New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[Shadow_step]

The shadow ISO between vedith suicide and his recent pop in

Spoiler:

Cerb where will you be voting today?

VOTE: kagami

I'm sure there is one scum in Kagami/Dunn

Kagami continues to not address my questions

Then there is this

Spoiler:

VOTE: Jester-Pair

VOTE: Shadow Pair

VOTE: Gamma pair

VOTE: jester pair

VOTE: gamma

VOTE: No Lynch

That's a lot of hollow votes, and they all happen to be on the safest wagons of the day. The Shadow vote in 1622 is especially interesting because Dunn said Kagami was allegedly townreading that pair at the time.

The town-shadow explanation there is that he finds Cerb's behavior odd and was poking at oddities without really thinking through the implications of them, which weighs against the probability that scum-shadow was poking at him in an effort to appear townish and did so in a very clumsy way. I don't think it's quite the smoking gun Parama is making it out to be, but meh.

That was a pretty bad sheeping on the Shadow case and pinged me right away. Funny thing is she had been calling him scummy for a while at that point but not actually voting him.

I still don't like jester's early play and I don't have any terribly fuzzy feeling about MDS either. I think scum-MDS would probably have held out for just a bit, but if there was already a pre-established pairing plan, that may have itself looked suspicious. Jester's "In fact I know you do, therefore my question should be: are you brave enough?" bit makes a show of saying "I'm totes going to be sorting you (because I am town)," which is counterproductive to any real attempt to establish a read. I'm treating 17 as a joke, but I find it strange that no one jumped on that. It's exactly the sort of low-hanging-fruit comment that usually attracts a scumread nibble. I'm also concerned that pretty much everyone had jester/mds as some level of scumread, but they didn't get any real attention at dance-start.

I kind of wish I'd noticed this part earlier because that's literally the same sort of nitpicking that made me scumread Jester in the beginning and mhsmith in the middle of Yesterday. FYI: I admitted pre-dance that Jester can read me like an open book. The "brave enough" was obviously a joke playing on that. We were scum together recently and he noticed I was scum before even looking at his role PM. Like literally 2 pages into the game.


Regardless, Kagami's reads started looking suspiciously similar to Dunn's at that point and I voiced my concern, which Dunn agreed with. Then, this happened:

@Whoever mentioned read-cloning: my internalization is that dunn's reads followed mine, with mismatches as to who was scummy but general agreement on which pairs were likely to include scum.

"Whoever mentioned my read-cloning" was Dunn. Hi.
Does anyone seriously buy that explanation? Dunn scumreads my pair, so does she. Dunn scumreads Shadow, so does she. Dunn scumreads Gamma, so does she. Dunn thinks Vedith is town, she changes her mind and says he's town after having called him scum. No, Dunn's reads definitely didn't follow Kagami's, it was the opposite.

Before accusing Kagami in the village thread, I asked Jester in private something like (paraphrasing)...

Mini:

Is Dunn easy to fool? I think Kagami's either pocketing him or blindly sheeping his reads (because she *is* transparently agreeing with him)

And he said no, Dunn's a great player as either alignment, so I figured she'd be the one sheeping Dunn and I was right.

By the way Kagami, what happened to this?

I would be shocked if gamma and shadow are both town, I'm just unsure who should leave first, since one pair being scum somewhat implies the other town. Part of me wants to channel our charming mod, who would probably just want to lynch them all and let the mod sort them out.

HS, I think it's jester-gamma-?, though I don't disagree that shadow pair deserves death regardless of alignment.

Gamma's town. What does that make of Shadow? I thought your townread on that pair depended on Gamma being scum, but you said you'd vote them out "regardless of alignment". Why are you no-lynching right now?

I think we should just flip a scummo and work from there.

VOTE: No Lynch

Like, feel free to vote me off, but when you see I'm town, this is the lady you need to start looking at. And that includes you, Dunn.

The dude literally told someone.

In the middle of thread what translated to "Go ahead and leave the dance coward"

If it was literally anyone else who has not been acting like a complete asshole you would've scumread it right?

But no. He plays the "too scummy to be scum" card. And you're like "Shaddddddowwwww-samaaaaaa please shadddddddowwww-sama why are you such a beacon of innocence please say more nice words to me in the PT"

SAD's posts are just sad misreps.

Notice how SAD has completely ignored HS and Parama's cry outs for a lynch/flip.

I make a single line about asking vedith to leave(he was dead set on doing it anyway). I was confident of a Gamma scum slip ,and hell breaks loose.

I'm not no lynching because I'm certain there is scum in kagami/dunn

That's to Cerb who is pro NL.

Oh yes, of course, my entire case is that shadow scumslipped, that's all it is, and nothing more.
Nice misrep!

What else is there to it?

alright let's stop the misrep and see where my reads actually are huh?

lock town:
{arthur, parama}

probably town:
{smith, pie, scout, kagami}

unsure:
{dunn, cerb, mds}

scummy scum:
{shadow, mariar, jester}

that leaves a whole six slots to find scum in, and only 4 of them are paired.
are you going to rethink your stance now that you have more detailed information, or do you think 2735 is still a valid post with valid points?

Have you taken issue with one of your lock town voting the other lock town?

That's over the span of nearly four full days. "But weekend"

Its actually a town tell for me if anything. When my top scum read flips town I really get annoyed with myself and just kind of lose motivation for a bit. But w/e ofc I'm scum who's hiding.

[mhsmith0]

Do you think you're being wagoned for no good reason?

[Shadow_step]

I want reasons why you scum read me. NOW

[mhsmith0]

Answer question first.

[mhsmith0]

No answer? Fine then I'll go first

1) your activity dropped off a cliff post vedith suicide (before then it was your pair vs his)
2) wolfy pop in
3) you seeming to be in anti spew under pressure

There's also something else that I want your answer on first before I discuss.

[Shadow_step]

You guys might get lucky if Maria is scum but I highly doubt that. Unless she went "fuck this shit and didn't listen to her buddies and decided to dance with me anyway"
If you look at it she wasn't going to have a great survival chance with Sick either. But then why not just dance with Dunn. Unless they both are scum but then why would Dunn ask Maria first. For wifom?

Lol as I finished typing this I think Maria being scum is highly improbable.

[Shadow_step]

No answer? Fine then I'll go first

1) your activity dropped off a cliff post vedith suicide (before then it was your pair vs his)
2) wolfy pop in
3) you seeming to be in anti spew under pressure

There's also something else that I want your answer on first before I discuss.

This happened after you voted me, how can this be a reason to vote me because you think I'm scum?

[mhsmith0]

Also lynching your pair is a decent world building lynch given how heavy your pressure was early game (when pairs were being made), as I feel like knowing your/Maria's alignment ought to throw propels interactioms w you two intombetter relief.

[mhsmith0]

Still not sold on Maria/Shadow, though Shadow seems to have disappeared when the heat moved on other pairs.

Wow it's almost like...

Shadow-maria is a cowbeaten to death already

I really am having a hard time understanding why is is relevant at all.

Like because he was suspected early on, managed to dodge being lynched by acting aggressive, insulting people, and playing the "too scummy to be scum" card, and his wagon lost steam, he automatically became town?

As I said before none of what he has done changes his original alignment. The only thing that happened is he made a big raging scene and now went back to lurking when he feels he's no longer in the ~danger~ zone of being lynched.

Like he's happy just sitting by right now while town continues to focus on other stuff. He's already done his job of dodging his lynch and AtEing to Maria in his PT. Not like he has to bother himself with solving the game or anything, because, yknow...

i will admit that the way shadow has basically vanished after the pressure disappeared from him is really bothersome

VOTE: shadow-maria
Choo choo

Oh right this happened. Almost like I was responding to the posts about you immediately before.

[mhsmith0]

It's almost as if he's the scummiest player in the game!

Lol missed one

[mhsmith0]

Do you think you're being wagoned for no good reason?

[Shadow_step]

They are conf biased it doesn't matter what I do they'll find a scum motivation behind it.

[mhsmith0]

So you think you're being wagoned for no good reason. Does this make you upset or are you just Ike "lol whatever these people are dumb"?

[Shadow_step]

I'd be upset if I had a strong PR or something. I don't so these people are just dumb.

Case on me is "alleged scum slip" it isn't and I don't slip as scum anyway. "Arrogant" that's NAI for me. "Assholish" like seriously?
Then there is the conf bias

[Shadow_step]

Shadow over and out. Better get all 3 scum on my wagon if you want to lynch ms cause I'm not self voting or leaving.

[mhsmith0]

So then you're being wagoned for no good reason and you're not upset about it?

That's really interesting since that's not what you told me when we hydrad together. It's private so I can't link but you SPECIFICALLY said that you get pissed when you get wagoned for no good reason (and it wasn't presented in a "only if I have a pr" manner).

So, if that is in fact how you react to these situations, why isn't that your reaction here?

[MiniDeathStar]

UNVOTE: Shadow

I don't think Shadow is the scum. I recognise a lot of my own attitude in how he behaves.

[MiniDeathStar]

VOTE: Kagami

This lady should stop lurking in the Shadows and come back on the scene.

[Shadow_step]

Pissed and upset are different things
You didn't get that I was pissed for being scum read by my reactions to being voted, really?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'd be upset if I had a strong PR or something. I don't so these people are just dumb.

Case on me is "alleged scum slip" it isn't and I don't slip as scum anyway. "Arrogant" that's NAI for me. "Assholish" like seriously?
Then there is the conf bias

Oh my. For someone who cares so much about alleged misreps, you sure just misrepped like the whole suspicion on you.

As I previously said, if you're really "arrogant", then you would be "arrogantly" putting in more effort everywhere, aggressively pushing stuff instead of coasting hardcore. It's not that you're arrogant, it's that it looks like you're faking arrogance/assholishness/aggressiveness.

Also, it's not really "conf bias" as much as you can't override what you have done, and it doesn't change your alignment in the game. I've seen wayyyy too many people pull the too scummy to be scum card and coast off of that. Especially back before I took hiatus, I also used to pay/spec games on another forum where we played all/large majority of our games alted. Experienced players faked being noobs/naive/too scummy etc with ease and got written off for it. Which is exactly what I get the feeling you're doing here.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: mhsmith0
Will post more later but this is a bit obvious

[Shadow_step]

Bla Bla Bla

@SAD^

[mhsmith0]

You're representing that you're not angry, more like "lol these people are stupid". Am I misreading you?

Not flipping scum. Vote Kagami/Dunn

Not angry

No I've said a million times I want a shadow pair flip so I can work from there.

If he flips scum I think much less likely you're scum as the competing wagon.

What happens when I flip town?
Will you accept you are horrible at mafia if you are town?

Nit really angry. More mocking/contemptuous (or attempting to broadcast it).

I haven't read any of the last 6-7 pages and I've no idea what the VC is. I just checked this page briefly and saw MDS voting me which is a bad vote.

Nit angry.

Will look back at earlier stuff.

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: mhsmith0
Will post more later but this is a bit obvious

VI or wolf. Hard to tell...

[Shadow_step]

Those are not initial reactions. Check my day 1 reactions. I've already said no matter what I do they'll scum read me so there is no point wasting my energy