unvote, Vote: Zoneace

FoS: Stay on CKD and Shaft.ed

Unvote Vote: No Lynch

I think this is the best solution in this game situation. We don't risk lynching pro-town powers, and we give those people a chance to make themselves useful.

I do admit I've been ignoring TSQ. I'm not going to answer his questions about my observcations today because well, it's day one of a day start game where we know EVERYONE'S power, I'd rather not blow my load yet. I think we need a night of activities before we can make a legitimate attempt at locating our resident scums.

I await further attempts by TSQ to justify his policy lynch.

[Thestatusquo]

You know, just because I don't like you doesn't mean I am bringing that into the game. I joke voted you to start the game, that was it. I have been playing the game genuinely, and fairly. In fact, I even spent a significant portion of today voting someone besides you. Just because you want to dispel my attacks on you as some sort of "policy lynch" where I am ignoring everything else just to attack you does not mean you get to ignore the facts. Since you're ignoring my legitimate in game actions because of some preconceived notion of why I am doing them, YOU are the one bringing outside thoughts into this game, not me. In fact, so far I would hazard to say that you are not even PLAYING this game, seeing as your posting history can legitimately be boiled down to what I say in my previous post. I mean, do you have any problem with that summary? Is there something I'm missing? For the love of god could you play this game?

Secondly, I even granted you the possibility that you did not want to share stuff specific to this game. If that's such a big deal, could you at least respond to my post 174? Come on...Are you really going to try to just brush me off because we don't get along OOG? I repeat, I am not being unreasonable here.

[shaft.ed]

Unvote Vote: No Lynch

I think this is the best solution in this game situation. We don't risk lynching pro-town powers, and we give those people a chance to make themselves useful.

If you don't want to lynch because you're afraid of losing pro-town power roles you still have lynch candidates. For instance TSQ is vanilla, so no risk of losing a power there. And Matchcam has already proposed voting based on usefulness to town vs. danger if scum. At least two roles have been pointed out in that discussion. So why not pressure TSQ if all you're worried about is losing power roles?