Mini Normal 1854: Game Over

[TwoFace]

"I agree with this"
Changes vote.

You don't lynch a claimed pr day 1 ever

[TwoFace]

We're not fucking lynching either of them today.

Vote someone we actually might be able to lynch for once!

not voting a claimed PR
Creeps and Gamma are town reads

who should I vote for exactly?

not going to sacrifice my principles if I don't absolutely have to.

[TwoFace]

I do.
It's bullshit and he's scum.

good for you.

it's not worth the gamble for me, if we are wrong we have made mafia's job easier.

[TwoFace]

This game theory is flawed, as has been pointed out previously.

it's not theory imo, it has been more correct than incorrect for me.

[TwoFace]

Lynch Fritz TwoFace and I might not lynch you tomorrow.

that would mean i would have to care if i got lynched right? I don't so do what you gotta do homie

[TwoFace]

Otherwise scum get to be scummy and then go "Not it! PR!"

they do that anyway

but sometimes people play like shit, especially when they are a PR. Just look at the masons this game. both have played like shit. people think since they are a PR they can't actually be helpful like they normally would because it would put too much attention on them. it's crap logic yet I see it all the time.

[TwoFace]

But this means you give them a free pass to do so, anytime, all the time. That's the problem I have with it.

And if you say "oh well you played badly but I won't lynch you" then the issue of bad play as PRs will never end. You're actually feeding it unintentionally.

ok whatever. You have your opinions on how to do things, I have mine.

[TwoFace]

TeoFace or Gamma tomorrow.

if fitz ends up getting lynched and flips scum, you're getting lynched tomorrow

[TwoFace]

TeoFace or Gamma tomorrow.

ToeFace*

Misspelling names is rude Math!

you spelled my name wrong also

[TwoFace]

but you make the most sense as the scum partner, I called that shit ages ago

fitz/tvd (you)/hiraki

[TwoFace]

nope, i'm not scum and you're not going to bully me in to changing my beliefs. Something I do in every game.

if I have to get lynched tomorrow, so be it but once i flip town lynch the fuck out of math and hiraki

[TwoFace]

you can like people, but if fitz is scum, math is confirmed partner

[TwoFace]

Only if you can't read italics. But you will eventually.

I can read italics just fine, your late jump on the fitz wagon doesn't change anything. if fitz is scum, you are confirmed partner.

[TwoFace]

No not for the late vote. I've been calling the 3 of them scum buddies before math even replaced in. I even said there was an obvious connection between him/hiraki/tvd (math) that only made sense if they were masons which they aren't so the only thing that makes sense is scum buddies.

Fitz coming to tvd' defense earlier and casting shade on 2 separate people for suspecting tvd.

[TwoFace]

One of the people fitz cast shade on just happened to be a mason btw

[TwoFace]

Oh fitz is already hammered? Had no idea. Why am I wasting my time here.

See y'all day 2

[TwoFace]

If you believed this you wouldn't have invited Fitz. Scum can have PRs you know. You are acting as if you know he will flip scum and the only way you would know is if you are scum with him.

I didn't invite fitz anywhere.

[TwoFace]

I unvoted fitz because I have a never waivering opinion that you don't lynch claimed PRs day 1. Deal with it chump.

[TwoFace]

no

[TwoFace]

if anything it makes it stronger

[TwoFace]

Why?

[TwoFace]

Math again proving he's either scum or really bad player

[TwoFace]

TeoFace or Gamma tomorrow.

if fitz ends up getting lynched and flips scum, you're getting lynched tomorrow

No, don't say that.

Why?

[TwoFace]

look - this is our first interaction ever in a game and if you HONESTLY think you've figured out the game on day one, then I hope you learn a lot from this game

do I think i am 100% right? no absolutely not BUT if fitz is scum, my scum team makes perfect sense given the interactions.

I'll concede maybe I am wrong about you but the way fitz was soft defending tvd really strikes me as odd

[TwoFace]

Because if fitz flips scum Math is most likely town.

why because of the hammer?

[TwoFace]

Well I certainly wasn't expecting that. Have to reevaluate things now. Sucks I wasn't able to be on the wagon. Since it was basically my wagon.

[TwoFace]

I share the same stance on claimed PRs Day 1 as TF does so it would be very hypocritical for me to scum read for that him but, it was very odd there the end of Day 1 where he just adamantly refused to lynch Fitz after how hard he pushed him. I understand people have beliefs and all but it's a little concerning how easy TF was willing to give up that lynch. Might be scum who tried a last effort attempt to hop off of a buddy.

[TwoFace]

Sorry if this is dumb but isn't the point of masons to do things ie discuss and iron out reads with someone you know you can trust? I'd have thought they'd come back with a joint reads post

Sometimes you don't agree with the other mason

[TwoFace]

Can somebody look at the hiraki/fitz interactions. I'm trying not to be so tunneled so I want somebody else to see if it's buddyish

[TwoFace]

I'm starting to think gamma could be scum also. He was easy to hop off fitz onto creeps. Fitz put a lot of reasons out for gamma, more so for me but pushed me and only went to gamma much later when it was still obvious gamma wasn't getting lynched.

Fitz/gamma/hiraki. Does this make sense?

[TwoFace]

I get the votes on you though. You've done very little this game.

[TwoFace]

quite honestly that's why i can't join the havingfitz wagon because these and other reasons sound v fishy and I'm like I have good reasons but I don't really believe in them and no one else does either so...?

for now

VOTE: hiraki

[TwoFace]

See I want to get out of tunnel mode but you go and post shit like that. That's not a townie response imo. That's a "downplay and discredit" tf response. to change my mind somebody has to post something that's good enough to make me look elsewhere. It'll probably not be til Tuesday before I can sit down and really comb the game looking for buddies but for now I'm good here.

[TwoFace]

Math was calling me scum plus we had 2 masons. No chance math protected me

[TwoFace]

You're kidding right?

[TwoFace]

TwoFace is confirm town for me and Math is a smart enough player to see that as well. Scum more than likely attacked TwoFace and Math protected there.

There is an almost 0% chance this happened. Have you read Math's posts? They were calling him and Gamma the scumteam. If they protected TwoFace, we're gonna have to have a long talk in Post game about crumbling protections properly.

I tend to agree with this. Math was blinded by stupidity. He either protected a mason and was killed or they just outright killed him cause they knew he was a pr.

I'd like to think scum tried to kill me though.

[TwoFace]

I tend to agree with this. Math was blinded by stupidity. He either protected a mason and was killed or they just outright killed him cause they knew he was a pr.

I'd like to think scum tried to kill me though.

I suggest you read Math's previous games.
He looks into each game during the night and reviews players and actions from the flip result.

Not going to do that. It doesn't matter at this point

[TwoFace]

Not going to do that. It doesn't matter at this point

Of course it matters who was the NK...
It's helps prevent a shit push from town later.

it's impossible to know for sure though. we can't even make a real educated guess

[TwoFace]

Intent to hammer

Too soon imo.

[TwoFace]

Yeah I don't fully believe it but I honestly don't see scum pulling out that kind of claim with one man down.

[TwoFace]

I also don't believe Frank's claim at all but I'm too new to know if it's likely there's a second bg so for now hiraki is a better lynch.

I did look up backup roles in past games and while not common I found a game with a bg and backup bg.

[TwoFace]

Which makes sense for balance since bodyguard + Masons is too weak but other things are mostly too strong. Don't think Frank has the experience to come up with that and doubt he was putting in work Wiki-diving to come up with it.

Bg with 2 masons isn't that weak. I think the game with uzi and I, we had 2 masons and a watcher with a hated. (Thinking that's right. Uzi? Isn't that the game)

[TwoFace]

Hiraki/aristo/vedith/deer is who I want to look closer at.

[TwoFace]

True so the bg with a backup could be balanced. I think that's all.

Unless there's a 3rd mason. Then all that goes out the window

[TwoFace]

Not entirely sold.

He could always lie about who he protected during the night in order to avoid suspicion when questioned about why he didn't die.

He should only be protecting a mason. I doubt scum has a RB cause they still
Kill somebody. So claiming blocked wouldn't be believable to me.

If a bg claim is alive in lylo/mylo that's scum

[TwoFace]

Hello all, summary?

Who did you track last night?

[TwoFace]

Ok you're a tough guy.

We lynched scum (well I found scum and got other people to lynch him for me)

We have some masons. A dead BG and a claimed backup BG

That's you're summary

I'd appreciate it if you could catch up as soon as possible.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: Creeps
Hiraki is town.

Not with posts like that he's not

[TwoFace]

I'm not being arrogant actually.

[TwoFace]

so based on my memory, when I was trying to get fitz lynched Aristo and Gamma hopped on board but hopped off later for the creeps wagon

fitz and hiraki were tied with 3 votes and creeps had 2

havingfitz (3):

TwoFace

, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes
Hiraki (3):

Lil Uzi Vert, Nacho

, Eric Rasputin
Creeps20 (2): ScumDeersAreVeryTasty, Hiraki

The next wagons were hiraki and creeps at 4

Creeps20 (4): ScumDeersAreVeryTasty, Hiraki, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald
Hiraki (4):

Lil Uzi Vert, MisaTange

, Eric Rasputin,

TwoFace

fast forward we have

Creeps20 (5): ScumDeersAreVeryTasty, Hiraki, Aristophanes,

MathBlade

, Gamma Emerald
Hiraki (3):

Lil Uzi Vert, MisaTange, TwoFace

really getting the vibe that Creeps is the counter to hiraki.

here is the final lynch on scum

havingfitz (7):

Nachomamma8

, Gamma Emerald, Joshz,

Lil Uzi Vert

, Aristophanes, Vedith,

MathBlade

(

twoface

was off the wagon but on it in spirit)
Creeps20 (3): ScumDeersAreVeryTasty, Hiraki, FrankJaeger


Josh is eric - i feel he is town, plus his spot on the wagon looks ok to me
Aristo - very possible is scum. hasn't really done much. his vote was very weak on fitz and he tried to imply I was scum with fitz for not being on the wagon
vedith - had some town reads on him early because he was pushing fitz, but then later joined fitz and voted gamma which was a terrible vote


Today I want to lynch hiraki or aristo but would compromise on vedith

[TwoFace]

you're vote on him day 1 was terrible, plus fitz was voting him for terrible reasons.

[TwoFace]

He just calls anyone disagreeing with him as scum.
Look at his list of 4 scum... "Only scum vote me" attitude.

I think this was mentioned day 1 but feels like it should be said again, this was not what fitz did in his reads list like not even remotely accurate.

[TwoFace]

fitz seemed to be discrediting people voting masons, nobody was coming after fitz at that point in the game

[TwoFace]

you hate it when people call themselves town?

We actually have proof of it though. Fitz flipped scum

[TwoFace]

Vote Creeps, Ari!

Creeps is pretty much off the table today given he was the counter to fitz/hiraki

Smart play is lynch hiraki today

[TwoFace]

cause he makes most sense to me as scum buddy with fitz

[TwoFace]

plus his posts today are very scummy

[TwoFace]

Yes Fitz flipped scum, but how did this conftown you?

[TwoFace]

Which ones? In what way?

Toy mention him a lot as being scum, but never actually say why. Heck, you only quite him once and have no actual interactions with him today. Tbqh your read and push on him are unexplained and look Hella weak.

actually I mention 2 of his posts and call them both scummy

1220 is me calling his 1219 bad. why is it scummy? read it it's self explanatory. It's a garbage post, one I don't see town making. Discrediting frank, and his response to me. neither of those look town

1309 is me referring to his 1304 - again, it's self explanatory. It's a post i don't see town making. -Again discredits frank and his reaction to uzi is also not very good. neither of those look town

I also explained that creeps is the counter to hiraki and the hiraki/fitz interactions look very much like scum buddies

but then again you're voting creeps which is most likely a mislynch and your reasons for sr'ing him are weaker than mine so excuse me if I don't climb aboard that wagon.

[TwoFace]

If this and "because I started/pushed his wagon" are all you have, I think you need to redefine your definition of conftown.

nope my definition is fine. but there is a very good chance you could be scum with fitz so I see why you would need to try and cast shade on me

[TwoFace]

@TwoFace - Tell me what your opinion is of all the interaction between Creeps and Fritz day 1

creeps was basically the counter to hiraki/fitz so looking at that and those on the wagon, creeps is off the table for me today.

creeps was a PL day 1, and still feels like one today especially given who flipped.


if you think I am missing something, make a good case but until i see something that doesn't read like a policy lynch i'm sticking with my gut. it's working well for me right now

[TwoFace]

i'm not going to waste my time looking at their interactions right now, and I don't really remember them.

[TwoFace]

If I think creeps is town already, and I think the VCA points to confirming creeps is probably town. Why would I look into it further? why not look into people I am scum reading?

[TwoFace]

So help me out vedith. If the interactions between fitz/creeps looked bad to you, why not start pushing creeps? You basically go after frank for suggesting you could be scum which doesn't really make me trust your reads.

If scum bussed i would bet vedith but nothing to back that up currently

I had him as scum all day yesterday.
This post just reads as "Lets push else where to divert attention from me not voting there."

VOTE: Frank
GTFO.

TwoFace is confirm town for me and Math is a smart enough player to see that as well. Scum more than likely attacked TwoFace and Math protected there.

VOTE: Creeps
Hiraki is town.

If you see some sort of connection, why not just do the leg work for us?

[TwoFace]

I also really need you to explain this town read on hiraki at some point also.

[TwoFace]

I also really need you to explain this town read on hiraki at some point also.

I can't for reasons... Take that as you like but I can answer at a later date.

Nope. Only "reasons" you could possibly have is pr clear which given what's been claimed isn't possible imo so I'm going to need you to explain how his interactions with fitz aren't scummy and creep the counter wagon to both of them is.

[TwoFace]

If I think creeps is town already, and I think the VCA points to confirming creeps is probably town. Why would I look into it further? why not look into people I am scum reading?

Because then you get tunneled vision and your reads never progress.
How do I mafia?

If this was late game maybe you have a point it's day 2 after a scum flip and info suggests creeps was the hard mislynch. What happened after? Fitz got lynched.

If it really is creeps/fitz, awesome but the resistance to hiraki suggests it's more likely hiraki/fitz

[TwoFace]

But hey. I'm a reasonable man.

Somebody show me how fitz/creeps makes more sense than fitz/hiraki and I'll read it over.

[TwoFace]

Or I should say I'm trying to be a reasonable man. Watching people tunnel in others makes me want to stop.

That's why I asked others to look into fitz/hiraki for me to see if I have valid points or not. Nobody did though

Actually I want aristo to show his work. He's done very little explaining.

Aristo - case on why creeps/fitz makes sense as scum team. Factoring in day 1 votes on fitz and hiraki

[TwoFace]

It doesnt

Fitz/vedith does though

I can that also.

[TwoFace]

I can't for reasons... Take that as you like but I can answer at a later date.
Le End

[TwoFace]

I can't for reasons... Take that as you like but I can answer at a later date.
Le End

Difference is mine is because of site rules... Dumbass

Yeah sorry town read off meta in general is bad. From an ongoing is terrible

[TwoFace]

Yeah sorry town read off meta in general is bad. From an ongoing is terrible

It's not what you're thinking, but I'm not talking about it any further from here.
Lynching Hiraki is stupid and the only case on him is you didn't like his posting or some shit.

Gee how else do you find scum if by not examining their posts?

I'm still waiting for you to do what I asked.

[TwoFace]

I'm still waiting for you to do what I asked

Like I'm waiting for you to do as I asked?
2 way Street.

Pretty sure I've responded to all your requests

[TwoFace]

About me: I'm a tortoise not a hare. That means don't rush me. If you say things about me that's not true I will get defensive about it. If I'm attacking you, arguing with me isn't going to work.

4. If people want me to stop tunneling they need to provide me with a better alternative with good reasoning.

5. I hate lazy/lurking players.

I'm still waiting for somebody to do the bolded.

[TwoFace]

Btw I skimmed this interactions you wanted me to. They barely interacted so what the hell am I supposed to look at? Hiraki/fitz interactions were scummier imo. After I destroyed fitz hiraki tried to come to fitz' defense. Stalled with the defense and eventually posted something that was very weird. I remember thinking "this is what I was waiting for?"

And the fact you're still not factoring in that creeps was the easiest of all the day 1 wagons means he's probably town. I feel if you were town you'd see that already

[TwoFace]

Pretty sure I've responded to all your requests

Responding and doing it are 2 different things.

you're probably scum so I'm done with you.

Literally nothing points to fitz/creeps scum team yet you keep saying there is and refuse to explain it.

Everything points to a fitz/hiraki team and you disagree and refuse to explain it.

Pretty sure the "against site rules" thing is code for you're scum together

You can stop talking to me now. You refuse to explain after being asked over and over again. That's not townie play.

[TwoFace]

Why would it hurt him though?

[TwoFace]

Im ok with that aj vote. He's got this anger tone in his posts that doesn't make sense to me. I think your reason for not suspecting vedith is meh

[TwoFace]

Hiraki's return is scummy AF
VOTE: Hiraki

Agreed

[TwoFace]

Cool - this is enough for me to put a vote on but his next post gives more substantial evidence.

Like wtf is this shit?

[TwoFace]

THIS IS BLANTANT MISREPRESENTATION! WHAT THE FUCK?

No it's not cause the part I quoted is the part I have a problem with. I can't misrep you if all I did was quote you

[TwoFace]

There's zero chance I'm voting anyone else at this point. I don't think hiraki is town but if he is good riddance. He's shown absolutely no town minded thinking/attitude this entire day phase.

These all caps is just fake emotional out bursts imo.

The other parts don't matter. I don't care if you have more evidence.(which you didn't really) The point is you said that one part was vote worthy alone and it isn't Imo. I don't see how anyone with a town role pm would think what you've said.

[TwoFace]

I mean, if Vedith is such a big scumread, wouldn't be hard for you to explain why he's scum, no?

Vedith refuses to explain his creeps town read. What's your thought on that?

[TwoFace]

Scum read not town read

[TwoFace]

Vedith refuses to explain his creeps town read. What's your thought on that?

Refuses?
This is discrediting, show where I out right refuse to do so.

That isn't discrediting. It's the truth.

You've been asked to explain

You haven't explained.

That's refusal. You don't have to actually say the word.

[TwoFace]

Can somebody hammer hiraki now?

[TwoFace]

Pretty sure I've responded to all your requests

Responding and doing it are 2 different things.

Btw I did what you asked and went through the interactions and provided my response. Yet you still refuse to explain.

So in you're next post please explain this connection that I'm apparently missing.

Btw. Don't call me stupid again.

[TwoFace]

I just really don't get it.
I ask you to look at the interaction between Creeps and Fritz and you say no, then say I am refusing to give you reasons to why he is scum even though I was trying to discuss over it...

You really are something.

GTFO.

I already did this dude. Learn to fucking read

[TwoFace]

Btw I skimmed this interactions you wanted me to. They barely interacted so what the hell am I supposed to look at? Hiraki/fitz interactions were scummier imo. After I destroyed fitz hiraki tried to come to fitz' defense. Stalled with the defense and eventually posted something that was very weird. I remember thinking "this is what I was waiting for?"

And the fact you're still not factoring in that creeps was the easiest of all the day 1 wagons means he's probably town. I feel if you were town you'd see that already

Now kindly take your insults and fuck off.

After hiraki flips scum you're next

[TwoFace]

I already did this dude. Learn to fucking read

What post did you explain your opinion about Fritz/Creeps interaction on day 1 then?

1373

[TwoFace]

Love when the game gets solved day 2

[TwoFace]

>>> says I didn't respond today him so he won't respond to me
>>>ignores my response to him
>>> doesn't respond to my request
>>> acts like I didn't respond to him
>>>has the audacity to call me stupid.

Gtfoh. If you're town never play with me again. But you're probably not town so...

[TwoFace]

Sorry you can eat shit and hit the bricks. I'm not responding to you anymore

[TwoFace]

There is no reason for Hiraki to be hammered yet.

I disagree but whatever

[TwoFace]

@Vedith:

What's stopping Creeps and Hiraki from being partners?

maybe you and your mason buddy can convince vedith to use game related reasons to explain his town read.


town reading somebody for "I can't explain it because of reasons that are against site rules" imo is also against site rules

[TwoFace]

Scum can't always just jump on the counter wagon lmao

It looks bad on then if they just vote opportunistic ally. Fitz had already defended creeps so switching his vote to someone he saw as townie would've got him lynched faster. I don't think it necessarily means creeps CAN'T be his partner but he probably isn't

agree with this

[TwoFace]

dude please stop insulting me and my play

@mod - vedith has basically admitted to using outside influences in this game which is a site rule violation. what's the best way to handle this situation?

[TwoFace]

You linked his posts referencing creeps last page. I don't think you could realistically pull off a vote on someone you've town read so visibly just because they're a counter wagon. Much more viable to whiteknight creeps while avoiding being lynched.

To use your own argument, however: why didn't he just vote hiraki?

historically people who join the counter wagon get flamed hard. fitz is smart enough to know that so if creeps is town like I suspect, there is no way he would join that wagon.

There is a chance that fitz/creeps/hiraki is the team, but given how day 1 played out I really don't see creeps being the last scum.

I know why he didn't vote hiraki

[TwoFace]

Why hiraki makes sense as scum with fitz. The biggest red flags is at least twice gives the indication that he could/would vote fitz and never does. Even when he could put fitz to L-3, chooses to go to creeps especially after making a big post that concludes with him scum reading fitz

Spoiler:

havingfitz im v disappointed that you could give eric a scum lean

i thought you would agree with my mindset

I just quoted this one because the interaction is very weird. If scum doesn't have day talk this could be hiraki telling fitz that his scum read on eric makes him look bad.

im considering it, i haven't been 100% satisfied with the content i've been receiving but I also have a personal bias at havingfitz due to the margins he puts in every post (no offense)

@gamma - i don't think it's as bad as every other person is saying here but you could've waited, maybe have a breadcrumb ready in the early early game? could be as simple as capitalization in first few posts - no one has enough time to look for those.

This was his response to me when I tried to get hiraki to vote fitz. His reason for not wanting to seems over explained to me, and it doesn't even make any sense.

and all he's done really is dismiss reasons for why people are scum reading Eric.

i've actually quite consistently said that I understand why people say he's scum but I don't agree with those reasons - that's dismissing? you're not getting a wagon on me based on these reasons - try a little harder next time?

I need to examine the SDAVT v/s TwoFace but from slight glances it looks town vs town - if anything my thumb is on SDAVT being scum but that's not anything I would put any money on.

Hiraki and tvd both voted masons yet they don't get shade cast on them but everyone else does?

quite honestly that's why i can't join the havingfitz wagon because these and other reasons sound v fishy and I'm like I have good reasons but I don't really believe in them and no one else does either so...?

I can't join the fitz wagon because this plus other reasons sounds fishy? it was this that actually revealed himself as scum, yet he doesn't want to join still. very obvious connection here

I eagerly await for your anayasis about these fishy reasons. Surely you can explain which ones you find fishy and why.

I'm not sure what you mean by that last sentence. What are you referring to exactly and who are these others that don't believe in whatever it is.

i will write a large post and explain - don't doubt me yet

Says he is going to write a big post, kind of delays doing it though. Makes it seem like he disagrees with a lot of the stuff against him.

I eagerly await for your anayasis about these fishy reasons. Surely you can explain which ones you find fishy and why.

Woo, finally here!

I think the best way to start this is by examining everyone on the current wagon and seeing why they voted and how I agree/disagree.

Currently we have TwoFace, Gamma, and Ari on the wagon:

1) TwoFace: probably the most solid person on the wagon - im only going to go over the stuff i disagree with:

So fitz is probably scum. Too many non ai or non truths being twisted into appearing bad. No way an experienced town player comes to this conclusion.

This is very presumptive but I understand where you're coming from. would've loved to see you wait for his response tho.

- I'm not saying your naked vote on Misa is bad...I'm saying you voting a mason is bad. Which I can say in my post with the hindsight now that you were voting town. If I didn't assume LUV and Misa were telling the truth I wouldn't have considered you vote negatively.

this is bad - ill give you that much but it's not lynch worthy, looks more like a lapse in logic and judgment than anything. if he continues this sort of behavior, then we have problems.

IMO talking about the statistical odds of hitting scum in a group of four players on P1 of D1 is completely worthless. And going on and on about it serves absolutely no value and just gives the impression of trying. If it's not doing that then it has no place in the game...therefore is not progressing the game at all...and I find that counterproductive...aka suspect.

very fair

- In hindsight voting town (mason Misa) is bad...yes? Voting town in bad...yes? We have more information at our disposal following the mason claims so that colors your vote on Misa negatively. Comprehend?

However, there is nothing bad about it on day 1. This is voting analysis stuff that you're trying to shove in on Day 1. Like I said before, I agree that this is bad. It's really really not great but I don't think it's scummy. Just a lapse in judgment.

If TwoFace has only been on town wagons, that's something to look at - maybe a LYLO i have no clue vote.

To be fair, this throws everything I have said above into question but I am willing to wait for a response about this whole thing.

I will say I find it funny that I am 1) being accused/voted (by those I cast suspicion towards btw) of suspecting everyone who suspected/voted for a mason while at the same time 2) being criticized for town reading two of the players who voted/suspected a mason. Point 2 negates point 1. Which no one seems to even notice. And I readily admitted I suspected both LUV and Misa....but I know I am not scum.

I am not suspecting players of being scum solely based on the fact they suspected/voted a mason. But now that we have the mason claims that is perfectly valid information to consider.

That covers most of it though so let's move on.

2)Gamma: I don't really think he's town anyway but let's see what he has to say

Havingfitz: pushing the masons before they claim is NAI. If you wanted to attack someone for doubting the claim then that would make more sense.

Same reason almost verbatim, just a little crude.

HF is pushing stuff that is not actually scummy.

Weeuuueeeuuueeuuueuuuu

KK this is where stuff gets a little weird for me. Again, not disputing the fact that HF's stuff doesn't have a hint of scum taint but I don't really believe that. He gave a slew of other reasons, valid or not. I'm not really concerned about them because, as you will see, I have my own reasons.

I would be OK with anyone saying this but anyone who has thought about voting Eric (like Gamma has done) when Eric does literally the same things from an objective viewpoint. Except, Gamma only shows intent to vote Eric but doesn't do it. There's even a flip-flop on Eric between 185 and 384. Not enough for anyone to question it but there's certainly uncertainty that Gamma is town-reading Eric. In fact, if anything, there's a clear slideline provision there. But the fact that he's going to OK Havingfitz for some of the same things that Eric has literally done puts me at an unease.

3) Ari:

I mean like "You voted a Mason before they claimed! You must be scum!" doesn't even make any fucking sense!

You're right...and Havingfitz is experienced. Doesn't something seem very weird there?

I don't really want to do anything more with Ari because that's all he talks about Fitz in a relative sense (not a bad thing since Fitz has been V/LA)

There's nothing wrong with three people voting in the same exact way if it's for 110% valid reasons but I don't think this reason is 110% valid. There are certainly cracks and no one is following havingfitz. I think these reasons can be legitimate with the next post that he writes but not at the current moment.

Here are some reasons that fitz does draw actual concern though:

her replacing out is NAI imo regardless of reasons

1. I didn't ask you
2. I don't agree with you

1. We're you just thinking aloud and not looking for anyone else's opinion?
2. Who asked you?

Posts like these are very uncanny and weird. The fact this is toward TwoFace before the vote and then he votes TwoFace after listing multiple scumreads - especially with TwoFace arguably being the weakest of the bunch - is very weird. There's some sort of tunnel vision that Fitz is applying and it's not great. Started with Io in the beginning to a small degree, now it's straight onto TwoFace.

I also think that the response to me in 358 says a lot about Fitz's opinions of the game rather than opinions in general. The first two statements on VIs is ignorable because there's no reason to lie in that situation. Moving on from there:

The things he says and does are still fair game for assessing his alignment. I'm not and haven't been willing to just discard him for being new to this site.

This is the real meat of the situation. The fact that Fitz can't distinguish that some one, who is new, cannot have a different playstyle that would react differently to the overall alignment of a player is just straight up not true. There's no way Fitz can say that with a straight face without trying to convince himself of that fact.

Prior to the mason claims and Deer replacing in, Eric was lower down on my radar and not in conflict with your adamant mindset. With 3 people who were on my radar now removed for now...he has gone up on my list of suspects. And still not getting my vote despite that btw.

1) Eric did not post in between...so...?
2) Does that mean that you still suspect Deer for being in Io's slot? It certainly seems to be that way and links back to what I said at the top. Eric is probably 3rd lynch material for Fitz.

I know how to best play from a scum perspective and Fitz does that. Not from his words but from the long-term game. Am I willing to vote on that now? Yeah - maybe at the end of a BW or if nothing else really strikes anyone. I think I would rather get rid of Creeps first if this is how he's going to act for the rest of the game.

This is the post where he says he is going to explain the fishy reasons, but ends with saying he is willing to vote fitz. Doesn't vote fitz though.

Creeps Why tf do you keep on ignoring my questions? I'm trying to get a read on you through your answers to those questions and you just ignore it.

VOTE: Creeps till he answers my questions convincingly.

I couldnt get time to re-read yesterday. And i think there is no need now.

Current sus list:
Creeps
Gamma
Fitz (for reasons stated already by TF)

We found some OMGUS.
The only reason I am actually voting you is that you haven't told me who you are. As such I can't use meta to towns advantage. Pleased state which player you are now. Thank you.

Vote: Creeps

I like this better than Havingfitz. There are actual inconsistencies in Creeps play.

1) Do you think that you will actually find scum in someone not voting someone after making a list of scum? If they voted someone on their town list - fair. Not voting anyone? Bit hasty, no?
2) You did not state this in your original vote post.
3) In my opinion, this is a very very weak vote.

So after a big post saying he would vote fitz, he votes creep. Right after that vote mod posts a VC, if hiraki voted fitz that would be 4 votes for fitz. That's obviously him attempting to divert attention away from fitz. What happens next? Aristo/Gamma hop off fitz and vote creeps.

[TwoFace]

there is definitely more evidence for a fitz/hiraki scum team than what has been provided for a fitz/creep scum team

The ONLY thing that is questionable is why did fitz not join the creeps wagon, but that has already been explained.

what's more suspicious?

A. calling somebody town and not voting them

B. calling somebody scum and not voting them


B is hands down, especially when the person who B didn't want to vote flipped scum.

hiraki is scum

[TwoFace]

Yeah I know.

[TwoFace]

I cannot wait for arrogantface to eat utter shit with my flip - really looking forward to it.

Guess you shouldn't play like scum if you're town. You shouldn't push lynch bait over the person you said you'd vote who later flipped scum.

Can't blame me for your interactions making you look like the obvious partner.

Go fake rage some more. Maybe you'll fool somebody eventually

[TwoFace]

Today you've voted gamma and creeps. Neither of them make any sense as scum buddies.

If you're town, How can anyone take you seriously when you vote like that?

[TwoFace]

Why is Hiraki town?

Already asked and he refused to answer for fear of violating site rules. Which is technically a site rule violation cause you can't use bring outside influences which his response clearly implies he is doing.

[TwoFace]

Even if you flip town scum definitely hasn't won this so that's just dumb

exactly.

it's fake AtE. There is no reason if he were town he would be this upset and certainly there is nothing to suggest town is going to lose given we can narrow the lynch pool down to like 3/4 people. he just happens to be one of those 3/4 people and the only one calling him town can't do so using GAME RELATED reasons.

[TwoFace]

Today you've voted gamma and creeps. Neither of them make any sense as scum buddies.

If you're town, How can anyone take you seriously when you vote like that?

@hiraki

if you are town, do better and come back to me with 2 names besides gamma and creeps.

the game related information available to us all indicates that neither of these make sense for partners with fitz.

There is almost no chance gamma is scum just because fitz doesn't like to bus his partners unless he has to (yay game is over so I can actually use this)

Creeps was the obvious mislynch target day 1


so yeah, pull up your britches, wipe the tears from your eyes and put in the work.

I have and the work points to you being scum.

[TwoFace]

Don't worry - I know you'll call me garbage or whatever after my flip, really doesn't mean much coming from you!

I mean why should I be mad when gamma's best assertion toward why I'm scum is one sentence long? That's totally acceptable!

who cares about his reason.

what about mine? I provided SOLID FUCKING EVIDENCE on why you make sense for his buddy and you can't even attempt to refute it. instead you want to discredit somebody else's shit reason?


You are at L-1 and you're worried about gamma's reason?

[TwoFace]

when people feel they are being pushed for bad reasons as either alignment, it's pretty natural to get upset

except I provided good reasons and he isn't even trying to defend himself from them.

HE said at least 2/3 times that he could/would vote fitz and even had a chance to put him to L-3 and instead he voted creeps?

cmon man that's obvious scum trying to shift the wagon off a buddy, and it worked for a little while

[TwoFace]

I'm not unjustified in what I'm saying, right?

you are completely unjustified in what you're saying.

[TwoFace]

I don't really understand why you're pushing Gamma or Creeps, but that's possibly a failure on my part to read.

no it's not failure to read. the failure is on his part for failing to explain his reasons

[TwoFace]

If this is your attitude the entire time, I can see why people didn't put time in to listen to you or take you seriously.

that applies really well to hiraki right now if he is town, though he probably isn't so it's a good thing he is at L-1

[TwoFace]

I haven't misrepped anyone btw

[TwoFace]

I haven't misrepped anyone btw

You took my post, took the relevant part out, and judged it based on half the facts

That is literally the definition of misrepresentation is a representation of my views that is incorrect

No I didn't. The part after that was actually irrelevant at all.

You said that the part I quoted was worthy enough of a vote by itself but you had more reasons

I don't fucking care if you had more reasons or not. My issue with your post was the part I quoted.

That's not misrepping you. That's calling you out on some bullshit

[TwoFace]

let's look at the post again,

I don't remember 1161 to 1221 specifically by numbers and I'm on mobile so checking is a pain in the ass.

Cool - this is enough for me to put a vote on

Like I get, you say right after this that you have more reasons but THIS post alone is supposedly good enough to vote him.

but it isn't. it's a stupid fucking reason to vote somebody. THAT is what I took issue with.

I would like to think players who are town, would not suspect somebody for such a shitty reason. That is just another reason why i think you are scum. All of your votes have been for terrible or non AI reasons.

much like fitz's reasons were for terrible or non AI reasons.

see a trend?

fitz had bad/non ai reasons - he flipped scum

you have bad/non ai reasons - i think you are scum

here is the kicker... YOU NEVER ONCE VOTED FITZ. You said you would, but you never did.

you look bad, plain and simple.

if you are town, like I said. stop playing like scum

[TwoFace]

hmm

UNVOTE:

[TwoFace]

Fitz supposedly doesn't bus so gamma/fitz doesn't make sense to me.

Using that. Fitz/creeps could work but again, others look more suspicious

[TwoFace]

I'm going to look into this josh/vedith thing at some point. He did do a weird 180

[TwoFace]

I'm going to look into this josh/vedith thing at some point. He did do a weird 180

What 180?_?

The one you did. On the road ATM. I'll quote it later

[TwoFace]

I thought we established hiraki was wrong and misread my post? Let's see it

Well I'll check that also

[TwoFace]

And to Hiraki's benefit, the targets that he's chosen don't really make sense from a mafia perspective;

How do? They make absolutely no sense from a town perspective. Creeps is lynch bait and the counter to hiraki who based on evidence looks like slam dunk scum.

Gamma is essential clear given fitz late push to get him lynched.

Both maybe useless but are sitting safely on the list of d2 unlynchables imo.

[TwoFace]

I still would like to hear Hiraki's reasons for townreading AJ, though.

Still waiting for game related reasons for vedith town reading hiraki also.

[TwoFace]

slam dunk scum

I've tried to talk about the reasons I've seen for Hiraki today - are there important pieces that I haven't addressed? Do you understand my perspective on what I have addressed?

I don't agree with any of your perspectives.

Hiraki scum isn't going to hard defend his scum buddy. Casting shade on him but not voting is the most common form of distancing that I've seen.

His reasons for creeps weren't very good. Nobody's reasons for creeps have been good. It felt like a pl day 1, and it feels like it again today.

Do you seriously think we caught 2 scum day 1? Got one to l-1 and have the wagon fall apart onto another scum?

Seems highly unlikely

[TwoFace]

I just finished a game with fitz as a replacement who lynched scum and was accused of bussing. I didn't verify his work but he claimed (as town with no motivation to lie) that he almost never busses. He could only remember 1 time where he claimed he had to.

But ignore that. Use common sense. Does the fitz/gamma interactions really look like scum/scum? To me absolutely not.

[TwoFace]

VOTE COUNT 2.05

Hiraki (4): Joshz, Lil Uzi Vert, FrankJaeger, Gamma Emerald
Creeps20 (2): Vedith, Aristophanes
FrankJaeger (1): xSoniaNevermindx
AJ The Epic (1): Nachomamma8
Gamma Emerald (1): Hiraki

No Vote (2): Aj The Epic, TwoFace

With 11 players living, 6 votes are required to lynch.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-12-20 16:30:00)

NOTES

xSoniaNevermindx replaces Creeps20
Gamma Emerald V/LA until 16 December (normal activity/prod requirements will apply)

@nacho - hiraki made a big post responding to me that concludes with him saying he would vote fitz. Shortly after he voted creep. I don't see similar type posts explaining creeps scum (unless I somehow missed it) so that's weird for me.

Says will vote scum but instead votes the counter to scum usually points to scum not town. Factor in his bad reads and over the top fake AtE. I don't see how he's town here.

[TwoFace]

why did you quote the vc tf

No idea lol

[TwoFace]

I don't re read.

Then why did you replace in?

That's unacceptable.

[TwoFace]

There's way too many masons lately. Need some new game reviewers.

[TwoFace]

Vedith - not really scummy, but Joshz thinks so

Disagree here

[TwoFace]

If there's another pr I'd assume they'd have claimed already cause I doubt there'd be masons bg/backup / 5th pr.

Agree here. Essentially said this already myself

[TwoFace]

What a conveniently placed votecount! Who TF is Sonia??
Also, hi!

Creeps

[TwoFace]

Not really since you're voting creeps slot.

[TwoFace]

That is not what I said, I even quoted the post in the previous page when talking to Nacho. You can't just stuff words in my mouth, I know what I said. Here it is, yet again:

Well that makes me even more suspicious of you given fitz was scum. Creeps was a bad vote. Nobody had good reasons for him, not even you imo.

[TwoFace]

but I can't say anymore since it's ongoing.

then why bring it up?

i don't get why people bring up stuff they aren't allowed to talk about

[TwoFace]

VOTE: hiraki

Back to l-1

[TwoFace]

Nobody hammer until aj and sonia have caught up and given thoughts please

Aj has had ample time and Sonia said she isn't reading so f both of them.

[TwoFace]

TwoFace I'm p sure this is scum so join me on this.
VOTE: Aj the Epic
Your SR on Joshz is horrendous and needs to get fixed, read Eric until you see that there's no way he's scum.

If people want me to stop tunneling they need to provide me with a better alternative with

good reasoning

[TwoFace]

There's been a game with a backup protection role before. Do you honestly think scum would claim backup bg? A role that's not even common? If he's scum he's a ballsy MFer

[TwoFace]

yeah he didn't claim 1 shot so not sure where that came from

[TwoFace]

Yeah no wifom. Protect nacho

[TwoFace]

Sometime after the holiday I'll sit down and try and figure things out. Kind of lost right now

[TwoFace]

I don't think he did anything blacklist worthy. He didn't play optimally but that's about it.

[TwoFace]

the way he did does

How did he do it?

[TwoFace]

whatever not even TF sees it

I have you as probably town but not conf tow.

I'm asking you to explain what you're trying too say. What about fitz's push on you makes it less likely to be a bus/distancing

[TwoFace]

I mean he did point to the asking mason to claim which is prett bad.

Have you played another game where mason was almost lynched? If yes link?

I'll be fact checking so if you say no and find one that's a scum claim.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: ari

[TwoFace]

UNVOTE:

I'd love to hear it. When combing isos, his didn't look that great.

[TwoFace]

v/la through the weekend

[TwoFace]

I've done plenty to read me on. I'm going to be limited for the next couple of days since I declared v/la earlier. I've tried to look over the thread and based on day 1 I'm thinking maybe I was wrong on creeps but idk.

Ari is who I want to lynch. I'd lynch AJ cause nothing about his attitude reads town.

[TwoFace]

I don't remember you being so hell bent on losing games.

VOTE: Gamma

I think I made it clear that at the very least today should be the groundwork to actually pick out someone who's scum and if you have to, lynch me D4. You die tonight so why do something that the town seems incredibly capable of doing?

Case on gamma please

[TwoFace]

Where was all this the previous day? You didn't do anything but exsist.

[TwoFace]

He just produced something though. Why didn't you comment on it

[TwoFace]

"Finally do something" alright really, buzz off. I didn't waste my damn time making a case on you for you to just pretend it doesn't exist.

Wait. Where is your case for Ari? You made one for gamma

[TwoFace]

Those posts by gamma are pretty bad. I could see him being scum with fitz.

[TwoFace]

Didn't see that one. Thanks

[TwoFace]

Merry Christmas everyone.

[TwoFace]

I've never had it before.

[TwoFace]

Emp,if you're town you're freaking stupid. I pushed hardest for having to get lynched.

[TwoFace]

The only vcs I wasn't on were ones after he claimed. I started the wagon on him. I pushed hardest for his lynch. Harder than anyone else on his wagon. You're vca is either wrong or you're scum

[TwoFace]

I don't lynch claimed PRs day 1.

You really need to read and not just look at VCs. Those don't tell the whole story.

[TwoFace]

That's not an awful policy. Why do people keep saying that? So many stupid people I guess. The risk of possibly lynching a pr isn't worth the reward. Day 1 you leave a claimed pr alive. You don't want to do mafia's job for them if you're wrong.

Yes I'm pretty sure every game I've played where a pr claimed day 1, I stated my policy. Let me find the games.

[TwoFace]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8413025

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8526212

Here are completed games.

[TwoFace]

Look at those 2 games. 1 was scum and the other was town. Neither was lynched. Scum was lynched eventually cause claim made no sense. The town pr I basically stopped town from lynching the legit cop and town won. Had he been lynched scum won that game.

It's not a bad policy. PRs play like shit on this site, they do it on purpose. Any other day it's different but the risk of being wrong day 1 hands down outweighs the rewards.

People need to use common sense.

[TwoFace]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8413025

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8526212

Here are completed games.

Empking: "I'm not reading 80 pages of this game. Show me where you said you don't lynch PRs D1."
TwoFace: "Sure! Read these other two games and you'll see!"

He asked for evidence of my policy

[TwoFace]

Anyone who thinks I'm scum with fitz is either scum trying to cast shade or stupid

[TwoFace]

The only vcs I wasn't on were ones after he claimed. I started the wagon on him. I pushed hardest for his lynch. Harder than anyone else on his wagon. You're vca is either wrong or you're scum

Well you dropped him like it was hot in post 500. More than 500 posts before you claimed. You then got back on him, which I haven't gotten to yet. We will see if it seems forced.

(Also just repeating the mantra 'if you think I'm scum, You're scum' won't have any effect on me.)

Dropped him like he's hot? Not quite. I said since people aren't going to vote him (which they weren't) I'll go for
His buddy.

His wagon went from 3 to me and nobody else wanted to vote him.

[TwoFace]

Two gets no credit for Having's lynch.

Bullshit. Just cause I wasn't on the wagon, that's my wagon.

You're scum aren't you?

[TwoFace]

Wait just read the gamma part. Yeah emp is almost definitely scum

VOTE: emp

No way gamma gets credit at all and I get none. You have that backwards

[TwoFace]

I didn't try to convince people? You're fucking shitting me

[TwoFace]

I made a ton of posts explaining why fitz was scum and spent a lifetime tying to convince people.

Yeah I'm good with my vote.

[TwoFace]

well if you're town you can't read for shit. I was the most vocal for a fitz lynch. No buddy is going to hard bus only to back off once it's inevitable.

Who's your partner?

[TwoFace]

So when you unvoted - for the last time - you thought his lynch was inevitable? When then did you unvote? Posturing?

What are you talking about? What unvote

[TwoFace]

So when you unvoted - for the last time - you thought his lynch was inevitable? When then did you unvote? Posturing?

What are you talking about? What unvote

You claimed that you backed off once you thought the lynch was inevitable - this isn't true, you unvoted when Fitz claimed Jailkeeper and that certainly wasn't a reasonable time to believe that the lynch was inevitable.

Deadline was less than 12 hours away when I changed my vote. His lynch was basically going to happen regardless of his claim.

[TwoFace]

So why the unvote?

Why ask the question when you already know the answer?

We discussed this. You asked for examples of it.

You don't lynch a claimed pr day 1 ever

[/quote]

Damn at least make yourself look like town

[TwoFace]

You don't lynch a claimed pr day 1 ever.

[TwoFace]

I'm not going to go against my on policy for anything.

Anyone who thinks I can be scum with fitz after basically handing him to town on a platter is either stupid or scum.

[TwoFace]

I didn't get cold feet

[TwoFace]

I haven't flip flopped anything. Lie more scum.

[TwoFace]

I haven't flip flopped anything. Lie more scum.

Was your unvote about trying to enact your policy on not lynching claimed PRs Day One, or was it about posturing since you considered our lynching a claimed PR Day One inevitable?

Regardless of which answer you give now, you've given the opposite one previously. But, I'm not infallible, perhaps I am misunderstanding. Could that not be worth one line of comment if we really are starved for comment?

I've given updated reads an everyone but Arist and the masons in one post or another since reading through it.

P-Edit: Yo, Josh, in post 2028 were you saying I've given no scum reads on anyone but you?

Well let's be accurate. First it wasn't an unvote, I changed my vote. I did so because I don't lynch claimed PRs day 1. Doesn't matter if it's inevitable or not.

My answer now is no different than any of my previous answers.

Can we SERIOUSLY lynch this scum now?

He blatantly lied saying I flip flopped when I never did. There's no town motivation for this type of lying.

[TwoFace]

His retaliatory and dishonest reaction to this claim also looks bad.

Only one being dishonest here is you. I haven't lied once, because I don't lie.

[TwoFace]

That reason for a lynch is a load of horseshit Twoface

Are you protecting you're scum buddy? Cause he said either scum or the dumbest mfer ive ever seen.

[TwoFace]

He is either scum*

Stupid phone

[TwoFace]

Are you going to play the game correctly or just AtE?

Look, you jumped ship right at the end. Cold feet is cold feet. The point he's going for doesn't change regardless of your framing. What I see is you playing semantics to deflect this. What's it matter if you voted elsewhere vs plain unvoting? You still jumped ship right before a lynch was about to be achieved.

I'm playing the game. Are you? I caught one scum. Have you?

I didn't t cold feet. I have a god damn established policy where I don't lynch claimed PRs day 1.

I said it earlier that anyone who claims I could be scum with fitz is either claiming scum or claiming stupid.

That's not anything but the truth. If you don't like those options tfb. Cause there is absolutely zero chance I could be scum with fitz.

Fitz voted me when better options were available. He voted me when he had actually more reasons for others in his list read. First, fitz has established meta that he doesn't bus. Second, if you ignore meta (which I don't blame you cause meta sucks) it makes literally no sense for fitz to vote me when he could have voted somebody else when he didn't have to. If this was day 2/3 or something maybe you could make the case but not Day 1.

I blew his shit up and made awesome arguments as to why he was scum. I'd never do that to a scum buddy day 1 cause it's just bad play. Bussing day 1 is mathematically stupid because you reduce your chances of winning.

Backing off his lynch if I'm scum with him is also stupid. It risks taking all the town cred I could potentially earn and flushes it down the toilet.

There is absolutely no scum motivation for hard bussing and doing a 180 and avoiding the lynch.

If people can't see that, they are scum or stupid. I don't know how this day it delicately for you sensitive people but this also isn't kindergarten. I assume everyone is an adult so you can take the harsh reality.

If you're town and think I'm scum, I'm going to call you stupid because I don't see how anyone who is town can honestly think I can be scum.

[TwoFace]

Your moving your vote from Having was either in order to enact your policy of trying to stop claimed PRs being lynched day one

I've said this was the reason from the beginning and I haven't waivered. Why do you keep asking me? You think I'm going to change my answer?

I unvoted cause I don't lynch claimed PRs day 1.

[TwoFace]

So you were trying to stop Having from being lynched day one.

And there's the scum claim.

Ok emp is confirmed scum.

I never said this. I never implied this. This is just flat out scum manipulation

[TwoFace]

neither one of you putting toward a convincing argument against the other.

That's false also btw. The reasons fitz ultimately got lynched stemmed from my arguments. I made at least 3/4 significant arguments that outlined why fitz was scum.

[TwoFace]

Since you're claiming to have made "awesome" arguments to why he must be scum, would you mind quoting one of them?

1. Can't on my phone. 2. If I could, I wouldn't because I don't enable lazy people but especially lazy scum.

If you're town you'd do the work. You'd put actual effort into the game.

There's literally nothing anyone can do/say to change my mind at this point. You're scum. You need to be lynched

[TwoFace]

Twoface did not make a single decent argument against Having.

Lie

[TwoFace]

I value my policy more than being on the inevitable lynch of the scum who I definitely caught and got lynched

I do value my policy more than being on a scum lynch that I was basically responsible for.

See I have integrity and I'm a man of my word. This may get lost to most people on here because everyone thinks it's ok to lie as town. When I say something, I mean it. When I say I don't lynch claimed PRs day 1, I'm not going to go against my word no matter how much I think somebody is scum.

If you have a problem with that, then you have thus proven what I've been saying all along. You're scum or stupid. Only a stupid person wants to encourage people to lie and abandon their beliefs and the use it against them when they don't.

Also earlier you gave nacho and gamma credit for a fitz lynch but nacho didn't explain his scum read until AFTER fitz fake claimed and gamma's vote was for something stupid.

You want to find my arguments for fitz? Iso search me and find my first serious vote for fitz. The read the series of posts I made after that which explain all of the reasons why fitz was scum. That's 10x more effort than anyone put in to getting a fitz wagon going. Nobody else did. if you haven't seen that by now, you've confirmed yet again you are scum.

[TwoFace]

P-p-edit: if you can't find one. And I can't find one. One probably doesn't exist.

Who said I couldn't? I can find a bunch. The fact that you claim you have tried and can't find one is more evidence you are scum.

[TwoFace]

P-p (and p) - edit: I Mean the fact that when asked to provide evidence you said you wouldn't is good enough evidence for me to say you can't (perhaps you call that my policy).

This isn't even alignment indicative. You just flat out proved you are stupid.

I would hold nacho's hand when he replaced in and he was a claimed mason. What makes you think I'm going to hold the hand of somebody who I think is scum?

You have at least 1 mason who says that I'm town(probably both,can't remember)

You have gamma (who you say was responsible for fitz's lynch) say that I actually was at least partly responsible

Yet you are going to sit there and say I didn't make any agumenys? Are these people lying?

Regardless of your alignment, but especially if you're town. You have the responsibility to fact check before you make accusations. To say I never made any arguments against fitz is factually incorrect.

Good day sir

[TwoFace]

Also stop putting "I" and "Lynch" in the same sentence. You can't lynch anyone

[TwoFace]

At this point Emp is just shading.

Yeah he needs rope. No way he's town

[TwoFace]

2080 is blatant lying

Obviously it's not a blatant lie because in 2079 I even directed you to where you're can find my arguments against fitz.


But you don't seem too interested in looking for those. You'd rather just pretend they didn't exsist for some reason. Not sure what that reason is but it certainly isn't a protown reason.

[TwoFace]

Refusing to help you is just me being an asshole. It's not me lying.

I'm an asshole sometimes. Espeically to lazy replacements.

[TwoFace]

Emp. You may need a longer dress. Your slip is showing.

[TwoFace]

Got to Two's revote. Its meh, the fact it comes after Gamma says he thinks Having looked scummy is a slight point in his favour.

LMAOOOOOO

Sorry luv my read on vedith is back to red.

Am I right in thinking that its another: "You think I'm scum, you must be scum"?

For the class. What part of this post are you saying is a lie? You made this post

[TwoFace]

Your arguments sucked.

Correctly nails scum
Gets told my arguments sucked


I'm officially done talking to you. There's zero chance you are town.

[TwoFace]

Not being able to find things that do not exist is not lazy. I

you just admitted they did exsist...

[TwoFace]

Have you not been paying attention to his posts?

Tbh no. I'm busy lynching caught scum to worry about anyone else.