Open 44 - Twofold Mafia: GAME OVER! before 506

[Sikario8]

i gotta keep you around, shaft; you're really good at this. how long have you been playing mafia...?

[shaft.ed]

i gotta keep you around, shaft; you're really good at this. how long have you been playing mafia...?

looks at profile

it says Aug 15 2007 so a little over 3 months.
And buddying up to players just makes you look more scummy

[Sikario8]

::rolls eyes and pouts::
scummy for wanting to protect you...?

[Dasquian]

I know this is putting two carts before the horse, but this course of action seems flawed to me. If the town can remove a killing block from the game that seems to be very largely to there advantage.

Not if it would put us instantly in LYLO! I don't want to discuss all the various possibilities at this point given the decision-making is in the hands of the scum, but I'm sure there are some circumstances in which it's not a good idea to finish off one scum group while another continues killing.

By the time (and if!) we have to make that decision, the situation would be clearer anyway.

[shaft.ed]

I know this is putting two carts before the horse, but this course of action seems flawed to me. If the town can remove a killing block from the game that seems to be very largely to there advantage.

Not if it would put us instantly in LYLO! I don't want to discuss all the various possibilities at this point given the decision-making is in the hands of the scum, but I'm sure there are some circumstances in which it's not a good idea to finish off one scum group while another continues killing.

By the time (and if!) we have to make that decision, the situation would be clearer anyway.

Well I think it's pretty clear now. The only way that Rishi is going to be lynched

because of

Tobi connections is if Tobi is lynched today and comes up scum. This gives us:
5:2:1 going into tonight.
So wcs from this is 3:2:1 then lynching Rishi would give us 3:2 going into nightphase if he is in fact Tobi's partner which is town loss. So you are correct under this one circumstance it is in the town's interest not to lynch Rishi.

But the day could open at 4:2:1 with an overlapping kill or Doc protect, 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 with crosskills or bcs 5:1:0 with a double cross kill. With both of the 0 scenarios assume Rishi was crosskilled so we have 4:2:1 and 4:1:1 with strong Rishi connections. Lynching him and coming up scum would put is in 4:2:0 (LYLO but better than alternatives IMO) or 4:1:0. Lynching him and coming up town would give us 3:2:1 going into night (likely town loss barring incredible luck) or 3:1:1 (prisoner's dilemma barring cross kills). And all of this is assuming we lynch Tobi AND he comes up scum, not certain by any means at this point.

So yeah you're right there may be situations where, if they are paired it'd be better to not lynch, but we'll pretty obviously know that at the time. So I promise not to discuss it further until it's immediately relevant. I just found the comment a little bit strange.

[Rishi]

I like how shaft.ed is just assuming that I am scum. Real classy.

[shaft.ed]

Lynching him and coming up town would give us 3:2:1 going into night (likely town loss barring incredible luck) or 3:1:1 (prisoner's dilemma barring cross kills).

[Tobiassen]

well, now it's time to to be distancing with Rishi then.

so

Vote: Rishi

[Tobiassen]

ok, maybe not

unvote

vote Dasquian

my reasons are my own.

[Tobiassen]

bahhhh, why aint there an edit button in here.

[Rishi]

I've kind of gotten locked into a situation where either I could continue to defend Tobiassen - which would make you all believe I'm his partner. I could attack him - which would make you all believe I am bussing him. Or I could ignore him - which would make you all believe I am consciously trying to avoid the issue to make the connection more tenuous.

After Dasquian's post, which pointed out the numerous suspicious things that Tobiassen did, it made me wonder. I did a re-read and he did look a lot more scummy than I originally thought. After this last little flurry of posts, I can honestly see him as scum.

However, what I really don't like is how shaft.ed is trying to set me up for a lynch tomorrow. Yes, he is making qualified statements, but it seems as though, if Tobiassen is lynched today, turns up scum, and if I am alive tomorrow, he's trying to lead the town down a path towards lynching me. Sure, he'll go through a bunch of discussion tomorrow and pretend that he is giving us a fresh perspective - but the seed is planted. This is something that I consistently see scum do - set up chain lynches. If you want to look town, worry about today's lynch and not tomorrow's.

New scum list: aioqwe, shaft.ed, TylerJ, Tobiassen
New town list: Me, Sikario8, Claus, Dasquian, pwayne66

And...

Vote: Tobiassen

[pwayne66]

...that's lynch -1. We can deal with the Tobi/Rishi scumpairing thing tomorrow. (its a moot point until Tobi turns up scum.) Want to claim Tobi?

[Tobiassen]

I aint scum, that's just the case, i play sucky online thats it O.o

love being at lynch -1 tbh, makes me wanna unvote and vote myself,

[Tobiassen]

Unvote, Vote Rishi

[shaft.ed]

OK, Rishi I see your play as an indicator against you being aligned with Tobi. Bus'ing your scummate in this game is quite dangerous especially considering the situation you are in. I still think you are linked but less certain than before.

In regards to Tobi, I myself am ready to hammer, his weird crap with the Rishi/Dasq voting is just more confusion. He is clearly playing antitown and I suspect his alignment is as such. I would ask however that no one drop the hammer until we hear a bit more from aoiqwe since he's said he's busy with exams for a bit. I feel he has especially flown under the radar today and would like to hear more before it comes to an end.

However, what I really don't like is how shaft.ed is trying to set me up for a lynch tomorrow. Yes, he is making qualified statements, but it seems as though, if Tobiassen is lynched today, turns up scum, and if I am alive tomorrow, he's trying to lead the town down a path towards lynching me...

If you want to look town, worry about today's lynch and not tomorrow's

.

I've been pushing for Tobi's lynch since he was Max and I think he was the right play yesterday on D1. You maintained a vote on lordy because "no better bandwagon" was apparent. Today I have also stated that I think Tobi is the best lynch and, given the votes thus far logged, I am almost certain he will swing today. I thus think that it is in our best interest to find other scum candidates and since we are working at just under %50 chance there are good odds of finding more. If the town is lucky we might influence a scum crosskill. Since I am operating under the premise that Tobi is scum, I think it makes sense to find possible links to him in order to weed out his partner.

[Sikario8]

::starts to sweat::

Who's going to kill'im...?

::looks over to Claus::

[aioqwe]

I think the majority of us had suspicions of ckillor.

touche. I think the majority of us thought that Korlash was less scummy ckillor. I think it's plausible that someone still found Korlash scummy.

Like rishi said, whatever you adds further evidence to the fact that you are tob's partner. I'm not voting yet because shaft wants to hear more from me, is this satisfying?

On a separate note

assuming sik is true which w/o a counterclaim, I'm going with it...
clause- townie, even though he's voting for me and has a scary avatar... GH was too inactive near the end so I've almost completely forgotten him... When I get a chance to re-read I'll cover him...
tyler- I did a quick re-read of the the arguments against him... I don't think they are quite strong. I do think that he could be more helpful...
dasq- some fishiness in behavior... I think he might be scum but I've run out of scum slots...
shaft- I feel he's making a pretty good effort at hunting scum (the other team). Getting rishi in line for a kill tom. is scummy too.
pwayne- too many questions, too iffy... I guess it's kind of like what I've done but
tob- scum per previous post
rishi-ditto

I'm pointing out some stuff that re-iterative... doesn't mean I just copied it off your post...

Still need to reread Jdoge...

[Rishi]

I think the majority of us had suspicions of ckillor.

touche. I think the majority of us thought that Korlash was less scummy ckillor. I think it's plausible that someone still found Korlash scummy.

Like rishi said, whatever you adds further evidence to the fact that you are tob's partner. I'm not voting yet because shaft wants to hear more from me, is this satisfying? :D

On a separate note

assuming sik is true which w/o a counterclaim, I'm going with it...
clause- townie, even though he's voting for me and has a scary avatar... GH was too inactive near the end so I've almost completely forgotten him... When I get a chance to re-read I'll cover him...
tyler- I did a quick re-read of the the arguments against him... I don't think they are quite strong. I do think that he could be more helpful...
dasq- some fishiness in behavior... I think he might be scum but I've run out of scum slots...
shaft- I feel he's making a pretty good effort at hunting scum (the other team). Getting rishi in line for a kill tom. is scummy too.
pwayne- too many questions, too iffy... I guess it's kind of like what I've done but
tob- scum per previous post
rishi-ditto

I'm pointing out some stuff that re-iterative... doesn't mean I just copied it off your post...

Still need to reread Jdoge...

That's six people you find scummy for four slots. Interesting.

And re-reading JDodge is a short read.

[Rishi]

Oh, by the way, I think Tobiassen should claim.

We can discuss whether we should do any counterclaiming afterwards (but we probably shouldn't).

[shaft.ed]

Oh, by the way, I think Tobiassen should claim.

We can discuss whether we should do any counterclaiming afterwards (but we probably shouldn't).

I don't think I will take Tob's claim with much weight, so I really don't care what he claims.

touche. I think the majority of us thought that Korlash was less scummy ckillor. I think it's plausible that someone still found Korlash scummy.

Good point. I wasn't in game for Korlash's actual posting, but he did come across protown to me in a reread. And one of ckillor's major faults was lurking which Korlash is physically incapable of doing.

Like rishi said, whatever you adds further evidence to the fact that you are tob's partner. I'm not voting yet because shaft wants to hear more from me, is this satisfying?

Sorry this might have gotten confused in translation, but are you saying Tobi is my partner and I've been trying to get him lynched since mid D1? And yes thanks for posting I think you've added a couple insights to the game.

[Rishi]

Oh, by the way, I think Tobiassen should claim.

We can discuss whether we should do any counterclaiming afterwards (but we probably shouldn't).

I don't think I will take Tob's claim with much weight, so I really don't care what he claims.

I agree, but if he's a cop (and we find out that he's really a cop after he dies), we'll want his Night 1 investigation result.

[shaft.ed]

Oh, by the way, I think Tobiassen should claim.

We can discuss whether we should do any counterclaiming afterwards (but we probably shouldn't).

I don't think I will take Tob's claim with much weight, so I really don't care what he claims.

I agree, but if he's a cop (and we find out that he's really a cop after he dies), we'll want his Night 1 investigation result.

Good point

[Tobiassen]

I doubt anyone would believe me if i claimed my role, would look like I'm trying to escape out the easy way.

[somestrangeflea]

Here, have some votes...

Tobiassen - 4 (Sikario8, Dasquian, TylerJ, Rishi)
aioqwe - 1 (Claus)
Rishi - 1 (Tobiassen)

Not Voting - pwayne66, aioqwe, shaft.ed

9 alive, 5 to lynch.

I'm gonna be busy for a few days. I'll try to keep up with updates, but normal broadcasting should be resumed by Friday at the latest.

[shaft.ed]

Claus, i couldn't help but notice you post in the MD forum talking about "what to do with scummy newbies." You mentioned that you will usually "just jump on the bandwagon." So what is it about Tobi that makes you think he is a newb and not scum?