Mini 536: Heroes Smalltown. Game Over!

[mathcam]

Given the preponderance of investigative roles, one strategy we might employ would be to attempt to catch one or more of them in a trap by having them all reveal their investigation results each night in a given order. If we have cops A, B, C, then on day 2, we could make cop A reveal first, then cop B, then cop C. On day 3, we permute the order so that B reveals first, then C, then A, etc.

In this way we might make it hard for a scum cop to do anything but report accurately, or get caught in a lie. I haven't completely thought this through, but it seems to me that the two most obvious reasons for a cop not revealing his/her investigations are that:

1) It reveals who the cop is.
2) It reveals an essentially-guaranteed innocent, making that person an obvious scum target.

The first of these is not a concern here, since the cops are public knowledge (assuming we have Adele reveals when she gets this power), and the second argument is significantly diluted because of the significant possibility that reported information is inaccurate (role-switching, scum cops, etc.) and the large number of people that could be reported in this way.

It seems that such a strategy might, in addition to making life difficult for scum cops, have the added benefit of turning part of the scum-hunting process into a logic puzzle which the town could solve, much like in Dethy-type games.

Cam

[shaft.ed]

I don't think this strategy is viable because I don't suspect our investigative roles will survive for a large portion of the game. Also D2 will only yield two investigations (possibly three with my power but from two people). Revealing will also out to the scum whether or not Adele has been given a power, I don't know if that's something we want out in the open or not. Personally I'd like to know because it gives me an extra target N2, but it may not be in the town's best inerest.

[Oman]

"Of the powers that can be sent to Adele, the investigative ones would be the most beneficial to the town."

Not if she's scum.

[Oman]

Also, mathcam's post doesn't seem relevant to me, as its a hypothetical that isn't well...relevant.

[quote="mathcam] much like in Dethy-type games. [/quote] They're also not fun.

[shaft.ed]

"Of the powers that can be sent to Adele, the investigative ones would be the most beneficial to the town."

Not if she's scum.

We have two scum groups at the moment. I think it would be in their interest to remove there killing adversaries.

[Thestatusquo]

Um...Unless you're counting the SK as a "scumgroup" then I'm missing something, shaft.d

[mathcam]

Also, mathcam's post doesn't seem relevant to me, as its a hypothetical that isn't well...relevant.

I don't understand why you think it's a hypothetical -- I'm proposing we think about implementing this strategy.

They're also not fun.

Well, that's because the game is almost

only

about that aspect -- to me, this would be just a significant source of additional information.

Cam

[Oman]

Cop A, B, C will give guilty/innocent.

We're talking about a tracker, a watcher, and whatever Adele uses. We're not getting comparable results unless the person the tracker tracks hits the person the watcher watches.

[davidangelsummers]

Right, most (if not all) people have a bigger brain then me in this game so
Im just going to try and help were I can. If you think im not giving enough please let me know and I will get myself replaced.
Claude ( Yseer ) If I had your role I would be looking at one of these 3 people
Here I my reasons why.
Mathcam: His role is dangerous in mafia hands the longer we go on the more dangerous it becomes. Even if he is town then I would like to know who was visiting him. If he is not their when you get their, we could have our SK
Adele: I would want to know exactly which powers she is getting and why. I think it would be helpful for judging her and her targeters alignments.
Omen: Similar reasons as Mathcams

Now you properly had all these in your head anyway but I wanted to put it out their as it might put scum\SK off

Which 3 people do you think I should be looking at and why?

[curiouskarmadog]

wow, have we moved to the directing each other stage?

and yes, SK is a scum group of it's own..that equals 2 scum groups

[davidangelsummers]

wow, have we moved to the directing each other stage?

and yes, SK is a scum group of it's own..that equals 2 scum groups

I was just saying what I would do, thier was no actual directing..
I gave my reason why and I needed to make sure I was on the same page as everyone so I asked a question. I dont want to screw up a complex game and go protect the worng person. Going it alone sounds like more of a scum thing to do CKD

[shaft.ed]

"Of the powers that can be sent to Adele, the investigative ones would be the most beneficial to the town."

Not if she's scum.

Oman, I find it very strange that you're doing a 180 on giving Adele powers. A couple pages ago you were discussing sending her your redirection ability, although it had previously been discussed at length that your powers in scum hands basically nullify investigation results and could make a town aligned doctor absolutely useless. Now you're getting hesitant about her being given Investigation powers, even though they can still be in the town's benefit if given to scum.

The only argument I have seen against this is that "scum can make up investigation results." The problem with scum running this gambit is that it will come down to two people telling the town that the other one is lying. Since it's highly unlikely two townies would run into this situation (ABR isn't here after all) it should be safe to assume that any time a player's account of who they targeted differs from a Tracker/Wathcer result either the player that was investigated or the player that did the investigating is lying and is scum. Thus the town will likely lynch one of the two said players because there should be a 50% chance that one or the other is scum. BCS town guesses right and lynches the scum right off losing noone, WCS town trades 1:1 townie for scum. Unless the town is in a precarious situation I don't see either result as bad for the town. I also find it interesting that the only way this situation won't work out as I've outlined above is if your power of redirection is thrown into the mix.

Um...Unless you're counting the SK as a "scumgroup" then I'm missing something, shaft.d

Yes I am counting Sylar as a scum "group." I think if the mafia investigate and find Sylar they will very likely bring it up the next day in order to lynch him. I don't think Sylar will use investigative powers even if given to him, but if he ONLY has them to use I would guess he will keep the results to himself and kill the scum at night as needed.

Claude ( Yseer ) If I had your role I would be looking at one of these 3 people
Here I my reasons why.
Mathcam: His role is dangerous in mafia hands the longer we go on the more dangerous it becomes. Even if he is town then I would like to know who was visiting him. If he is not their when you get their, we could have our SK
Adele: I would want to know exactly which powers she is getting and why. I think it would be helpful for judging her and her targeters alignments.
Omen: Similar reasons as Mathcams

Now you properly had all these in your head anyway but I wanted to put it out their as it might put scum\SK off

Which 3 people do you think I should be looking at and why?

David don't talk about being replaced unless you are actively hindering the game, any contribution is appreciated.

I wouldn't worry about Mathcam scum during the night. If he is mafia he will use his power during the day if he feels he is about to be lynched. If he is Sylar he won't use his power, the only advantage he has is he doesn't have to worry about being blown up.

[curiouskarmadog]

wow, have we moved to the directing each other stage?

and yes, SK is a scum group of it's own..that equals 2 scum groups

I was just saying what I would do, thier was no actual directing..
I gave my reason why and I needed to make sure I was on the same page as everyone so I asked a question. I dont want to screw up a complex game and go protect the worng person. Going it alone sounds like more of a scum thing to do CKD

LOL does it now? telling the scum what you are going to do before you do it is not the scum thing to do? nice SPIN. Answer me this DAS, why do you want to give scum information before tonight? Why do you want us to give the scum information before tonight?

vote davidangelsummers

what is wrong with making a judgement call tonight, THEN telling people what you did?

[Thestatusquo]

The thing is...Directing is only bad in a closed setup where the town is not able to plan what will happen because there are too many unknowns. In this case, we know the whole scenario, so we can plan for all contingencies. Town directing different roles is a good thing, individuals directing them is not. I think what we have here is a clear case of the town (Including yourself) trying to direct oman as to make him the most possible use to the town.

I think you're completely overreacting here.

FOS: Shaft'ed

[Thestatusquo]

Ooops. I mean

fps: CKD

Not shaft.ed

[Adele]

Adele: I would want to know exactly which powers she is getting and why. I think it would be helpful for judging her and her targeters alignments.

If you're looking to catch me out, remember that I'm a self-watcher, so I'd know that Claude was watching me, and know not to lie.
If you're looking to catch my targeters out, remember I'm a self-watcher, so I'd be able to perform that function.
If you're looking to force me to tell the truth, that makes sense - but remember that if I lied my targeters could reveal me.

Doesn't really make sense.

Mathcam: His role is dangerous in mafia hands the longer we go on the more dangerous it becomes. Even if he is town then I would like to know who was visiting him. If he is not their when you get their, we could have our SK

Why do you want to know who's visiting him? I don't get that.
Also, I

think

trackers and watchers can't catch the sk out. Leastways, that's how I've always run it.

Why does it matter who omen's targeted by? Surely if anyone were to target potentially dangerous people it should be matt, not claude (apologies for the character names).

Btw, I saw the last episode of series 1 last night! Does that mean that no-one here's behind, and Mr Bennet's first name may be safely spoken?
(that was a dumb secret anyway. I didn't even notice until they hung a lampshade on it and it was always unlikely to be of significance to the plot. Like, who cares?)

[Adele]

The thing is...Directing is only bad in a closed setup

Not necessarily true. If the scum knows the plan, they can plan around it - the most egregious example I can think of is the doc (who I support randomising their choice), but cops too - say the tracker says who he's going to track, and that person's a member of the mafia. He's unlikely to be the guy to perform the kill then, isn't he?

[curiouskarmadog]

Has the town unanimously agreed to this course of action? Is there any “direction” or plan for the town that the mafia can know about that wont hurt the town if they have said knowledge? I don’t think I am overreacting, but maybe the vote is premature.

Unvote, FoS DAS

I don’t like being directed to do anything and I don’t like providing information to the scum before I make a decision. Now, I will be the first in line to tell you what I did “last night” but don’t expect me to tell scum what I will do before I do it.

Currently I don’t have a problem with discussing roles and what is or isn’t a good idea, but I don’t think I want to sign up for being directed. Exception to this, is if the town collectively agrees that a certain action or inaction is best all around, but I haven’t seen this yet.

Town directing different roles is a good thing,

What do you have in mind?

[shaft.ed]

Town directing different roles is a good thing,

What do you have in mind?

Not to speak for TSQ here, but it seems as though the town discussing the possibilities and outcomes of certain targeting events might be a decent thing for certain abilities, and maybe narrowing down to a window of acceptable choices. In some instances its pretty obvious though. For example I have 3 viable choices, maybe a 4th, but it's pretty obvious who I should narrow my window of targets down to. I don't see a harm in talking about who makes a good target, but obviously saying "Tonight X will definitely target Y" is not a great idea for the town. I would have to say I do think talking about targets for the protective roles (Dave and CKD) is probably a touchy subject best left for them to figure out.

[shaft.ed]

Seol could we get a Zindaras prod please?

[Seol]

Prod sent.

[Thestatusquo]

Has the town unanimously agreed to this course of action? Is there any “direction” or plan for the town that the mafia can know about that wont hurt the town if they have said knowledge? I don’t think I am overreacting, but maybe the vote is premature.

Unvote, FoS DAS

I don’t like being directed to do anything and I don’t like providing information to the scum before I make a decision. Now, I will be the first in line to tell you what I did “last night” but don’t expect me to tell scum what I will do before I do it.

Currently I don’t have a problem with discussing roles and what is or isn’t a good idea, but I don’t think I want to sign up for being directed. Exception to this, is if the town collectively agrees that a certain action or inaction is best all around, but I haven’t seen this yet.

Town directing different roles is a good thing,

What do you have in mind?

I don't like this post for a couple of reasons.

1) I don't like how he half backed away from his guns and half didn't. He says he doesn't think he's overreacting, but removes the vote, as if trying to placate me.

2) Attacks me by saying "the town has not come to a unanimous decision when it was pretty plain that this is not at all what I was claiming. Remember, he attacked DAS for suggesting a course of action within a town discussion of what certain players should do. Then he sarcastically says thats "the town hasn't reached a consensus." well, how can the town reach a consensus if you're attacking everyone who chimes in on the issue? Hmm? This whole attack feels ungenuine. Especially with the begining of his third paragraph, where he tells us he "doesn't have a problem with discussing whats a good idea and what isn't for certain roles"

Im just going to try and help were I can. If you think im not giving enough please let me know and I will get myself replaced.
Claude ( Yseer ) If I had your role I would be looking at one of these 3 people
Here I my reasons why.
Mathcam: His role is dangerous in mafia hands the longer we go on the more dangerous it becomes. Even if he is town then I would like to know who was visiting him. If he is not their when you get their, we could have our SK
Adele: I would want to know exactly which powers she is getting and why. I think it would be helpful for judging her and her targeters alignments.
Omen: Similar reasons as Mathcams

Which 3 people do you think I should be looking at and why?

Whoops...Looks like that was all DAS was doing in the first place. So you've just admitted that you attacked him for something that you "have no problem with."

As to your question at the end, shaft.ed pretty much said everything I would, although I'd like to note I do not appreciate him speaking for me, and I have noted it as possible buddying up.

[Thestatusquo]

Oh, forgot

Vote: Curiouskarmadog

fos:shaft.ed, fos zoneface

Last FOS is to show zonyboy I haven't forgotten about him. I'd like a response to the post I gave to adele in clarification of my original questions, if you don't mind.

[Thestatusquo]

Post number is 174 for zoneaces reference.

[curiouskarmadog]

I simply said I dont mind the town having discussion, but I am not down with people directing people's night choice..are you?