Mini 523 - Game Over!

[charter]

Vote Count

Thanatos (3)

- Gorgon, Disciple Slayer, VampyreLord
liamcool (2) - charter, Thanatos
Dark_Lady_Shaiann (1) - Nudude

Not Voting (3) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, Infinitive, liamcool

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

VL's post seems like it was concocted in about a minute, where he just picks random posts by people to quote and give a meaningless opinion about them. He quotes half the people playing but doesn't say anything substantial about one of them. His vote seems unbased to me. He doesn't make a cohesive case against anyone, but makes half a dozen terrible cases against random people.

Ooops, hadn't read page 25 when I made that last post, after reading it I do think nudude could be scum as well.

This is a pretty idiotic and spur of the moment thing too, but I'll let it go as maybe you were rushing to make a post or something.

I just didn't check to see if I'd gotten to the end of the thread, I just stopped at the bottom of page 24. After reading 25, All I really had to add was added suspicion of nudude, which is pretty much gone now.

I think we should lean more towards people like Gorgon and charter (in terms of questioning and investigating, anyway). In this day, all they've done is accuse me of being scum, with a lot of emphasis on me and very little on anybody else (compartively). Also, charter has flown under nearly everyone's scumdar, which Infinitive commented on twice, early in the day on posts 495 and 502. Gorgon, though, I'm less suspicious of, because although he did seem to be very focused on killing me earlier, he has gone on to discuss other people.

There's a good reason all I've done is accuse you of being scum, you're the most suspicious person and you're doing a poor job of explaining yourself. I don't really think I need to build three seperate cases at the same time, one or maybe two should suffice for today. Just because I'm not going after everyone else, doesn't mean I'm not forming opinions on what I think their role is.

Charter, on the other hand, just continuously, needlessly, suspects me.

It's needless to suspect you? Alarm bells are ringing.

In 544, he fabricates facts based on some misunderstanding he made with not reading Infinitive's posts on day 1.

Beg pardon, Charter, i just want a little clarification, because I'm not sure if I need to explain myself or not.

Around 430 when infinitive votes for liamcool, I think he liamcool thought that DT wasnt actually going to end up lynched, and he switched right over to liamcool when he even admitted to not finiding liamcool very suspicious. He just wanted to be on the next bandwagon early enough so as to avoid suspicion.

Are you saying that I switched over to the next bandwagon or Liamcool did? Meh, regardless, I might as well explain myself, even though I'm pretty my vote post did that pretty well.

Hmmm, now that I go back and reread around 430, I can't find where infinitive voted for liamcool at all. I was basing it off of DTs post 431 and infinitives 429 where I guess I just infered it from infinitive's saying he's 90% sure DT is scum and I must of assumed this meant he would be voting for DT.

(more to come later as thoughts continue to come to my head. Is double posting under these circumstances accepted or not?)

I think we already went over this...

[charter]

@liamcool, if you want people that "fly under the radar" try looking at VL. He has a whopping 18 posts, about a third of them don't add anything to the town's pool of knowledge, and another third are (at least to me) trivial and don't help the town find scum. He has maybe five posts I'd say that have some slim scumhunting in them. He hasn't done any scumhunting since he posted some vague suspicions around the random vote phase.

I really don't have a read at all on him because he's been a non-factor in the game so far. He also really hasn't said anything for me to react to, so I guess I'll just ask you (VL) to post some substantial information on who you think are scum, and also elaborate (a lot) on why you're voting for thanatos.

[Gorgon]

Whoa, VL uses the same dodgy "DLS said 'I lied' and lying is bad!" argument that DS uses. Don't like it.

The reason I voted for you is because I think your scum trying to get townies lynched and NK'ed. The evidence is because you continue to refuse to do any scum hunting, or even make a compromise. Further evidence is many posts in you make in your defense, the one that I first noticed being the long post you made in reply to DS's accusation, and the very few (if any) posts you use to hunt scum.

While I agree that DLS has been extremely defensive, how does this further an agenda of getting townies lynched? Just for clarification, please.

I'm not going to vote for you yet, because the day is still young, but rest assured that it will be there when we're done checking other people out.

So, you're going to look at other people, but still vote him when you're done with that? 'Cause that's how this reads to me. Why not just vote him now? This seems a little off to me. I agree with the rest of your post, though.

[Thanatos]

Ok, in hindsight, I don't have much to say about VL, except that all he really did was agree with DS and ignore the point behind DLS' "lie" which was nothing, and claim my vote, which had already moved off of DS an OMGUS. It felt, to me at least, like he was less giving his opinion, and more saying "Let's do what DS said." But I digress.

As for Liam, first I'll say that I agree largely with Infinitive's analysis. Mainly in the fact that all Liam did in his first post was say "People who suspect me are scummy, and should be looked at" which is silly, though not scummy in and of it self. Well, let me restate that. It's scummy, but it's stupid scummy. then again, there's no such move as something "too stupid to be scum."

Gorgon has a point, though. Why not just vote him?

[Nudude]

Whoa, VL uses the same dodgy "DLS said 'I lied' and lying is bad!" argument that DS uses. Don't like it.

The reason I voted for you is because I think your scum trying to get townies lynched and NK'ed. The evidence is because you continue to refuse to do any scum hunting, or even make a compromise. Further evidence is many posts in you make in your defense, the one that I first noticed being the long post you made in reply to DS's accusation, and the very few (if any) posts you use to hunt scum.

While I agree that DLS has been extremely defensive, how does this further an agenda of getting townies lynched? Just for clarification, please.

I'm not going to vote for you yet, because the day is still young, but rest assured that it will be there when we're done checking other people out.

So, you're going to look at other people, but still vote him when you're done with that? 'Cause that's how this reads to me. Why not just vote him now? This seems a little off to me. I agree with the rest of your post, though.

I was just clarifying the difference betweens reasons and evidence.

The reason scum do anything is because they are trying to get townies killed. The evidence is in their posts.

Does that clear things up?

[Infinitive]

Why am I not voting for Liam yet? 2 reasons, really.

#1 is that, as DT noted, we probably have 3 scum to find. I'm certain that Liam is one. I'd like to find out who the other two are; if we can find someone we think is certainly scum today, I may vote for him/her, just because I'm so sure that Liam IS scum. He'll get lynched eventually, and I'm in no hurry if we find someone else to lynch first. He really isn't doing anything right now that confounds or confuses us, so I don't feel immediately threatened by his presence when we know that there are more scum (or maybe a SK) out there.

#2 is that if I throw my vote on someone, my questioning is less potent, as I've announced before, and intend to stick with, the philosophy of voting once each day and sticking with it. As long as I haven't dropped that, I can keep the threat open.

[VampyreLord]

First, I'm gonna role-claim as cop. I'm doing this because I inspected liamcool last night and he was innocent. People look like they're close on lynching him, and I don't want to lynch another town.
And Thanatos, where'd your vote move? The top of 26 says it's on DS, and it hasn't been changed since then as far as I can see...

[Thanatos]

I voted for Liamcool days ago....wait, what? You just roleclaimed cop...with an Innocent...who had 2 votes.....ARGH! What the fuck is with this game?!

WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU ROLECLAIM COP TO CLEAR AN INNOCENT WITH NO DOC?!

[charter]

First, I'm gonna role-claim as cop. I'm doing this because I inspected liamcool last night and he was innocent. People look like they're close on lynching him, and I don't want to lynch another town.
And Thanatos, where'd your vote move? The top of 26 says it's on DS, and it hasn't been changed since then as far as I can see...

Yeah, that was incredibly stupid. Oh well, time to go off and look for scum elsewhere.

[charter]

unvote liamcool

until further review. Kind of late right now.

[Thanatos]

Yeah...I can't believe a scum would do it like that, so I guess I believe him...unless something big happens,

unvote

God damn it..

[Nudude]

Holy macaroni.....VL while I appreciate you made a sacrifice to save a townie....I'd hardly say liamcool was close to lynching, suspected yes but definetely too early to say. TBH, if you had investigated me and found me innocent, I'd rather you let me hang than out yourself just to save me, especially with the knowledge the doc is dead.

I get the feeling we're going to get to D3 with no pro townie power roles left. If on the off chance there is another power role DO NOT CLAIM unless the world is going to explode (lol).

[Infinitive]

Wow... we're really screwed if VL is telling the truth. He's gonna get NK'd for sure now, with the doc dead.

Just to speak up, I'd like to voice the possibility that VL is lying... though this would be kind of a dumb move for a scum, all they have to do is protect their own for today- if we lynch a townie and both nightkills hit town (and presuming DT was right in his estimation of 3 scum), we're sitting at 3 town/3 scum, which means it's game.

Just wanted to note, there's the possibility that this is a power play to try and end the game by keeping two scum from the hangman's noose.

[charter]

I don't really see how we can assess whether or not he's the real cop. I don't think he's given us enough to be able to distinguish if he's telling the truth or not. That said, I guess I have no choice but to believe him, but I do find it highly odd that he's going to save the two most suspicious people (in my mind anyways).

[Gorgon]

Ugh. VL, that was completely uncalled for. You don't ever come out as a cop just to save one innocent,

especially

if the doc is dead. For one thing, there is such a thing as a Godfather, which liamcool could easily be.

Yes, I am assuming VL is telling the truth, because false-claiming a common role is ridiculously risky. I'm not going to be part of the same mistake we made yesterday; I argued then, correctly, that I felt it was unlikely that the real doc would stay hidden.

Plus, VL wasn't even under any pressure.

[Thanatos]

Yeah, unless he gets counter claimed (and considering that we MAY be at Lylo, you should just do it if you can) I believe, yet am angry about, VLs claim.

*sigh*

...Liam cool could be the Godfather, which means all re really know is nothing...Fuck.

[liamcool]

First, I'm gonna role-claim as cop. I'm doing this because I inspected liamcool last night and he was innocent. People look like they're close on lynching him, and I don't want to lynch another town.
And Thanatos, where'd your vote move? The top of 26 says it's on DS, and it hasn't been changed since then as far as I can see...

While I appreciate you sacrificing yourself for me, I would have preferred you not to have done that, for the good of the town. Seriously, it wasn't really a good move, it pretty much guarantees we're both dead during tonight.

[Infinitive]

Hokay. Well, since the wailing and gnashing of teeth over what seems to be a very foolish copclaim are now over, I have to ask the pointed question.

What now?

If we presume that VL is telling the truth, who should we be looking at? If we assume he's lying, what should we do? I'm really not happy with either possibility, and I haven't been in a situation even remotely similar to this before. Anyone got any bright ideas?

[Nudude]

Well here's my two cents.

I'm inclined to believe VL's claim. For a scum to out themselves and a partner because there was some light pressure is an insane play for scum, though mind you, you could argue it was an insane play for a cop to out themselves to prove someone innocent (lol).

I'm leaning to VL being a cop myself.

VL: I don't see any point in lynching him. There is no way scum are going to let a cop live, the confusion it may sow simply doesn't outweigh the ability to not only find scum, but to also prove people innocent.

liamcool: He's been proven innocent, however as some people have pointed out, it could just mean he is the GF. Having a look back through the posts, I can't see anytime anyone seemingly sided with him or supported him at all.

It could be scum are distancing themselves, but I feel at some point somewhere someone would have helped him out, but noone did. Maybe I missed something, and even if I'm 100% right with this it doesn't prove liamcool isn't the GF, but I'm leaning to liamcool being an inexperienced townie.

[charter]

I believe the claim. I'm not the cop and I had no clue as to who was before this, and I can't find a shred of evidence suggesting otherwise, so it's probably true. That being said, of the people I can vote for, there's

DLS
DS
infinitive
nudude
gorgon

I think I'll go back over the thread and look for some clues.

[Thanatos]

Did you forget me, Charter, or do you not think I'm scum?

[charter]

Did you forget me, Charter, or do you not think I'm scum?

Ah crap, I just went to the first page and copied the alive players but didn't get you because SK's name was crossed out. But yes, you're also on my list of people to investigate.

[Infinitive]

I'm going to have to beg everyone's pardon here, but I'm just having a hard time believing VL. It may just be my inexperience talking here; if so, forgive my ignorance.

I pointed out earlier that, given 2 NKs a night, we may be looking at Lynch or Lose here today. Naturally, that's a really bad position for the town to be in, but it's a position we kind of have to accept. The important point is that, given that same information,

the scum know this as well.

Allow me to think out loud.

Let's pretend I'm playing scum and it's quite possibly lynch or lose for the town. One of my scumbuddies, whom I know to be the Godfather, has been acting scummy in the thread. Is it a necessarily bad strategy to falseclaim as a cop, "clearing" my scumbuddy? If he gets lynched, there's no problem; I'm the cop, right, and I investigated him as town. That's what should have happened. Alternately, if my strat works right, I send the town scurrying off looking for the ONE other scum in the game; in all likelihood, they'll mislynch, given the odds. After that, it's one night and LyoL.

I think that this could have been a very shrewd move by VL; he waits to see if the cop comes out and indicts someone. If not, he falseclaims and sets this whole mess up. Obviously, this wouldn't work if he'd been investigated thoroughly, because nobody would believe him if he roleclaimed as part of an interrogation.

Maybe this is just me doing conspiracy theories again, like with DT. Still, I just don't like this claim one bit. It's a little TOO dumb, if you ask me.

[charter]

I don't really buy your theory infinitive. Nothing VL has done this game makes me believe he's capable of concocting such an elaborate plan. I think he's just inexperienced and claimed far too early. Also, I'm of the belief that there is mafia (probably three) and a SK, so if even if we do lynch a townie today, there's a pretty good chance the SK will hit scum tonight, which would give us more time I believe. Of course, if we don't have a SK then none of what I just said matters.

I'll agree, it was very dumb, but unless someone can find some evidence that VL is actually mafia and not just inexperienced, I'm going to continue looking elsewhere.

[Infinitive]

Fair enough- I just like to voice possibilities, and am not a terribly big fan of clearing two people because of one statement in a game whose fundamental foundation is lying like a rug. ^_~