Open 50: The New C9 - Abandoned!

[Shteven]

Don't think we're really going to accidentally lynch anyone, will probably need a few replacements. Better idea to just say you're here and try to keep going!

[LaptopGun]

Whatever. I am still here.

[JordanA24]

Thanks for taking over Khel.

We need something to talk about, I'm going to do a PbP, and see where we go from there:

Aimee:

Starts by agreeing with LML and putting a 5th vote on me, and FOSing Shteven for putting suspicion back on LML. I think the vote on me was fair enough, but Shteven didn't seem to be putting suspicion on LML. Indeed, he said:

I don't believe I've ever played with LML before (He's usually modding my games) but I suppose just from knowing him this kind of get-started-sprinting makes a lot of sense for him. I don't think it's much of a tell - in either direction.

I don't like how Aimee tried to erroneously link me and Shteven so early in the game.

Next couple of posts were an analysis of other posts, which I mostly agreed with. Was then absent for a couple of pages, made a post I agreed with. She then made a slightly scummy post here:

I kind of agree with both groups - I see there being better people to vote for than Sammich, but also didn't like his sarcasm and his bizarre actions so far.

I'm quite unimpressed with SSF so far - I'd have expected more scumhunting. Similarly LML seems to have hidden away after a prominent opening.

Fencesitting in the first paragraph, if there are better people to vote for, who are they in your opinion? And your opinion on LML seems to be based on lurking, which is not a scummy thing.

Disappears for a few pages, before finally voting for Sammich (I think she's a bit cautious with her votes), and finding SSF suspicious, both for not scumhunting. Comes back a week later, and it's exactly the same situation, nothing else for a whole week? It gets worse when she returns again after 10 days, and still has the same suspicions, with nothing else to contribute. To be fair to her, she has been busy, but I would expect a bit more after that amount of time. She's now still suspcious of Sammich, but not so much of SSF.

Conclusion

: Neutral, seems protown when trying. But I'd like to see a bit more contribution if you're not too busy.

LML:

Starts with saying I'm a surefire SK for ridiculous reasons, nobody is surefire anything after just 7 posts, as I said in my post after this, jumping to conclusions this quickly worries me. He then responds to what seems to be a random vote with:

You catch more scum on page one than you catch on page 30.

? Makes no sense to me whatsoever, you catch no scum whatsoever on Page 1 unless someone makes an obvious slip or admits so, and any suspicions on Page 1 are nowhere near as strong as they should be on Page 30. If you come back, I'd like you to explain this post.

You're quick to jump to conclusions...

I said "while it's possible" which means "there is a chance the vig killed the scum", not "the vig definatly killed the scum".

I never said that you said anything about "definates."

Instead, I spoke about your TONE. Sometimes, it not what a person says, rather HOW they say it.

I get the feeling I should have been more direct with this back then, here it goes:

Bollocks did I have a tone that suggested I was sure the Vig killed the scum, I was giving the vig advice why he shouldn't kill on Night 0 with no evidence, I barely touched on the subject of who he killed, this was the only time I did:

Vig, while it is

possible

that you killed scum last night

I've underlined the operative word for you.

timmers, I thought about that too. After re-reading I found out what he was trying to say. There isn't a 50/50 chance of hitting scum. But today, it was fifty percent chance that it was the vig that hit scum.

I think it was SK killing scum and Vig killing town. I don't know.
What are the odds of killing scum night one? I know it was more 25% than 50%.

Ahem. It was a 50% chance that the Vig killed the scum, rather than the SK killing the scum.

(eyeroll)

STOP MISREPRESNTING PEOPLE. He meant the chance of killing scum on Night 0ne in any game, not this one specifically.

I'm all for being serious on the first page, The only point of random voting is because there's nothing serious to talk about yet. If there's something serious, go for it.

As far as vigging goes, you may have a significantly higher chance to hit town, but hitting mafia is worth more. I'm not saying I'd recommend night one kills, but saying that you're more likely to hit town than mafia isn't the whole story.

As far a random vote, I'd

Vote TylerJ

because his avatar claimed godfather.

FoS: Shteven

You make the same "tone" mistake that Jordan makes. I dislike it. It makes me feel that you KNOW more than you should.

I wouldn't be shocked that one of them (Jordan and Shteven) is the SK and the other is the Vig.

More early assumptions, anyone played with LML before, is this playstyle?

I'm unhappy with the results of this thread.

What makes you say this?

I feel a town alligned player would have just waited for the mod to come and fix it, rather than an outcry for having it removed. I am not prepared to vote you on it, as it's unfortunate. However, you will probably be lynched over it.

Major FoS: Oman

This is a huge scumtell IMO, you feel what Oman did was scummy, you think he will be lynched for it, and yet you refuse to vote him for it. This means that if Oman was lynched for it, you wouldn't have appeared on the lynching wagon. If Oman is town, this would be a plus for you, and anyone skim-reading the game may well think that you never thought Oman scummy.

I am interested to hear AlyG comments at this point..

side question: both of your (Oman, LML) are on Jordan...do you both still think he is the SK?

Something about Jordan's D1 posts seem off to me, hence why I have not removed my vote.

I'd have liked an explaination for why my posts seem off.

Aimee (Her callout of SSF came out of nowhere. I have seen this a million times before. It's called the

Mafia Off Voter Play.

A mafia member puts pressure out of nowhere just so, if there's the tracing of votes later on, you see that one had the vote on the other.

Vote: Aimee
FoS: SomeStrangeFlea

This seems a very weird reason to vote for someone, since one being scum depends on both being scum. One calling the other out of nowhere could very easily be a nulltell, in fact, I think it is a complete nulltell, there's loads of situations where this has nothing to do with scumminess. In fact, voting because of this seems scummy, but then I think, why pick on Aimee, an experienced and proven player if you're going to do this? It's WIFOMy though. I'm calling this mildly scummy.

Conclusion

: Seems very scummy to me upon reread. I wouldn't mind seeing more pressure on this guy, well, actually his replacement, since LML seems to have dissapeared off this face of the Earth.

TylerJ

:

What made you more suspicious was your defensiveness. It's a newbie mistake that I can vouch for, but you are not a newbie. So in conclusion it wasn't one things, but two things. So there was some merited evidence.

FOS:Oman

your too careless about bandwagons. You also attempt to make people ignore the fact that you are bandwagoning.

Being defensive =/= Scummy. It's only when someone is overdefensive that someone is scummy, I was merely defending against accusations from another player, which is not scummy, otherwise we wouldn't get anywhere in this game.

I also think what Oman did wasn't worthy of an FOS, I'd personally disagree, but some players like an early bandwagon to start the game, which, if it's a playstyle thing (which in Oman's case, it is), it isn't scummy.

Seems to buddy up to people a bit more than I like, a lot of "I agree's" and trying to associate himself with others in his posts I've noticed, and trying to appear helpful.

I'm quite pleased that he tried to metagame Oman rather than jump blindly on hid bandwagon.

Okay, I say we wait till we see more evidence for or against oman. So far, we have info about what he usually does, which cause a circle of questions.

I don't think this is quite as bad as Aimee made it sound, but it was still pretty scummy, it had "Let's wait for Oman to slip up" vibes.

Unsure of myself? Still, I need evidence.

A few posts later...

ssf=scum

Seems to be contradictory, and there seems to be something worse about this, it could mean a lot of the time, you are faking being unsure to look more townie, and then you made a slip, by saying ssf=scum.

As far as the ssf=scum, I was just trying to be humorous.

Something like ssf=scum is not the sort of thing you joke about, this post made me much more confident in thinking you are faking being unsure, made a slip, and then you tried to backtrack when you realised what you said.

Oman you have yet to provide evidence. You mad something up in an attempt to falsely corner me.

I'm sure you are scum.

Again, you seem to be pretty sure here, have you decided to drop the unsure act?

I quite liked his post that said LTG had tunnel-vision for SSF. Same goes for Post 265, but I'm still not buying that he was joking about SSF=scum.

As far as the other points mentioned, I don't think any of the reasons are good for a vote. It seems that some people are a little noose happy.

wow, I find it hard to contribute when no one else is contributing. I would post something worth posting if I actually had something to go off of.

You could post something yourself.

Conclusion

:Slightly scummy, I don't really like his buddying up or his unsure act, but none-the-less, I get protown vibes from a lot of his posts. I think the act cancels this out and a bit more, but nothing voteworthy yet.

White

: Had to replace him in my game, so he probably needs replacing in this one as well.

Anyway, he starts by voting me, but then in his second post, he FOS's Oman for bandwagoning. A huge double standard by the looks of it here.

He follows it up with this:

*munches popcorn* This is cooking along just fine.

A completely useless filler post, why bother posting it at all. It also shows he's reading, but not willing to make useful comments. So he's off to a pretty scummy start.

Well actually if you want to read up on overdefensiveness read some of ZONEACE's posts. He swears and rants and uses caps all over the places. OMGUS's and other things.

I think this whole defensiveness vs overdefensiveness thing is stupid. Where is the clearcut line that says this is defensiveness but this is too far? There is none. You have to move it about depending on who you're playing with.

My thoughts? Jordan was too defensive.

Seems to be a contradiction in this post here, he says that we should look at ZONEACE for overdefensiveness, who uses all caps, swears etc. But then he says I was overdefensive, despite me using none of these and being completely calm in comparison to how he describes ZONEACE. He seems to be determined to stick his vote on me, even if I don't look scummy by his description, which unsettles me.

As for Shteven's claim. Yes, he is too defensive. Yes, he was a townie. Yes, he is being over defensive right now. Scumtell? Not yet. It took me over 100 pages of Shteven for be to finally get a good townie feeling from his posts. Currently i'd say it's a nulltell.

skitzer, short posts =/= townie.

I'm on the Jordan wagon to get things moving. Mountain of a molehill really. I'm going to leave my vote there for now though.

More double standards, he's admitted he's going to stick his vote on me despite my case being a "molehill", to bandwagon to get things moving, this despite him FOSing Oman earlier for admitting to bandwagon. And why is he so willing to let Shteven slide for overdefensiveness, while he's voting me for it, why not try to start a wagon on him instead of sticking to mine like a barnacle to a rock.

Skitzer, how many games are we in that my alignment is known (ie i'm dead)? Zero. You can't meta me for scum/town if you don't know my alignment.

Then why say it at all ? Or are you saying short posts aren't a town thing to do and to contribute more?

Because I was asked, duh.
Am I saying that? No! If you read the post you can see very clearly what i'm saying. Stop stuffing words in my mouth.

Yeah, but I was inflecting on your own playstyle.

White makes short posts = Townie
White makes long posts = SCUM!

First off, I haven't died in any games we're in together. So you can't know this.
Secondly it's untrue, when i'm scum and town I still try and contribute and scum hunt.
Thirdly you can't know my playstyle.

Unvote, Vote: Skitzer

for craplogic and being deliberately obtuse and unhelpful, in addition to distracting the town and not scumhunting.

Oh, and this isn't overdefensive. OMGUS, being rude to people who dare question you, not at all overdefensive .

Finally starts to make some protownish posts, refusing to vote for Sammich because it seems to be a playstyle thing that makes him look scummy rather than his actual alignment, which I think is in some way true. He also starts to constructively analyse things, and then he disappeared.

Conclusion

: Had a horrible start, full of contradictions and double standards, second half of his game was better, even protown, but not enough IMO to cancel out his first half. He's another player who could find my vote on him at the end of this.

Opposed Force

: Made a decent analysis after not posting for ages, though there was too many neutrals for my liking in that analysis. When someone pointed this out, rather than try to modify it, he just posted:

I believe the word is Neutral, my friend.

Everybodies a critic.

Not a very constructive response.

2) Claiming "super sexy town" is not a claim. "town" is a content-free (and therefore acceptable) claim to make at any time. Everyone here is town, right? claiming townIE -is- a claim, and that would be very suspicious. So sammich did not make a roleclaim. So while there's no real need to post your own alignment, if you feel like claiming you get the ladies, it's not a scumtell.

I disagree with this. A person would know his own alignment on hand once he gets the mod's pm. So by posting "Super Sexy Town" it would pretty much be claiming any of the roles on the town side. Whether it's cop,doctor,vigilante, or townie saying to everybody he is town means he is claming pro-town. Techincally I can see where this wouldn't actually be a actual role claim but an alignment claim. Also I'm not sure what you meant with your post "Everyone here is town, right?" Do you mean that most likely everybody here would claim pro-town?

You seem to be trying very hard to stick to your suspicions of Sammich here. How is claiming protown suspicious. And obviously everyone, if asked, would claim protown, the scum aren't going to ask to be lynched.

Other than that, I can't really find anything suspicious about him, and some of his posts give me a slight protown vibe, like he's genuinly scumhunting.

Conclusion

: (Ironically) Neutral

Sammich

:

Fortunately, we got one Mafia, vig or SK provided.

What did you mean by this?

Liked his vote on Oman, but then that was followed by a couple of very unhelpful posts, in response to ooba calling him scummy. He then questioned defensiveness being a scumtell, confirm voting Oman and made a useful post in response to White, all of which I see as protown.

But then he went and made a load of unhelpful sarcastic comments and got really overdefensive. Then he made the awful analysis that wasn't really an analysis, rather a list of what had happened in the game up to that point, followed by a short sentence on each, which included him pointing out Shteven as a possible doctor, which was a stupid at best, and very scummy at worst. He follows this with more nothing posts and overdefensiveness. In fact, since then, all it's been is mostly asking for vote counts, wondering where the mod is and other filler posts, with a few opinions thrown in sometimes.

Conclusion

: This is difficult, Sammich has been scummy, no question. Problem is, is this a playstyle thing, is he just a poor player regardless of alignment? In another game that's ongoing, he got lynched on Day 1 after being generally scummy, and turned out to be a townie. In that game however, most of comments were at least game relevant. Here they haven't been. Though when he has made game related comments, near the start of the game, I have agreed with them, and found them protown. I'm going to call him rather scummy for now, and will hopefully get a better read on him later. Anyone help on Sammich's meta-read that anyone can provide will be greatly appreciated.

ManaSpryte

Has made 3 posts and probably needs replacing. In his only post of content, he voted Oman, FOSed me for "overdefensiveness" and agreed with LTG on his "high post rate is bad for the town" theory, which I disagree with.

Conclusion

: Neutral so far, needs replacing to get a proper read on this role.

AlyG

: Another one who needs replacing. Has only made 3 posts on content, one where he votes Oman, and FOS's Tyler on what he admits could be a misunderstanding, which could well be opportunism, but he did only FOS.

Conclusion

: Neutral, needs replacing so I can get a better read.


I'll do the second half of this over the weekend hopefully, but if not (I've got homework and other games to worry about as well), I'll get it up ASAP.

[TylerJ]

Congrats Jordan! Seriously, with all of the lack of participation going on, you are actually trying to contribute. I still disagree with the seemingly lurky style that you play with, but at the same time, you play like this in the other games I've played with you in which you were innocent, so I don't find it scummy.

As far as your thing against me. I was joking about ssf. The unsure and sure stuff is completely un intentional. Call it unconcuious. Trust me, I'm not that talented. To put on an act on a forum is highly difficult. Also, the buddying up thing isn't true. When I agree with someone, I agree. As a matter-of-fact If I was scum, I would care less if I agreed or disagreed with my partner. I lay my opinions down and agree or disagree with others, in no way am I trying to buddy up.

I also know that I have shared in the lack of contribution.

[Sammich]

Conclusion: This is difficult, Sammich has been scummy, no question. Problem is, is this a playstyle thing, is he just a poor player regardless of alignment? In another game that's ongoing, he got lynched on Day 1 after being generally scummy, and turned out to be a townie. In that game however, most of comments were at least game relevant. Here they haven't been. Though when he has made game related comments, near the start of the game, I have agreed with them, and found them protown. I'm going to call him rather scummy for now, and will hopefully get a better read on him later. Anyone help on Sammich's meta-read that anyone can provide will be greatly appreciated.

But why do we need a meta-read?

[JordanA24]

Conclusion: This is difficult, Sammich has been scummy, no question. Problem is, is this a playstyle thing, is he just a poor player regardless of alignment? In another game that's ongoing, he got lynched on Day 1 after being generally scummy, and turned out to be a townie. In that game however, most of comments were at least game relevant. Here they haven't been. Though when he has made game related comments, near the start of the game, I have agreed with them, and found them protown. I'm going to call him rather scummy for now, and will hopefully get a better read on him later. Anyone help on Sammich's meta-read that anyone can provide will be greatly appreciated.

But why do we need a meta-read?

To know whether this is what you normally do or not.

[OpposedForce]

@Jordan- Sammich posted that because I misspelled Neutral as Netural. It was meant as a joke response. I felt alot people were Neutral in the game and honestly couldn't lean one way or the other on them. I don't understand why I would have to modify a opinion that I feel suits them. As for Sammich stating he was Pro-town it was a bit of a missumpation on my part. I thought when he stated himself pro-town he was trying to lead away any suspision that may of befallen on him. Again I was confused asking a direct question at Steven on wheter he meant by his post "Everybody is town here, right?" that the whole town would claim pro-town individually if pressured. I was to rushed in my suspicsions agaisnt Sammich I admit that.

[curiouskarmadog]

back, going to read what I missed, looks like Jordan did a partial PbP, which is good....think we are going to need some replacements...thanks Khel for taking on the game!

[LaptopGun]

.

Conclusion

: Seems very scummy to me upon reread. I wouldn't mind seeing more pressure on this guy, well, actually his replacement, since LML seems to have dissapeared off this face of the Earth.

I hate to nitpick in your otherwise clear analyisis, but I am curious what you meant by "pressure". Are you saying we need to talk about him more? Or do you want to try a vote to push idea? I certainly agree we have a lot to talk about in this thread, a good part of that about people who have gone AWOL or MIA. For that reason, I dont think votes on LML would work towards such an end. He's been scummy and a vote would not be wasted on him- I just dont see it as a good stradegy for LML and some of the MIA's.

Then again I am thinking you meant more the former.

Ok fine yeah we need to do a lot of talking. I need to do a lot more talking.

[Sammich]

I guess I should do an analysis soon.
I'll have some up soon.

[TylerJ]

Vote: LML

Let the game pick up.

[Oman]

Vote Tyler J

for going with whoever Jordan's PBPA told him too.

[Justin Playfair]

Hi. I am reading now and will post as soon as I am done. Good to be here.

[TylerJ]

Actually I posted to pick up the game. IF Jdodge was at all trying to send a subliminal message my way, I would have picked it up quite a while ago.

[ooba]

Actually I posted to pick up the game. IF Jdodge was at all trying to send a subliminal message my way, I would have picked it up quite a while ago.

JDodge??

[TylerJ]

ahhh! typo, Jordon. At least the J is the same.

[Sammich]

JDodge would never be listened to, anyway.

[TylerJ]

and you would be? j/k

[The Fonz]

Hi, back off V/LA, analysis of recent developments coming soon.

[TylerJ]

perhaps you can get the game kicking.

[Shteven]

Vote: LML

Let the game pick up.

From what I can tell, LML seems to have dropped off the site almost entirely. One of these days I'll track down his cell phone number and go harass him as to why. A game he's modding, he's stopped posting under LML and seems to be modding from a secondary account. This doesn't make much sense to me either.

This post largely to let you know I'm still alive and kickin'. More to come.

[LaptopGun]

Vote Tyler J

for going with whoever Jordan's PBPA told him too.

To be fair, Jordan didn't finish the posting. Either he's just trying to keep game going (as he says) or hes "just" playing along to put the mafia in a good situation. Or Jordan and Tyler are working together. Naaaaaah. That's just ridiculous. Curious move by Tyler, but maybe this game needs a shot in the arm.

[curiouskarmadog]

vote LML

until he his replaced or starts posting

[TylerJ]

Seriosly, I am glad it is a curious move. It was intended that way to get the game moving. Im, thinking we should all post a pbpa.

[Sammich]

Gonna be gone for an amount of time. I'm sick.