Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[Raskolnikov]

Hoopla, you were null to townreading (loltown) cloud for a lot of the game, is that quote enough to have you think he's the best choice for today?

[Raskolnikov]

I'm surprised you're going along pretty easy with what's happening despite your expressed doubts, and theory on sotty being bussed.

[Raskolnikov]

It's that he's the "obvious lynch candidate" to you, but it's not clear if that's a function of him being the most likely lynch or if you independently think it's the best choice. You've mentioned him the least compared to even your theories and paranoia, so I want to know more about how you came to him as your most obvious choice.

[MariaR]

Creature I've never seen you change your townplay wtf

I'll claim after blackvoid the mafia but none other then that.

[Creature]

Yeah, when the game has ended you become a great scum hunter.

[MariaR]

Yeah, when the game has ended you become a great scum hunter.

HA

[CloudKicker]

@ jacck because my scumgame is to hard defend the most pushed players for 2 day straight, who was completly going to get lynched if not cleared that game, just because being lynched ? i was pretty much apathetic troughout the whole game about her, she outed severals 4+ posts trhowing shit shade on me for the sake of it, included me in almost all her scupool yet not one even try to red the interactions with sotty and i, everyone is poe'ing to me just cause i defend her, i still think the lynch was a bad idea and it only went through cause scum pushed it and knew the flip. No one is defending me in this game, no one is trying to actually read sotty/me. gg 180 no scope strat to hard defend scum when i was virtually townread

[CloudKicker]

just to get lynched*

[CloudKicker]

And rask actually starting to towntell a bit

[BlackVoid]

@Cloud, you recognize that you are a universal scumread so if you want to be helpful, go ahead and claim. We can certainly get more votes on you if needed but if you are town here, it'll be much more expedient to just speed up the process.

[CloudKicker]

@Cloud, you recognize that you are a universal scumread so if you want to be helpful, go ahead and claim. We can certainly get more votes on you if needed but if you are town here, it'll be much more expedient to just speed up the process.

I wont claim and im not scumread, im getting poe'd incorrectly because mafia bussed, jaack do sr me but hes wrong

[MariaR]

^ this isn't scum

[BlackVoid]

You are not getting incorrectly POE'd. You said you'd sheep GreyICE's read on Sotty7. Why would you do that? Just because GreyICE put in work? Well then GreyICE was hard-townreading Rask as well. That didn't seem to deter you from pushing him. So, GreyICE's read only applies to Sotty7? Given she was scum and he wrongly read her as town, that's incredibly convenient.

Then there's your argument that GreyICE was confirmed town and since a confirmed town was telling us Sotty7 was town, we should listen. Well BBT and TwoFace are confirmed town as well and they were both saying Sotty7 was scum. TwoFace was in fact very, very certain about it. Why ignore them and selectively choose to sheep GreyICE's read? You've never played with him before. Is it solely because he described himself as an excellent player? Guess what, so did you and more confident players sheep less. You claimed your reads are top notch. You didn't deliver.

[CloudKicker]

You are not getting incorrectly POE'd. You said you'd sheep GreyICE's read on Sotty7. Why would you do that? Just because GreyICE put in work? Well then GreyICE was hard-townreading Rask as well. That didn't seem to deter you from pushing him. So, GreyICE's read only applies to Sotty7? Given she was scum and he wrongly read her as town, that's incredibly convenient.

Then there's your argument that GreyICE was confirmed town and since a confirmed town was telling us Sotty7 was town, we should listen. Well BBT and TwoFace are confirmed town as well and they were both saying Sotty7 was scum. TwoFace was in fact very, very certain about it. Why ignore them and selectively choose to sheep GreyICE's read? You've never played with him before. Is it solely because he described himself as an excellent player? Guess what, so did you and more confident players sheep less. You claimed your reads are top notch. You didn't deliver.

I said i would, i didnt even actually reread too much into it and both my sotty and rask reads are mine, not greys or anyone else. My reads are great but im still adapting myself to this site and how its played, lynching that pr claim was completely suboptimal cause we wouldve got more infos with the nights and sottys alive, if she was town that is <- that opinion is also a read, and lynching outside would've been better, you dont lynch people that is going to confirm themselves as possibles scum or town the night after on ml.

[BlackVoid]

What about grey hard tr on sotty? What about her just making a stupid track? You are ready to be the 5-6th vote on a pr claim d2 and you dont take into consideration at the bery least 2 towns reads plus maria is town if sotty is town imo, so at best 3 towns? Maybe we could just test the shit out of her, no one even proposed it

You said right here that GreyICE being town and reading Sotty7 as town should be taken into consideration. No mention of TwoFace at all.

[CloudKicker]

Yea ure right, i dont really know why i dismissed it, most likely because i didnt think twoface reads was as hard as grey and maybe because a trs is stronger than a sr in my eyes, also grey made a big scene off of it and got lynched. I think that when ure about to get lynched you can have better reads when universially townread or outside wagons, you can see when ppl pushes on you inccorectly and what is a towntell, like rask towntelling a bit earlier is an exemple of that

[Jaack]

Cloud, everything you say is really just digging you deeper. All your explanations sound like they're made up after-the-fact. You telling me I'm wrong does nothing to change my mind.

It's not PoE that's burying you, it your and sotty's actions throughout the game. So far, I've mainly focused on what you've done in my casemaking against you, but here's something that sotty did as well that I find points to you

Sotty had a cheesy null-scum read on you all game, in fact from 60 (which was, coincidentally the post that made me scumread her in the first place). But then there's this post here:

People are all up in arms about Cloud threatening to hammer me, but he did the same thing with Grey and it could easily be this Epic mafia style or whatever. Creature has now twice jumped onto blooming weak wagons with no thoughts or logic to back up either vote.

This does not look like the mindset of someone who has expressed a mild interest in you as a scum option. First of all, I was the only person particularly concerned with you at the time, so it's certainly an overexaggeration to say you were under significant pressure. The second thing is that you've repeated one of her talking points in your own defense today with regards to your attempts at pulling out claims.

That's a nice segway into my next topic. Claims.
You asked GI to claim in 650.
You asked sotty to claim in 1400.
You asked Hoopla to claim in 1477.
You asked me to claim in 1565. (I was only at L-2 at the time!)

And now you won't claim when it's pretty much consensus that you ought to. I'd say more, but I don't think I really need to extrapolate.

[Hoopla]

It's that he's the "obvious lynch candidate" to you, but it's not clear if that's a function of him being the most likely lynch or if you independently think it's the best choice. You've mentioned him the least compared to even your theories and paranoia, so I want to know more about how you came to him as your most obvious choice.

It's both really.

I think his interactions with Sotty yesterday are suspicious as he claims suspicion for her yet still wants to defend her based on the PR claim, which is an easy way for scum to say they were all for it, but also giving himself out to vote elsewhere. I think this is suspicious given how willing he's been to hammer and get claims throughout the game, yet has found a way to dodge the Sotty wagon.

It may just be the EM playstyle belief regarding PR claims, but he makes sense from a PoE perspective where everyone else except Creature has a better reasons for being town based on their interactions with Sotty. Really, that's the most important thing that's happened in the game, so I'm weighting my opinions more based on how well they work with Sotty now. And put simply, the most universally agreed townreads and the masons were largely responsible for the Sotty wagon. The only blind spot is you or I guess Jack, but it regardless, it's difficult to see both of you as scum, so

at best

, I think there's only one scum on Sotty's wagon and probably none on it, although I have privileged information in knowing I'm town, and as such, can make sweeping conclusions about the wagon much easier as I know I'm still being considered in other's PoE's.

I'm still going over who I want to lynch. I probably won't entertain my conspiracy theories today about you or Jack, but I kept having them and thought they were worth mentioning so I did. I think the game makes more sense when you consider it from a perspective that Sotty was always being pushed as scum, far more than her play warranted. But really, I think this sort of thing just happens to me when the game narrows down really quickly to a small pool of players. It just seems too easy. I am also warming to BlackVoid's suspicion of Maria, I'm not ruling goodmorning out and I haven't dedicated enough time to figuring out Creature yet either.

Everyone seems to make up their mind much quicker later in the game which is funny, because I feel like I spend most D1's ready to lynch while nobody else does. Now you all get to experience my to-ing and fro-ing.

[Hoopla]

BlackVoid, what do you think about my thinking that massclaim may be more beneficial tomorrow rather than today? I think the value of there potentially being a Watcher or protective role far exceeds any gains we get from massclaiming today. Really, the only thing we gain is potential improvements for PoE calculations and locking scum into fakeclaims earlier than usual. But we get those improvements in PoE tomorrow, and the scummiest player(s) will still have to claim the traditional way upon being wagoned.

[Hoopla]

Rereading the end of yesterday, I actually find Creature's actions (and ultimately his non-actions) quite suspicious. He spends a lot of time aimlessly waffling with Maria while others try to determine the lynchpool and what is viable. Then, as Sotty collects a couple of votes and her wagon starts to build he neglects to mention it, and then simply isn't online at all for the rest of the Sotty lynch.

At least when Sotty's wagon was happening, goodmorning was doing her usual thing of pushing unrealistic wagons by herself and Cloud was, well... here, and talking about Sotty while she was being wagoned, even if a lot of it looked incriminating.

It's also funny watching Creature try to paint goodmorning and Cloud as suspicious for their wagon positions while also being in the same boat as them:

Votecount 2.Final

Raskolnikov (1)

CloudKicker ,

Hoopla (1)

Creature ,

Jaack (2)

Sotty7 , MariaR ,

I Am Innocent (1)

goodmorning ,

Cloudkicker and goodmorning look bad there.

[Hoopla]

Raskol, I've seen you weighing up the validity of a variety of different scumteams today, but you've not mentioned Creature at all, which I don't get. What did he do that was town enough to exclude him from your PoE?

[MariaR]

Raskol, I've seen you weighing up the validity of a variety of different scumteams today, but you've not mentioned Creature at all, which I don't get. What did he do that was town enough to exclude him from your PoE?

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