Mini 1859: D&D Curse of Strahd Mafia - Game Over

[Shaziro]

I tend to expect claims of a specific piece of fluff to lead to counterclaims if they're counter-claimable because catching a liar like that is easy scumcatching. That said, you'll notice I agree that it was pretty useless speculation, in that I went in for giving Pine the item.

Currently, my best suspects are Dunn, Creature, and SlySly. Dunn has shown to be hypocritical, which I -hate- and always think is very scummy because town really doesn't have a reason not to follow their own "rules". I also really dislike his reasoning for wanting to lynch Pine. Creature has been active, but I can't decide how much of it is just noise, and I can easily see him being purposefully more active because he knows there are people here who would call him out for scummy inactivity, given that I've nailed him on it before (ignore the fact that we lost that game because I didn't go hard enough on the fact that he was being scummily inactive). I'm back and forth on him. SlySly is only a slight lean, partly because he seems to be showing inconsistency. He says that he feels like Pine and I are showing a "slight team up", when if anything I was "teaming up" with Wazza much more in our mutual nerding over what the item was and might do, and us being cryptic. It seemed like him wanting to find a reason to throw shade, and then he turned around and found a reason to go after Jason that wasn't related to that at all, and was instead because "I don't like that he didn't want us to go elsewhere, bad tone".

P-edit: Pine, the thing is, you might be the wrong one of the two you listed, in which case the special thing wouldn't really apply to you and you probably wouldn't see it. Don't claim your specific class, but keep that in mind.

P-edit 2 Electric Boogaloo: I was here suspecting you'd give a reason after I answered your question.

[JasonWazza]

Oh and I'm, just on another thought, remembering JasonWazza coming in trying to call people scum for wanting to go to the shops and the woods. His delivery and tone with it all set off my scumdar.

How exactly does that make me scum?

What part of the delivery was "off"?

VOTE: drealmerz7

[culted]

@Shaz
When did your Dunn read develop specifically?

[Pine]

VOTE: Pine

It's my understanding that the item passes on, on a lynch, before the night phase, and so can still be used. The person gets to select where the item goes. Let's kill Pine to see if scum took it for themselves, and if they're town they get to select who gets the item.

VOTE: Dunnstral

You're literally saying "Town helped him get this item, now let's lynch him to see if he is actually town or not." That's terrible, and I can't even fathom how that would ever come from a town mindset.

I could get down with this.

Why is nobody asking me why I'm voting shaz?

Don't care.

I could go for a Dunn lynch, but I'm more inclined to give a vig shoot him, if there is one.

Vigilante, please shoot Dunnstral. We need to resolve the Miller thing eventually, and vig shots are more expendable than lynches.

[culted]

You should care, pine.

Jason, I disagree with your vote. How are you reading shaziro atm?

[culted]

Vigs have free reign on kuroi, dunn and brantz. Keep the game moving and I bet there's one scum in those three.

[Shaziro]

You re-voted for Kuror, both of which were blank votes in the first place, and earlier asked somebody else to explain their reason for giving Pine their vote. I don't like hypocrisy in games, because it's rarely a town mindset.

Right here.

[SlySly]

Oh and I'm, just on another thought, remembering JasonWazza coming in trying to call people scum for wanting to go to the shops and the woods. His delivery and tone with it all set off my scumdar.

How exactly does that make me scum?

What part of the delivery was "off"?

VOTE: drealmerz7

I didn't say it made you scum. It just set off my scumdar. This is basically the semi-RVS. I went through what has jumped out at me thus far in the game. When you came in talking about those wanting to go to the woods or the shops being scum(my), it came off like you were trying to project you knew something no one else did about the shops and the woods. The rules said everything was semi-random and not going to match up exactly with the lore. To me, knowing what the mod stated in the rules, it seemed like scum trying to throw shade.

If it weren't for the following way of thinking, I'd change my vote to Dunn because of what he's said since my vote combined with his miller claim. Because of the following, I'm fine with where my vote is until something with more weight catches my attention.

I could go for a Dunn lynch, but I'm more inclined to give a vig shoot him, if there is one.

Vigilante, please shoot Dunnstral. We need to resolve the Miller thing eventually, and vig shots are more expendable than lynches.

[SlySly]

Why is nobody asking me why I'm voting shaz?

Why are you voting shaz?

[culted]

You re-voted for Kuror, both of which were blank votes in the first place, and earlier asked somebody else to explain their reason for giving Pine their vote. I don't like hypocrisy in games, because it's rarely a town mindset.

Right here.

That's a pretty weak tell to apply to someone who to be scum would have to have fakeclaimed miller in a role-heavy setup.

Was there reason for you to believe that his asking for reasoning on a pine vote may have come before a time where he was still unsure of exactly what we were voting for/what was going on from the point up until he voted kuror without much thought behind it?

Or is it more likely scum just tripping over their own principles.

I guess to rephrase the question; was there no change in circumstance to your eye between these three votes?

[Shaziro]

I agree, being a hypocrite on it's own isn't proof that somebody is scum. More often that not though, scum are hypocritical. So it's a good early warning. This is why he's a suspect, and I'm not calling for a Dunn lynch just yet. Also, I don't know how he could not be sure what we were voting for? It's fairly clearly described in the mod posts, and nobody else seemed particularly confused?

[JasonWazza]

Jason, I disagree with your vote. How are you reading shaziro atm?

Not entirely sure yet, but i don't think he is today's lynch at all, and he would be one i wouldn't vote unless something major comes up.

[SlySly]

Creature, have you played a previous game with every player in this game?

[culted]

Why are you voting shaz?

Short answer is fake gamesolving but gimme some time with him then I'll know if I need to get longwinded.

[culted]

Also, I don't know how he could not be sure what we were voting for? It's fairly clearly described in the mod posts, and nobody else seemed particularly confused?

Well that was only one example, if you want to subscribe scum-motive to having a different thought process behind a few different votes, I'd like to know why you think that the change in process from asking why someone was voting for someone to get an item earlier on vs he himself voting later on naked couldn't possibly be a genuine trajectory brought on by ... realizations ... not giving a care ... thinking about things a little bit more.

I'm just looking to understand where you're coming from on your stances, no need to start waffling already. I will note that you not having a vote out there despite having scumreads troubles me somewhat.

[culted]

Jason, I disagree with your vote. How are you reading shaziro atm?

Not entirely sure yet, but i don't think he is today's lynch at all, and he would be one i wouldn't vote unless something major comes up.

So he's not a townread, but you're hardpressed to lynch him.

Can I ask why? Are we rreally to lazy to use google for flavor stuff?

[Shaziro]

Also, I don't know how he could not be sure what we were voting for? It's fairly clearly described in the mod posts, and nobody else seemed particularly confused?

Well that was only one example, if you want to subscribe scum-motive to having a different thought process behind a few different votes, I'd like to know why you think that the change in process from asking why someone was voting for someone to get an item earlier on vs he himself voting later on naked couldn't possibly be a genuine trajectory brought on by ... realizations ... not giving a care ... thinking about things a little bit more.

I'm just looking to understand where you're coming from on your stances, no need to start waffling already. I will note that you not having a vote out there despite having scumreads troubles me somewhat.

I think him expecting people to give explanation for votes, but then giving votes with no explanation whatsoever is hypocritical. Do you disagree?
I think hypocrisy is a sign of scumminess. This makes him a suspect in my mind.

I don't see how any of that is waffling, I'd like you to explain what I've done that you take as waffling.

Meanwhile, like I said, they're suspects. When I form a more firm read, I'll throw my vote there. Until then, we've got a while left in this day.

[culted]

I think him expecting people to give explanation for votes, but then giving votes with no explanation whatsoever is hypocritical. Do you disagree?
I think hypocrisy is a sign of scumminess. This makes him a suspect in my mind.

I don't see how any of that is waffling, I'd like you to explain what I've done that you take as waffling.

Stay with me shaziro. It's fine to find hypocrisies scummy. It's not fine to distinguish scummy hypocrisy from forgivable ones without explaining to me why you think the change in thought process doesn't make sense from a town-mindset.

Saying "I'm not even pushing dunn" is what I was referring to. Hedging was probably the more appropriate term there.

[Shaziro]

Ok, but like I said, I think it's possible for town to be hypocritical too. But it's an early warning sign that I tend to heed, so when I see it, I call it out and keep my eye on that person. But I assumed you were saying that me saying it's scummy must mean I think he's scum, which just isn't true. I think that he's shown one of the early warning signs, but a false positive is possible, if that makes sense. I was trying to clarify my position on my suspicions.

[culted]

Ok, but like I said, I think it's possible for town to be hypocritical too.

But you called dunn scummy for that particular hypocrisy.

Anyone else noticing the circles?

Shaz can talk setup all day but can't keep one read straight.

[Shaziro]

...Yes. Scummy. It's a scummy thing to do. Scummy =/= Scum

And yes, I can talk for hours about the base material and whatnot. I just recently finished a Curse of Strahd campaign, and therefore the content of it is still very fresh to me. Given that this game is based in that, I figure it's kinda useful to have, and it seems like a lot of you don't know the material.

[culted]

Okay so if it was scummy then can you explain why the hypocrisy (IE - change in mindset) makes more sense to come from scum?

This is the one part that you can't seem to answer.

I don't know the source material at all this decision was complete compulsion but so far I'm having fun. Cool that I missed the boring part of the game as well.

[Dunnstral]

You're literally saying "Town helped him get this item, now let's lynch him to see if he is actually town or not." That's terrible, and I can't even fathom how that would ever come from a town mindset.

Actually, I said the opposite. Replace the words town with scum

[Dunnstral]

Shadowez is in this game?

[Dunnstral]

Also not sure what happened to my quote