Newbie 509 - Game Over

[Dean Harper]

1) i really thought my vote was only the second one for Tenebrys

2) i re-read some of the posts to find out that it was actually the 3rd vote.

3) i the RE-read the other posts i missed to find out that my vote was the lynching vote.

4) I unvoted, and prayed that he wouldnt be lynched

5) I know that everything i did seems scummy, but there's the truth.

6) i dont blame you if you lynch me, but it would be a mistake. i can tell all of you right now that i am a townie.

7) that too may seem scummy as hell, but all i can post is what i know as the truth in this situation

[cepi]

You were on the lynch as well. You can participate in the conversation.

Sure. Before voting I didnt have a principal suspect. Even Tenebrys wasnt enough suspicious for me, taking in count he had just a few posts with not enough input.

So why did I vote him? Basically, he was a lurking player. I honestly think there was a big possibility of finding scum in his lurking attitudes. Besides the irrelevant fact that I dont like that gamestyle. So, I thought putting him in L-2 was enough to get him talking.

But then, sprugistan, an IC, and Dean Harper, a newbie*, almost consecutevely vote for him. Why?

Well, both seem to have the "I didnt realize what I did" argument. I may buy it from spurgistan, because not realizing a L-1 with JDodge's lurking is kinda believable. But Dean Harper, god, I seiously cant believe you. How in hell did u miss two votes?


* As I stated before, I seriosuly have the feeling hes using too much his "Im a stupid newbie" argumente too many times.

[Xylthixlm]

I don't really see DH using the "stupid newbie" argument anywhere. His last post sort of has it, in a "I may be really scummy but it's not because I'm scum" way, but he doesn't actually say that's because he's a newbie. Maybe it's just implicit. Speaking of which, what's up with the spontaneous townie claim?

I can actually sort of believe that DH and spurgistan miscounted the votes. I checked the votes on Tenebrys after cepi's vote, and I knew I got it wrong because my result was one vote. I checked again, and lo and behold I had failed to count

my own vote

.

On the other hand, DH's claim that he thought he was putting Tenebrys at 2 is difficult to swallow. He only had to look at the previous five posts to find two votes. It's not like he and spurgistan simulposted or anything.

I still haven't reread day 1 in light of our known innocents. I'll get to that tomorrow.

[Rishi]

Fun fact: Xyl is the only player that was both on the Dean Harper bandwagon (which got to L -1) and the Tenebrys bandwagon.

[spurgistan]

Neither of the two dead townies said anything that could point to who killed Mispeled. Tenebrys obviously posted little all game, which is why that one bad post hit me as scummy. Mispeled thought I was lurking for most of the game, but never did more than grunt and say that nobody else was playing particularly effectively, either. So, unless somebody can catch something that I missed (Rishi's point is interesting, but unconvincing for now) day 1 seems to have been something of a waste, only now we are in a Lynch or Lose situation. So yeah, no votes until we know how this is going down.

[Xylthixlm]

Rishi, you should check your "fun fact". By my count spurgistan was on both bandwagons too.

[Rishi]

Thanks, Xyl. You are correct. It was an oversight on my part, but it brings up an interesting point - spurgistan posted after my "fun fact" and didn't say anything about my mistake.

Also, I don't find Xyl on Tenebrys's wagon that suspicious. He was the first vote there and the lynch happened so fast that he can't be blamed for not unvoting.

I'm not so sure about spurgistan though, who put the L -1 vote. I actually find that vote more suspicious than Dean Harper's hammer, since it's obvious that DH actually made an effort to find out where the vote count was at, but miscounted. (As evidenced by DH's unvote.) I really hate using the argument that an IC should know better, because I've met some really dumb ICs. But spurgistan, as far as I know (haven't played with him before) is not a really dumb IC. So he should have known better.

What do the rest of you think?

[Dean Harper]

Thanks, Xyl. You are correct. It was an oversight on my part, but it brings up an interesting point - spurgistan posted after my "fun fact" and didn't say anything about my mistake.

Also, I don't find Xyl on Tenebrys's wagon that suspicious. He was the first vote there and the lynch happened so fast that he can't be blamed for not unvoting.

I'm not so sure about spurgistan though, who put the L -1 vote. I actually find that vote more suspicious than Dean Harper's hammer, since it's obvious that DH actually made an effort to find out where the vote count was at, but miscounted. (As evidenced by DH's unvote.) I really hate using the argument that an IC should know better, because I've met some really dumb ICs. But spurgistan, as far as I know (haven't played with him before) is not a really dumb IC. So he should have known better.

What do the rest of you think?

something bothers me about this post, but im not sure what just yet...

[spurgistan]

Thanks, Xyl. You are correct. It was an oversight on my part, but it brings up an interesting point - spurgistan posted after my "fun fact" and didn't say anything about my mistake.

Also, I don't find Xyl on Tenebrys's wagon that suspicious. He was the first vote there and the lynch happened so fast that he can't be blamed for not unvoting.

I'm not so sure about spurgistan though, who put the L -1 vote. I actually find that vote more suspicious than Dean Harper's hammer, since it's obvious that DH actually made an effort to find out where the vote count was at, but miscounted. (As evidenced by DH's unvote.) I really hate using the argument that an IC should know better, because I've met some really dumb ICs. But spurgistan, as far as I know (haven't played with him before) is not a really dumb IC. So he should have known better.

What do the rest of you think?

Righto, on that. I didn't say anything because I keep forgetting I had that random vote on DH. And no, I at least like to think I'm not a dumb IC. And yes, I should have checked the vote count. But Cepi's vote really looked like somebody putting a first vote on somebody. I realize this is asking a lot of somebody who's been through a bit on this site. But no, I can honestly say that Tenebrys did not deserve to be put at L-1 by me, not to mention lynched; if anything, he needed a replacement, he hasn't posted since. I like putting people who aren't posting under the microscope, but putting lurkers at -1 is generally a bad decision. If I'd been aware, I'm sure I wouldn't have.

[Xylthixlm]

cepi and Rishi are scum. Discuss.

[Dean Harper]

cepi and Rishi are scum. Discuss.

I dont know why, but this whole time, i have never gotten a good read on either of them. Their posts are often rather empty, and just use a lot of words to make it look like they are posting something important. So yeah, its possible their both scum, but im not going to bandwagon them until i can look over some of those posts again.

Now, Spurg is still high on my priority list, as he put Tene in -1 as an IC which was not a smart thing to do for a townie.

[Rishi]

cepi and Rishi are scum. Discuss.

???

You care to back that up?

[cepi]

I don't really see DH using the "stupid newbie" argument anywhere. His last post sort of has it, in a "I may be really scummy but it's not because I'm scum" way, but he doesn't actually say that's because he's a newbie. Maybe it's just implicit. Speaking of which, what's up with the spontaneous townie claim?

Its implicit. I may be crazy but I see it everywhere.
- He claims town - Risky newbie (or not so newbie) move
- He says he didnt realize he was hammering Tenebrys. Twice - Im a stupid newbie, forgive me for not realizing, twice. See?

Besides that, I agree with all u said in that post.ç

Fun fact: Xyl is the only player that was both on the Dean Harper bandwagon (which got to L -1) and the Tenebrys bandwagon.

I was going to post something like this as soos as I read that :

"Funnier fact 1: U forgot Spurgistan was invoved in both situations.
Funnier fact 2 : Xyl was the first voting Tenebrys, so no bandwagon here.
Funnier fact 3 : Spurgistan's vote was random."

I didnt like that post at all. Read further.

Neither of the two dead townies said anything that could point to who killed Mispeled. Tenebrys obviously posted little all game, which is why that one bad post hit me as scummy. Mispeled thought I was lurking for most of the game, but never did more than grunt and say that nobody else was playing particularly effectively, either. So, unless somebody can catch something that I missed (Rishi's point is interesting, but unconvincing for now) day 1 seems to have been something of a waste, only now we are in a Lynch or Lose situation. So yeah, no votes until we know how this is going down.

For me, it wasnt a waste. Read my first post after after Tenebrys and Mispeled deads. I firmly believe theres a scum between u and Dean Harper.

Thanks, Xyl. You are correct. It was an oversight on my part, but it brings up an interesting point - spurgistan posted after my "fun fact" and didn't say anything about my mistake.

He did.

Rishi's point is interesting, but unconvincing for now

Which is a logic answer to ur fun fact. Its unconvincig. U realised that in an after post.

I'm not so sure about spurgistan though, who put the L -1 vote. I actually find that vote more suspicious than Dean Harper's hammer, since it's obvious that DH actually made an effort to find out where the vote count was at, but miscounted. (As evidenced by DH's unvote.) I really hate using the argument that an IC should know better, because I've met some really dumb ICs. But spurgistan, as far as I know (haven't played with him before) is not a really dumb IC. So he should have known better.

Im having problems deciding which attitude is the scummiest. And DH's unvote doesnt say a lot to me. Damage control?, "Im a stupid newbie" argument again?. Maybe. Why are u defending him?

something bothers me about this post, but im not sure what just yet

Same here. I dont like ur last post either, DH. Ur posts are usually longer.

cepi and Rishi are scum. Discuss.

I dont see any reasoning here. Care to explain? And, on a side note, Am I the one who finds one of the last two votes on Tenebrys scummy as hell?

Now, Spurg is still high on my priority list, as he put Tene in -1 as an IC which was not a smart thing to do for a townie

OMG, I cant believe u just posted that. Do u remember who hammered Tenebrys? Why are u and Rishi, both attacking Spurgistan with such silly arguments?

SFoS : Dean Harper, Rishi

[Xylthixlm]

You care to back that up?

Not yet, no.

[Dean Harper]

Now, Spurg is still high on my priority list, as he put Tene in -1 as an IC which was not a smart thing to do for a townie

OMG, I cant believe u just posted that. Do u remember who hammered Tenebrys? Why are u and Rishi, both attacking Spurgistan with such silly arguments?

SFoS : Dean Harper, Rishi

Yes, i remember Cepi, it was me. Is this really such a "silly argument"?

I mean, it WAS Spurgistan who put him in -1, not me. I voted for Tene for legitimate reasons, and I mad the mistake of hammering him.

[spurgistan]

After going over the posts again, i agree with Spurgistan. Tenebyrs has not been contributing hardly at all, and what he does contribute is a lot of dodging around what other people have said and trying to make it look like something new.

He has the most amount of suspicion on him from me, and i see no reason to not suspect him as scum. Unless you count the fact that no we really have very little to go on with him. The only other person i suspect about the same as Tene is Xyl, because he unvoted me so quickly. So, without further ado, i give you my

Vote: Tenebrys

Now, Spurg is still high on my priority list, as he put Tene in -1 as an IC which was not a smart thing to do for a townie

OMG, I cant believe u just posted that. Do u remember who hammered Tenebrys? Why are u and Rishi, both attacking Spurgistan with such silly arguments?

SFoS : Dean Harper, Rishi

Yes, i remember Cepi, it was me. Is this really such a "silly argument"?

I mean, it WAS Spurgistan who put him in -1, not me. I voted for Tene for legitimate reasons, and I mad the mistake of hammering him.

So while when you voted, your reasons for voting Tenebrys were the same as mine. You said so. But now, your reasons were "legitimate", while mine, by extension, were not. I'm liking you less after that.

[Dean Harper]

sorry if that sounded as if i was completely agreeing with everything you were saying Spurg. I should have clarified that i was only agreeing with your vote. My reasons for voting for Tene were much different than yours, which were based on one of his page 2 posts. My own reasons were completely because he did not contribute enough within D1.

[Dean Harper]

EBWOP:

Also that he was dodging around everything and not really giving anything substantial to conversation.

[Xylthixlm]

Dean Harper, if you're tired of explaining your hammer from day 1, how about you tell us who you think is scum right now. We've got 2 scum left, I bet you have a guess as to who they are.

spurgistan, you too. I'm sure you have a guess. I really have no clue who you think is scummy, other than perhaps DH, and I don't like that. Stop holding your cards so close to your chest.

cepi, you say you think there's a scum between spurgistan and Dean Harper - do you think they're both scum, and if not, who do you suspect for the other? "I think one of two people is scum" is a remarkably weak guess if you are town, since the only way you would be wrong is if I was scum with Rishi.

Rishi, you're being kind of quiet. All your arguments right now seem to be based on the vote record, and I don't consider that good evidence on its own. Can you back it up?

I'll explain my own reasoning after I've gotten replies from everyone.

[Dean Harper]

well, to back Rishi up, he did say at the beginning that his playstyle was waiting and putting in small remarks to keep the conversation rolling. But, he also said that it would stop in the later game...

My personal guess as to who is scum is actually Cepi and Spurgistan. Cepi because the whole game, hes found someone to hide behind (me while Xyl was suspecting me, and now Spurgistan, and backing him up while he's under pressure.) This may be a scum move because the people he wants lynched so he doesnt have to do the dirty work are not getting pressured.

Of course, that could be untrue, because he did back me up in the early game, so why would he want me lynched now. Maybe Tenebyrs was his first choice, and now its me?

Spurg, my main reason to still suspect you is that you DID put Tene in -1. But, you also have been kinda quite around here, not contributing much.

Then again, you do seems to be genuinely scumhunting, so you are far less scummy on my list than Cepi.

Now, Rishi, i personally dont know if you are scum or not, you seems to give off pro-town vibes at times, but at others, you just seem scummy for some reason.

Im wondering if a roll call might help, since we have no idea if we have a cop or not. Just a suggestion, sometimes it doesnt work out well, and we might not wanna do it in this situation.

[cepi]

Yes, i remember Cepi, it was me. Is this really such a "silly argument"?

Dean Harper, it is. Its like saying "Well, Spurg, You hurted the bird so now Im going to kill it, and then Ill blame you for his death" Sounds right to u?

I mean, it WAS Spurgistan who put him in -1, not me. I voted for Tene for legitimate reasons, and I mad the mistake of hammering him

I still cant believe u made that mistake. Seriuosly there were two votes in the same page!!

So while when you voted, your reasons for voting Tenebrys were the same as mine. You said so. But now, your reasons were "legitimate", while mine, by extension, were not. I'm liking you less after that.

Interesting catch, but Ill have to agree with DH here :

sorry if that sounded as if i was completely agreeing with everything you were saying Spurg. I should have clarified that i was only agreeing with your vote. My reasons for voting for Tene were much different than yours, which were based on one of his page 2 posts. My own reasons were completely because he did not contribute enough within D1.

So, Spurgistan, this was the best time for attacking DH, huh? I have a little question for u, What do u think so far of Rishi and Xyl? Two- three lignes will be fine.

cepi, you say you think there's a scum between spurgistan and Dean Harper - do you think they're both scum, and if not, who do you suspect for the other? "I think one of two people is scum" is a remarkably weak guess if you are town, since the only way you would be wrong is if I was scum with Rishi.

No, Its not a weak guess. I still think there's a scum between Dean Harper and Spurgistan. Thanks to todays posts there is less posibility of both of them being scum. But, Im still having problems deciding which is the scummiest and who is his partner. So, there are a lot of possibilities of being wrong: "Spurgistan - Xyl" "Spurgistan - Rishi " "DH - Xyl" "DH - Rishi " If u had read my last post u, of course, would have realised I was playing with this last possibility.

cepi and Rishi are scum. Discuss.

This is a weak guess until u dont explain yourself. I need ur opinions now.

My personal guess as to who is scum is actually Cepi and Spurgistan. Cepi because the whole game, hes found someone to hide behind (me while Xyl was suspecting me, and now Spurgistan, and backing him up while he's under pressure.) This may be a scum move because the people he wants lynched so he doesnt have to do the dirty work are not getting pressured.

Im not getting this. Can u explain me why is it scummy to defend someone I want lynched? Did I read it wrong? And why did u exclude Xyl from ur analysis?

[spurgistan]

And no, DH, a mass-claim (what I think you asked for) would not at all be a good thing, now. We need to lynch one of the scumlords today, or the game is lost. If we manage to pull that off today(40% odds, although I can obviously call that 50% if we don't lynch me) we go into tomorrow with either 3 townies : 1 scum or 2:1, depending on whether or not we get a doc protection (3:1 against). Also, the cop's investiagation becomes incrementally more powerful as the players dwindle. If we have a power role survive the night, that basically wins the game for town. Anyways, in a c-9 game a mass-claim is essentially worthless, as there are only 3 roles with no character names to claim, and anybody can claim vanilla. All that will do is add five posts with everybody claiming vanilla.

So while I seem to be a popular possible scumpartner these days, I'm not really hearing a lot of reasons why. I put Tenebrys at -1, and I'm sorry for that, I had no idea. Looks like he hasn't posted since, so what he really needed was a replacement, anyways. Another brave soldier lost to WoW [shakes head]. But anybody want to point to anything tying me to anybody? I'd love to address it.

[Dean Harper]

But anybody want to point to anything tying me to anybody? I'd love to address it.

No, i guess you really dont have any ties with anyone right now, but i still dont want to dismiss you as a townie. My personal vote might go for Cepi. And Cepi, to answer your question of why Xyl wasnt in my analysis is because i dont believe he is scum, plain and simple.

[Dean Harper]

Of course, Xyl COULD be scum, but im not really counting on it. It seems unlikely to me that a scum would put himself out so far in the early game as he questioned me. It also seems unlikely that a scum would scumhunt me so aggressively. The only thing i have against him is that he took his vote off of me as soon as he saw Rishi unvote me.

[cepi]

So while I seem to be a popular possible scumpartner these days, I'm not really hearing a lot of reasons why. I put Tenebrys at -1, and I'm sorry for that, I had no idea. Looks like he hasn't posted since, so what he really needed was a replacement, anyways. Another brave soldier lost to WoW [shakes head]. But anybody want to point to anything tying me to anybody? I'd love to address it.

Basically, not realizing u put someone at L-1 as an IC is the only big reason u r in my suspect book. What else? A little bit of lurking at the beginning. Some posts with no content. But what else can u ask if we just had 5 pages of D-1? BTW U havent answered my question.

What do u think so far of Rishi and Xyl? Two- three lignes will be fine.

BTW, Xyl, do u still think DH is scum as hell ? I reread all the posts this morning and I found out u were pretty conviced.

Of course, Xyl COULD be scum, but im not really counting on it. It seems unlikely to me that a scum would put himself out so far in the early game as he questioned me. It also seems unlikely that a scum would scumhunt me so aggressively. The only thing i have against him is that he took his vote off of me as soon as he saw Rishi unvote me.

You didnt think like that when Xyl was scumhunting u.

personally, i wasnt even thinking about Cepi throwing the suspicion on me, but now that u mention it, im kinda suspicious too. Then again, im pretty suspicious of you now too Xyl, since you are waiting for that one guy's replacement to vote. If you are waiting for him, im thinking you might want to coordinate your vote with him in order to not be suspicious until you can talk to your scum partner at night.

Hmm, if you really dont want to put blame on everyone until the new person gets here, then why are you FOSing me? Sure, everyone else has voted, but in that sense, you stand out to me b/c you havent voted at all. Of course, you want to make sure everyone has a say in the voting and not vote out a townie, but it seems to me that you are really trying to act like a good guy. And dont get me wrong, ur doing a good job, but its a little suspicious on your part. But you seem to be wanting to blame cepi for something he didnt do. It was my bad that i said cepi didnt vote, the person i meant to put down was That One Guy. Cepi really had nothing to do with it. If you had done your research, you would have figured that out. Your "Super Duper FOS" was a pretty stupid move, just showing that you were ready to lynch someone outright, but not wanting to vote right away to try and avoid suspicion

Its in there. In ur famous one-sentence posts.

BTW, where r u, Rishi? Why r u lurking D-2? Every post I read without ur name in the poster section makes you more and more suspicious.