The real folk blues [Canceled]

[Cerberus v666]

Mmmm she didn't claim 2 characters? She claimed a role, and then claimed a character. If there was a second character claim she made besides whoever the girl was I looked up (as in, one she EXPLICITLY made), then sure it makes sense thet town should have caught that. BUT if the issue was that pgo with that kill flavor didn't make sense for her claimed character flavor, then no, town not catching that isn't unreasonable.

@Rachmarie: you played with me in Gistou. I'm ALWAYS supremely confident in my ability to evade lynches. Totally NAI for me, and not even indicative of my role..

[Frozen Angel]

Mmmm she didn't claim 2 characters? She claimed a role, and then claimed a character. If there was a second character claim she made besides whoever the girl was I looked up (as in, one she EXPLICITLY made), then sure it makes sense thet town should have caught that. BUT if the issue was that pgo with that kill flavor didn't make sense for her claimed character flavor, then no, town not catching that isn't unreasonable.

@Rachmarie: you played with me in Gistou. I'm ALWAYS supremely confident in my ability to evade lynches. Totally NAI for me, and not even indicative of my role..

She claimed to be the killer of Vifam. Go back and read my day start story? Its obviously Vincent who did that kill. Then she claimed Electra

so she directly claimed 2 flavor characters.

Its not about the method of her kill at all.

[Frozen Angel]

Your not even paying attention now - that I'm pointing to the clues!

That killflavor is unique for only Vincent. He was in the kill scene. The Butterflies refrensce in the story is just POINTing to the Vincent. and more obviously The killer was a Man.

Noone even doubted that how she claimed to be electra when the killer was a man?!

[Cerberus v666]

No FA. You REALLY can't expect town to assume your flavor story has additional details about who performed kills beyond the actual flavor assigned to the kills. That's something which needs to be explicitly stated by you in the details about the game, not just that there are kill flavors, but that your flavor stories are meaningful.

[Frozen Angel]

Mmmm she didn't claim 2 characters? She claimed a role, and then claimed a character. If there was a second character claim she made besides whoever the girl was I looked up (as in, one she EXPLICITLY made), then sure it makes sense thet town should have caught that. BUT if the issue was that pgo with that kill flavor didn't make sense for her claimed character flavor, then no, town not catching that isn't unreasonable.

@Rachmarie: you played with me in Gistou. I'm ALWAYS supremely confident in my ability to evade lynches. Totally NAI for me, and not even indicative of my role..

I know thats not the stuff you usually use to solve a game But thats meaning of putting flavor inside the game. I will run more kill-flavored games for sure - the games that you need to pay attention to my flavor posts and kill descriptions cause there are clues in there -

and Kraska can't complain that she was outed by this. This was the game core design and she had no chance setup wise to claim the kill but to claim another character and I even reminded her that info before her claim

pedit : I don't expect you to use the story. The Kill flavor was unique to this character and my story was written in a way that it was like the killer identity is an open info.

You could ask me "who kills with biological warfare and explosives in cowboy bebop?" and I would say "Vincent Volajea"

[kraska77]

Oh this reminds me
If you guys wanna see sth funny....there's a page where ds and me and pisskop and skrub are fake fiting xD like he entire page is us fiting lol

[Frozen Angel]

anyway - thats not really related to me! deal with game in any manner you like. I'm not being unreasonable. I gave you kill flavors , based on that it was obvious she claimed a fake character. and that doesn't mean I gave her a bad fake character.

so nothing is on me. The rest is how you want to investigate that info - or throw it away.

[kraska77]

and Kraska can't complain that she was outed by this. This was the game core design and she had no chance setup wise to claim the kill but to claim another character and I even reminded her that info before her claim

Yeah but town had no reason to assume the game was following flavour so rigulously

[Frozen Angel]

I told that in my sign up page that the game is relied on its flavor and there is flavor in kills.

plus it was obvious from some role pm's

Thats how much flavor will mean in a game with kill flavors for me. at least remember that for future games.

[Cerberus v666]

I'm not saying it's on you, other than insofar as if you EXPECTED town to read into your flavor stories for mechanical hints, that is, that the game was balanced with that expectation, town should have been aware that they needed to pay attention to that. Since town WASN'T aware of that, any accusation that town was dumb for missing it is unfounded.

That's it. You know me FA. If I legitimately missed something I should have caught I would admit to it, and I would be the first to do so. I blame myself for basically every game my faction loses. I'm not trying to weasel out of responsibility or something, there was just no reason for town to look at your story as something to check to confirm kraskas flavor claim. HAD there been, I'd be beating myself up for missing it (probably, I was pretty lazy this game)...but since there wasn't, I don't even feel the tiniest bit of responsibility.

Pedit: yeah that's purely meta unique to you FA. The only mechanical part flavor usually plays in a game with kill flavors is the part where you say x was killed by y method.

[Frozen Angel]

oh and it was obvious from the way people died night 1.

someone died with a Katana

another was killed by biolofical warfare and one got shot

Obviously its not a normal game and flavor was involved. and I'm sure Vicious name was next to his kill and I basically described Vincent truck explosion (ep start) and the butterfly thingies - I didn't notice I didn't mention Vincent name directly in that story till midday - when you claimed electra but I was still sure the signs were enough for someone to destroy you flavor wise.

and that didn't happen so yeah - that is practically my fualt

[Frozen Angel]

The only mechanical part flavor usually plays in a game with kill flavors is the part where you say x was killed by y method.

and that was enough for you to say she is lieing with her flavor claim. I just brought up the story to say that i won't put things in my story that describe hidden knowledge and my story was written like The killers are public knowledge. Put story aside. The kill flavor "Katana" was obviously tight to character "Vicious" and by same way of thinking no one else exploded stuff and used Biological warfare beside Vincent. Plus Electra was a gun shooter in the show - and she prefered fist .

another note : kraska claimed her kill flavor was ambigious and partial. I never design a partially clear setup. NEVER.

thats mod meta i know but look what i've done in my dota mafia game (the terms dictionary , the archives , the DNAR system , Notes and notifications ...). I won't ever say "You will kill with explosives" and then announce "X died with explosives and biological warfare" with one exception : that something else caused that Biological warfare - which in this game I repeatedly denied it. So it was a bit annoying how she manovered over the fact I gave her a partially clear Kill flavor in her role pm and no one attacked her back for it

[Varsoon]

I'm cool with a death flip having a flavored kill, like,
"Varsoon was poisoned and died on Night 1" and/or "Varsoon was shot on Night 1" instead of the usual "Varsoon was killed on Night 1."

That said, I'm less cool with the flavor writeups on flips and day-start having any mechanical significance.
If the fake-claims are good enough and the flavor information is irrelevant enough, you can work unflipped player flavor into the game flavor to reflect those players' actions and sensibilities, but it should just be flavor--nothing for a mechanical advantage.

When I read that flavor matters in a game, I think, "Oh, so if I'm Spike, I'll have a role that makes sense for Spike and might be a pretty strong role. I'm probably town since he's a protagonist, too" or, alternatively, I think, "Maybe scum has a way of punishing me if I flavor claim, utilizing unique mechanics." I do not think, "The flavor writeups are indicative of the game-state beyond simply saying who died."

[Frozen Angel]

That wasn't the case as you saw how the 2nd (or 3rd arguably) person in show was actually a fake claim for a traitor. and I had strong chars who were vanilla and low chars who had strong roles.

Flavor was based on the way killers would kill and nothing else. I can't open this topic without exposing my setup and I don't want to.

Flavor mattered in game only as KIll flavors - Unique style killers identity was outed by me - so you could track which scum faction (bad character) killed who. and that was an advantage town had. My fake claims were standard in sense no scum should have claimed to be the killer - as that would out their character and they had enough power to not get exposed by killing people

[Frozen Angel]

There is no way you can judge setup balance without knowing anything about it so I'm going to ignore your comments about this game's balance.

as i promised I will make another version of a kill-flavored game based on cowboy bebop so you can taste what it means to have flavor data in game and how I tried to balance that information (forexample by limiting power roles to finding a certain group of people - like Vifam gunsmith)

[Frozen Angel]

For example about this game : Kraska could easily deny being Vifam killer or being related to Vifam at all.

or when she claimed the kill she could go with Vincent as a town pgo or a serial killer poisoner Bulletproof PGO(mirhawk what was your version? )

I don't know where that PGO came from suddenly!

[mhsmith0]

It's very clear that the setup was drastically scum sided and therefore I can count it as a win despite cancellation

[Vifam]

@vifam: what part of my play made you want to make fun of me

I'm just an asshole don't pay it any mind I'm sorry bro

[Varsoon]

Flavor was based on the way killers would kill and nothing else. I can't open this topic without exposing my setup and I don't want to.

<3
It's all fine.
I wasn't completely aware of that--some things can be done to make it more explicit.
I think that's what's important.
If players are meant to know information, the information should be very clear.

[Varsoon]

Looking at the death flips now, it seems only evident, to me, that the kill flavor indicates separate killers, but that's 'bout it.
If you want it to be clear which kills are coming from which scum team, etc, that's not something I was really able to pick up.

[Nero Cain]

You can keep the maf pts private. i dont mind

you are a sad sport keeping ya'lls scum PT private.

[pisskop]

I am sad. I was looking forward to stringing you along

[pisskop]

She can release it if she wants. Ive told her so.

[Nero Cain]

eh. The game was so big and there were so much bad but I'm willing to agree that you had me fairly fooled. My reads were ok.

I mean with kraska not claiming PGO d1-its bad town form I agree but I also didn't think it was impossible that Vifam was killed to frame her. I mean I doubt I would have let her coast to end game but I just didn't think we had to lynch her that day. What I should have been more aware of was how shitty that kraska townreading Skrub for confirming to be an alt.

p disappointed that Soon/Shiro was so lurky.

Rach and DS basically scum claimed on d2.

Had a solid scum read on DGB/Vax.

ABR was lurky early on but I guess he kinda fooled me later on when pushing TAM.

Exp was obvscum but Rach says I always scum read him (which I haven't since we've played more than twice)

The Maker wagon was a joke. None of those 17 players deserved to be town.

Cerberus admitting that he was playing differently could explain why I thought he was scummy.

Housetown is like giving scum an extra helper but ok, I misread him. If Drixx doesn't have time to play he shoulda replaced out.

NOS being lurky and useless seemed pretty null to me. I'll admit that I misread that.

On d1 I kinda suspected Panzer at the scummist in the hood since I felt his don't really doing anything and pushing for policy lynches was p scum motivated. I'm disappointed that I didn't follow through.

IDK WTF that KTS play.

Kinda hated SpyreX all over Nacho's nuts. Thought there was some scum motivation in that.

After the Skrub wagon dissipated he was kinda lurky and seemed content to coast. Shoulda seen the scum motivation in that.

Can anyone blame me for scumreading Cakez?

[Nero Cain]

Was there a 2 shot PGO in Mastins game? I remember sitting there and thinking that it made sense that it was in the game.