Mini 1856 - This Mafia Game is for pieguyn (Game Over)

[mhsmith0]

So; question. Why is it that you were voting for what was essentially an RVS vote for so long during this game? Like, did you just have no other reads strong enough?

Pretty much, which is why I'm not voting now. I also dislike it when people aren't participating at all, and didn't really mind vote parking on you for a while.

[Aeronaut]

Aero why not claim miller in your opening post if you were going to do it?
I explained the pisskop vote later, keep reading.

pointless question

Again... not really.

RLv1.0

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

{T} pieguyn [T: 34, 79]

{NT} pisskop [T: 74]
{NT} Dwlee99 [T: 108]
{NT} beeboy [NI: 19][T: 278]
{NT} mhsmith0 [NT: 9][T: 327]

{N} Luna Fox
{N} Nahdia [NT: 217]
{N} Wisdom [NT: 263]

{NS} drealmerz7 [S: 344]
{NS} SirCakez [S: 98, 116][T: 240]

{LS} Gamma Emerald [S: 64, 72* 255]
{LS} Varsoon [S: 216*, 231/232*]

Could you clarify your reads on:
Gamma 64 - seems null to me; why would a wolf be particularly motivated to shade a PR claim in that spot?
Dwlee 108 - that seems basically null, especially since there was no real follow-up on it (had been vote-parking on varsoon, doesn't really push anyone from the observation, just makes it and moves on to a different topic)
SC 240 - seems like a nullish post from SC; what's the clear town in it?
Gamma 255 - MAYBE NS, but honestly seems more bad than anything else

Gamma 64 - It's throwing shade on a PR with shit reasoning, which feels kind of shitty to me because it opens the door for gamma to disregaurd/discredit what Pie says later on. More importantly though, I feel like throwing shade like that is almost always scum-driven regardless, because gamma is expecting us to agree with that idea later on, and not hold too much responsibility to gamma in the first place if that makes sense.

Dwlee 108 - he's saying that it's silly to analyze whether I'm town or not based on wagon speed, which is completely accurate. I feel like it would have been pretty easy for scum to let that conversation go for two pages getting nobody anywhere.

[Just a sidenote, I tend to townread people for making sensicle posts, because I feel like while town definitely isn't always using common sense, it seems like scum usually spends more time creating fabricated reasoning instead of common sense reasoning]

SC 240 - At the time I was also reading Drealz as low-hanging fruit and thought that scum would be more likely to just jump right the fuck onto that wagon.

Gamma 255 - Actually, I'm going to fully disagree with you here. this post is awfully sus because it's a clear misrep/exaggeration of what wisdom is doing, and then trying to vote him. I don't see town being that blatantly wrong. I'll give you that a lot of Gamma's posting this game could just be from badtown, but this one is pretty clear scum to me.

also, fixed that quote ^^

[drealmerz7]

i've recently come to the realization that my catchup-style of posting in games is probably annoying as fuck and hard to sift through. I'm only really at my computer during the night though to read shit, so I don't really know what else to do.

I love it and is how I play a lot of times depending

[Gamma Emerald]

What?
64: I don't suspect the claim right now, I just made that comment because I thought it might be something to note, as well as possibly draw some scum into jumping on it.
255: IIRC this was my case on Wisdom. I figured the selective ISO was a lie to cover for himself.

[mhsmith0]

Aero why not claim miller in your opening post if you were going to do it?

seems pretty pointless to me. It's generically optimal miller play to do it, but that doesn't mean everyone does it, and it doesn't mean that the guy who made two shit posts and nothing else was sufficiently engaged in the game to expect optimal play.

Also, if you were scum you'd have a reasonable answer (no way does THAT question catch anyone other than a total newb flat-footed), which means that it's hard to see it as a question that's going to lean to any kind of readable moment. It's not quite "are you scum" level, but it's not much better than that either.

[SirCakez]

Aero do you still think dreal is low hanging fruit?

[beeboy]

While Drealz is here can he explain his Pisskop, Wisdom and Dwlee scum reads?

Fixed

:<

[mhsmith0]

Dwlee 108 - he's saying that it's silly to analyze whether I'm town or not based on wagon speed, which is completely accurate. I feel like it would have been pretty easy for scum to let that conversation go for two pages getting nobody anywhere.

[Just a sidenote, I tend to townread people for making sensicle posts, because I feel like while town definitely isn't always using common sense, it seems like scum usually spends more time creating fabricated reasoning instead of common sense reasoning]

meh. competent wolves are decent at making sensible posts. what pings me as plausible scum play here is that there's no follow-up. He makes the point that wagon speed analysis is bad and then stops caring about it. Which is weird because if he's arguing against a defense of you based on wagon speed, then it'd make sense to actually evaluate your wagon in some kind of meaningful manner. Instead he just goes back to "vote varsoon", which if he's a wolf is a nice way to look like he's doing something without actually having to do anything of substance.
Now, if he's town then he was just being a bit lazy with the point he was making, which is also possible, which is why it's null in my mind. "He was reasonable in this one minor point" is IMO a poor reason for a substantive read on him.

[mhsmith0]

Also

So then why the vote?

I didnt like the way you pitted me and pisskop against each other in one of your posts when you said one of us has to be scum.

was a bit reachy.

[Wisdom]

Why? I agreed with him that cakez post was awful

[Aeronaut]

So pushing me for "making a bunch of mistakes and not reading his posts" is not BoP and not Mirepresentation
Damn guess i need to go to the road to rome and relearn mafia wording then.

I am also scum reading you for your Gamma read and town reading me for no reason.

>When your wisdom read is based on something even more fakeable specially if it's Wis
>Townreading you for no reason >When i explained my reason
Yeah it probably was a bad reason since i can see now that my read was wrong.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... &sr=topics

It almost hurts me how new Gamma is.
How can you possibly think Gamma is a new player?

Gamma is absolutely a new player. But that's NAI, so why do you care?

so here's a point I want to make about Aero's miller claim: I think he definitely true claimed his *role*, and GIF has told me in a private convo a while back when discussing mod practices that it was unlikely he would ever use a mafia miller in a game because he sees no point in it as a role. the thing is, this is a game that was apparently designed entirely to fuck with me.

if I'm being honest, I actually feel a bit more comfortable thinking a level above that and considering the miller claim as town because GIF would expect me to see it and think "o god, GIF put a mafia miller in the game to fuck with me", but that's pretty unreliable.

I mean in fairness, I wouldn't townread me just because of some convo you had with GIF.

what ai thing has varsoon done, cakez?

Varsoon is pushing the same slot for shitty reasons and has been all game.

1. Survivability from the lynch.
2. To draw the scum kill.

I really don't see the town utility for you to mention these two things, especially the second thing.

However, since scum players don't have to worry about drawing a kill,

I mean, that's not really true. We don't know the setup of this game. It's day 1. If I (or anyone) is scum, I shut the fuck up until I know who can kill what and when.

If you're scum, you'll be lynched before LYLO regardless.

And that's why you shouldn't still be harping on it, but somehow still are.

I'm not going to respond to any of the rest of your post for obvious reasons. It doesn't even really make sense for you to post all of that as town in the first place, because it's not like your planning on pushing it. I thought you said my claim made more sense for scum, and that's why I asked. I feel like it would have been really easy for you to realize that hmm maybe that's he meant and maybe I shouldn't go giving all possible reasons why someone would only claim half their role.

I'm going to conclude this conversation for good by saying while your reasons make sense, they are also confirmable later in the game.

[Aeronaut]

@SC yea and no. Nothing he's done has made me think he's town, but Varsoon's push on him is weird, tunnelly, and fallacious. That makes Varsoon a better lynch.

[Aeronaut]

Beeboy what is the Drealz scum case ?

[mhsmith0]

Why? I agreed with him that cakez post was awful

You think he was trying to actively pit dwlee and pisskop against each other by saying "one has to be scum"? That just seems like a strange read on what could easily be an off-hand comment or casual read of a moment where it did look plausible that one of the two was a wolf.

[mhsmith0]

I really don't see the town utility for you to mention these two things, especially the second thing.

This part I agree with. What do you think of him pushing the notion that you somehow did it for survivability, despite your wagon having long since collapsed when you made the post?

[Wisdom]

but what was there to warrant "one of those two is scum" from cakez?

[Aeronaut]

As a simple example, I look at Varsoon's 744 and it displays a pretty profound lack of thread awareness given that he's pushing an argument that makes zero sense given what was actually happening. It's derpy enough to maybe be town (since scum would probably know basic stuff like "what was actually happening around the events that I'm talking about) but idk if Varsoon is any good at faking that sort of thing, or is actually derpy as scum.

I really feel like Varsoon is a good player though. He's not going around making those mistakes by accident.

I just remembered i promised some links but i kinda need to go to work like right now so i'll do that when i get back.
Please remind me and dont let me forget again, thanks.

And beeboy is 0 for 1.

I would love for you to find a game where you fail to read someone's read list and proceed to push them about there reads.

Except that's not what i did here.
First, I never pushed Aero, i was wondering why he was ignoring me.
Second, I was talking about his opinions during the catchup not his reads list. look at 473, Do you see me talking about reads in there?

I'd like to think that somewhere in the next ten pages, this conversation has finally finished, but honestly, what is the scum motivation in me ignoring you? Unless we were buddies, and we're not, because I would have lynched three or four PR's at this point and won the game by now

[mhsmith0]

but what was there to warrant "one of those two is scum" from cakez?

two completely empty votes in relatively quick succession. I've seen "oh one of these is a wolf" responses to that before (though it's stronger when there's three of those kinds of votes), so it strikes me more as a reasonable reaction ot the quick empty votes as opposed to some kind of devious plan to somehow manipulate two low posters into going at each other hard.

[pieguyn]

Cakez-kun saw a significant momentum swing onto someone who he thought was 1. probably town and 2. a really easy target for scum to push. assuming there's scum somewhere in it isn't "lining up lynches", it's completely understandable.

[Aeronaut]

Wisdom is incredibly towny on page 32

in case anyone care

[beeboy]

Beeboy what is the Drealz scum case ?

I think he is trying to make me and Luna 1v1 more and he has yet to explain his reads from page 22.

[pieguyn]

frankly, if I was to lynch drealz, it wouldn't be for anything beeboy is posting about him, most of which I find silly; it would be mostly because I'd feel like an idiot if I failed to listen to my kindred spirit for the third fucking game in a row.

[drealmerz7]

yeah that was all me

I gave my read on the whole thing AFTER IT WAS OVER (so I hoped)

you are one of the scummiest scum evaer

[Wisdom]

Dont you think scum cakez could easily make the same sort of comment on two votes on a percieved lynchbait?

I dont like the certainty in it, why couldnt both votes be town, especially if he thinks dreal is likely to attract town votes?

[drealmerz7]

... it would be mostly because I'd feel like an idiot if I failed to listen to my kindred spirit for the third fucking game in a row.

explain?