Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[Io]

Scum can be paranoid. They have to worry about looking town. If anything town aren't paranoid because you don't need to fake looking town.

[-Grey-]

Scum can be paranoid. They have to worry about looking town. If anything town aren't paranoid because you don't need to fake looking town.

Scum can't be paranoid because scum has the answers. You are the informed minority, there is nothing to be paranoid about, so your team has to fake paranoia to look town.

[-Grey-]

Scum can be paranoid. They have to worry about looking town. If anything town aren't paranoid because you don't need to fake looking town.

I think this is a legit scumslip because town doesn't need to even think about looking town, let alone worry about how they can fake it.

Looking town is something that comes solely from a scum mindset.

Io basing their paranoia argument on looking town instead of reading scum is scum-driven.

VOTE: Io

[Io]

This argument is clearly going to go nowhere, but I have to disagree because they would just be paranoid for different reasons at most. Paranoid of being scum read and stuff but not paranoid of who is what alignment like town would be.

[Io]

That first line is basically word for word what I said.
I said "If anything town aren't paranoid because you don't need to fake looking town."
You said "town doesn't need to even think about looking town"

[-Grey-]

That first line is basically word for word what I said.
I said "If anything town aren't paranoid because you don't need to fake looking town."
You said "town doesn't need to even think about looking town"

Town doesn't even think about looking town when paranoia is the subject of discussion.

Paranoia is about the fear of scum. Period.

Only scum has appearances on their mind to be dredged into arguments about fear because only scum has to fear looking like scum.

Town would be arguing about how paranoia can be easily faked by scum, not by how scum needs to be paranoid of looking town.

[Io]

Paranoia is fear in general. Town and scum have different fears.
scum fear looking like scum, but town fear the unknown.

[-Grey-]

^ scum mindset

[culted]

which Culted also said that other people asked so I don't see why Culted would have felt the need to talk about it.

Wanted to know if there was anything in particular that stood out from kairals analysis that you might've interpreted differently or your mind gave its own spin to in other words, which gave you more benefit of the doubt than what other people asked you about which is why I asked.

[culted]

I'm not seeing Newman (you can probably guess why)

I really can't.

[I Am Innocent]

And 'hungry/happy' is actually 'hellooo' for HelloNewman....

His post 79 is fine, calling CK out for congratulating himself on a townslip is all well and good. The only issue is HelloNewman never actually interacts with anyone outside of CK and tunnels a bit that he's scum long after most of us have him as town. I don't mind contradictory viewpoints, but with an unpopular view comes a burden of proof, and I don't think Newman attempts that at all in his post. His reasoning CK is scum doesn't change at all (propped himself up on a townslip) even though he challenges CK multiple times through different wordings for the same thing. As I've said, I feel CK's play there was anti-town (aka looking at himself instead of others) but still NAI. Newman should've been tasked at building a case to actually make something happen rather than just stating he didn't like CK. At that point in time, nothing was happening with CK as a wagon so he either needed to drop it and refocus or force a real reason behind it.

So that's what I've got on Newman for the 4 posts so far.

Building a case? It's day 1. The post you're referring to was on page 6 (if I recall correctly). I gave you my thoughts/read on what I felt was the scummiest play so far. To me, CK was not playing a pro town game. From "hard claiming scum", to feeling the need to remind everyone that he "made a townslip", to his bizarre fight with MDS.

Speaking of which.....

I'm going to repeat this: nobody has confirmed that CK and I share alignment. Do not assume he's conftown when I die as town, or assume I'm conftown or confscum if he dies as town/scum. Like, pretty please.

No. You're mod-confirmed to share alignment. It's the only way a force replacement over playing against wincon makes ANY sense.

The second one of you dies, we'll know the date of the other. I just happen to believe you're both town.

Here's the thing. We KNOW that Cloud was replaced because he was playing against his wincon. We know this because the mod told us so. Now, I'm not saying that the mod "lied" when he later attempted to clarify. I believe that the mod accidentally said too much when announcing he was replacing Cloud, and was simply trying to cover for it and progress the game, hop get that would be the end of it.

So, Cloud was playing against his wincon. Which means that when he locked his vote onto MDS for the game, he was playing against his wincon. That is only accomplished in 1 way. If they are BOTH scum. If they are opposite alignments, then him voting her is not against wincon. If they were both town, then his voting her is not against wincon (because as town, Cloud would have no way of knowing that MDS was also town). However, if both are scum, that would punch the ticket.

I'm more than happy to lynch either MDS or Shadow today, preferably MDS. She is a strong voice that, as scum, could really dictate the narrative to the scum advantage.

Unvote Cloud/Shadow

Vote MDS

aka, let me find a horrid reason to move from my single vote on cloud/shadow to the already formed wagon of two MDS.

[I Am Innocent]

@Newman: You reali that if MDS flips town then you would most likely be next, right?

Why did you address this to him vs. other people that have voted MDS post-cloud force replace?

[I Am Innocent]

Well its blatantly obvious to me who scum is, ill give you a hint, its flubber. He doesnt take much interest in the game until he feels he can strike at an opportune time and argue his way into getting a player lynched. He also, like Massive, doesnt really explain much. He also is just pointing fingers at MDS and pushing the points she is making aside. Its sort of like when you argue with your parents and they say "That doesnt matter, listen to me, i am the parent" he is just deflecting what she says with minimal effort.

I'm sad that nobody wanted to vote this with me.

I'm sorry I fell behind or I would have been there the whole time with you on this.

Cult, Cloud/Shadow, MDS, Karail, Grey are pretty obv town at this point.

[I Am Innocent]

@mod

An actual votecount instead of just saying "VC" would be great. : )

Rather a newman lynch > massive at the moment. With massive he's got a track record of bonking heads with mds so the benefit of the doubt that he's just tunneled and omgusing is there and despite how bad the push is as a whole I can kinda see the where he's coming from on the 'protest too much' stuff if I squint.

And on the other hand, like grey said, newmans mds vote is just pure opportunism.

My other preferences are jin and io; more enthusiastic about jin. Also kinda don't think these two are scum together.

Wouldn't end the day without content from IAMI.

Pretty much sums up where I'm at at this point.

[I Am Innocent]

Newman's town but the scummiest of the group solely, not that he had other content, from the push that the only way Cloud could have been replaced is if he was Mafia hard bussing. His reason for the initial tunnel was also pretty trash with it just being that he claimed scum which no one should even take seriously. The other part of his scum read of Cloud that they were overly pushing the town slip was OK and a valid argument I think. The reason I think he's not scum pushing for 2 mislynches, as he's pushing to lynch both of you, is just because of how genuine he is in the push itself. He is stubborn, but not scum.

cult still think IO can't be scum with Newman?

[I Am Innocent]

crap, u said jin and io can't be scum together, my bad

[I Am Innocent]

I'm not seeing scum in massive.

Just clumsy town.

Can we lynch in {Newman, Io,

IAI

Jin} please?

Certainly.

unvote Grey
vote Newman

[Secret Agent Jin]

@Newman: You reali that if MDS flips town then you would most likely be next, right?

Why did you address this to him vs. other people that have voted MDS post-cloud force replace?

The post above that one 546 is the reason for that post.

[-Grey-]

I'm not seeing scum in massive.

Just clumsy town.

Can we lynch in {Newman, Io,

IAI

Jin} please?

Certainly.

unvote Grey
vote Newman

idk about Jin, but I'm down to lynch Newman and Io.

VOTE: Newman

[Secret Agent Jin]

@Newman: You reali that if MDS flips town then you would most likely be next, right?

Why did you address this to him vs. other people that have voted MDS post-cloud force replace?

The post above that one 544 is the reason for that post.

EBWOP

[I Am Innocent]

Just clumsy town.

Hey I never promised you a ballet.

I'm not seeing Newman (you can probably guess why) and not crazy about your company on that wagon. Talk to me about I Am Innocent? What has you putting him into the scum pile?

His attempt to push me with setup questions that don't come from a town mindset.

Get your setup questions crap out of here. Your obv town since page 12, but when I put out a scum list of 3 players and saw someone immediately attacks me for something I posted on page 4, yeah, I wondered if there was some chainsawing going on and I hit the mark on 2 scum and #3 was coming after me. Since I now feel your town, I obv don't think you had ulterior motives with that post.

[I Am Innocent]

@Newman: You reali that if MDS flips town then you would most likely be next, right?

Why did you address this to him vs. other people that have voted MDS post-cloud force replace?

The post above that one 544 is the reason for that post.

EBWOP

But why? It was the third vote on that wagon, what specifically did Newman do differently than the other two voters for MDS?

[I Am Innocent]

One other thing I'd care to have before this day ends is from Flubber

Flubber, who else do you suspect besides massive?

[Dierfire]

All right, I'm back and catching up now.

[Flubbernugget]

Prodge. Finals