Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[BlackVoid]

TOWNLORDS WHO I TRUST TO WIN THIS GAME

Victor:

I buy Victor's Mason claim as he claimed it when he didn't have to and I was townreading him before anyways, claim or not.

IAI:

I still think IAI is town for the way he put his neck on the line to lynch GreyICE despite the arguments to the contrary. They don't address the fact that it was D1 and IAI had several other options if he was scum and wanted to look pro-town.

Jaack:

The Jaack wagon is horrible. What the heck are you guys doing? My townread on Jaack from D1 still holds and nothing he's done today has reduced that. He went after Sotty7 which seems consistent with the rest of his play. I think he's tunneling a bit given there are scum outside of Sotty7 but I understand why he wants his biggest scumread dead. I don't get how Rask started thinking "he feels fake to me now" when nothing of Jaack's demeanor, pushes, or activity level has changed.

goodmorning:

Despite not understanding GM's play at times, I think she's town. One of the biggest tells I've noticed was when she told Sotty7 that she doesn't want to argue with good players when she suspects them. It seemed like such a bizarre thing for scum to say. If GM was scum and scared of Sotty7 beating her in an argument, couldn't she simply attack weaker players? Stuff I wrote in 323 about her early play still apply.

Creature:

I'm pretty confident he's town now because he's seeing the game in a very similar way to me. I expand on 1314 on him and his predecessor.

TOWNIE BUT A TINGE OF PARAN

OIA:

Cloud:

I'm a little more murky on Cloud but I still think what I said in 325 applies. I like his reaction to that which was to tell me he was doing pro-town things and not to townread him for a slip. He also talks about how great he is as scum which tends to just put people on their guards so I think he probably wouldn't do it as scum. But I think of all townreads, this one is the shakiest.

FUTURE SCUM BLOC MEMBERS WHO WILL SERVE AS THE BACKBONE (ALONG WITH ME) IN DEMOLISHING THE TOWN:

Sotty7:

Sotty7 is a given. The recent attack on Creature is simply attacking who she perceives as the weakest vote on her wagon. Creature's stances and positions are amazingly consistent and she just ignored that because he jumped onto two wagons. Guess what, both wagons that Creature jumped on (Sotty7 and Hoopla) were on people he was scumreading. It's not like he's randomly jumping on wagons.

Hoopla:

All of Hoopla's pushes today are bad. GM is town as is Jaack. Hoopla's reason for voting GM is literally "she and TwoFace defended me against Victor and there's gotta be one scum there. TwoFace was town so GM is scum." That's so lame and if she actually believed what she was saying to Victor, she shouldn't find it surprising that people agreed with her. Then there's the Jaack push. No reasoning but I'll assume from D1 that she just thought Jaack was flying under the radar. I pointed out that this is Jaack's normal play and she hopped off because me and TwoFace were defending him. But now TwoFace is dead leaving her clear to push Jaack.

Rask:

Rask's case on GM harped on way too much about "anti-town" stuff like GM not responding and posting reads. But then if he was so sure that he went to absurd lengths to write a wall of text about her, how did he so easily switch to Sotty7 instead of arguing that Sotty7 was a counterwagon to GM? I don't think he actually believes his GM-case and there were some points where I felt he was parroting Victor (for example, saying that GM is refusing to read Victor's posts which I know is a sore point for Victor).

MariaR:

MariaR's scumreads are me and Jaack which is just wtf. She's just doing everything that is the opposite of what I'm doing. There's also the fact that the Victor wagon formed from people disgruntled with the GreyICE lynch and were part of the Sotty7 wagon. Who hated the GreyICE lynch, was never on the Sotty7 wagon but on the Victor wagon? MariaR.

[MariaR]

Black is right that we are legit doing everything opposite of each other I don't remember who was part of the Scotty wagon day 1 so I joined the victor wagon and a few of my townreads joined as I was okay with it your only reason for sr's me is just that were on 2 sides of a coin

[CloudKicker]

TOWNLORDS WHO I TRUST TO WIN THIS GAME

Victor:

I buy Victor's Mason claim as he claimed it when he didn't have to and I was townreading him before anyways, claim or not.

IAI:

I still think IAI is town for the way he put his neck on the line to lynch GreyICE despite the arguments to the contrary. They don't address the fact that it was D1 and IAI had several other options if he was scum and wanted to look pro-town.

Jaack:

The Jaack wagon is horrible. What the heck are you guys doing? My townread on Jaack from D1 still holds and nothing he's done today has reduced that. He went after Sotty7 which seems consistent with the rest of his play. I think he's tunneling a bit given there are scum outside of Sotty7 but I understand why he wants his biggest scumread dead. I don't get how Rask started thinking "he feels fake to me now" when nothing of Jaack's demeanor, pushes, or activity level has changed.

goodmorning:

Despite not understanding GM's play at times, I think she's town. One of the biggest tells I've noticed was when she told Sotty7 that she doesn't want to argue with good players when she suspects them. It seemed like such a bizarre thing for scum to say. If GM was scum and scared of Sotty7 beating her in an argument, couldn't she simply attack weaker players? Stuff I wrote in 323 about her early play still apply.

Creature:

I'm pretty confident he's town now because he's seeing the game in a very similar way to me. I expand on 1314 on him and his predecessor.

TOWNIE BUT A TINGE OF PARAN

OIA:

Cloud:

I'm a little more murky on Cloud but I still think what I said in 325 applies. I like his reaction to that which was to tell me he was doing pro-town things and not to townread him for a slip. He also talks about how great he is as scum which tends to just put people on their guards so I think he probably wouldn't do it as scum. But I think of all townreads, this one is the shakiest.

FUTURE SCUM BLOC MEMBERS WHO WILL SERVE AS THE BACKBONE (ALONG WITH ME) IN DEMOLISHING THE TOWN:

Sotty7:

Sotty7 is a given. The recent attack on Creature is simply attacking who she perceives as the weakest vote on her wagon. Creature's stances and positions are amazingly consistent and she just ignored that because he jumped onto two wagons. Guess what, both wagons that Creature jumped on (Sotty7 and Hoopla) were on people he was scumreading. It's not like he's randomly jumping on wagons.

Hoopla:

All of Hoopla's pushes today are bad. GM is town as is Jaack. Hoopla's reason for voting GM is literally "she and TwoFace defended me against Victor and there's gotta be one scum there. TwoFace was town so GM is scum." That's so lame and if she actually believed what she was saying to Victor, she shouldn't find it surprising that people agreed with her. Then there's the Jaack push. No reasoning but I'll assume from D1 that she just thought Jaack was flying under the radar. I pointed out that this is Jaack's normal play and she hopped off because me and TwoFace were defending him. But now TwoFace is dead leaving her clear to push Jaack.

Rask:

Rask's case on GM harped on way too much about "anti-town" stuff like GM not responding and posting reads. But then if he was so sure that he went to absurd lengths to write a wall of text about her, how did he so easily switch to Sotty7 instead of arguing that Sotty7 was a counterwagon to GM? I don't think he actually believes his GM-case and there were some points where I felt he was parroting Victor (for example, saying that GM is refusing to read Victor's posts which I know is a sore point for Victor).

MariaR:

MariaR's scumreads are me and Jaack which is just wtf. She's just doing everything that is the opposite of what I'm doing. There's also the fact that the Victor wagon formed from people disgruntled with the GreyICE lynch and were part of the Sotty7 wagon. Who hated the GreyICE lynch, was never on the Sotty7 wagon but on the Victor wagon? MariaR.

If i was scum id be higher

[mhsmith0]

Votecount 2.07

Hoopla (4)

goodmorning , I Am Innocent , Creature , BlackVoid L-2 ,

Jaack (3)

Raskolnikov , MariaR , Hoopla ,

Jaack (4)

Raskolnikov , MariaR , CloudKicker , Hoopla L-2 ,

Creature (2)

VictorDeAngelo , Sotty7 ,

Sotty7 (1)

Jaack ,

Not Voting (1)

CloudKicker ,

Day two deadline is Friday November 18, 1 PM PST. (expired on 2016-11-18 13:00:00)

VictorDeAngelo, goodmorning, Jaack, I Am Innocent have been prodded.

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!

[/size]

[MariaR]

Join the jaack vote for a townblock!

[CloudKicker]

Votecount 2.07

Hoopla (4)

goodmorning , I Am Innocent , Creature , BlackVoid L-2 ,

Jaack (3)

Raskolnikov , MariaR , Hoopla ,

Creature (2)

VictorDeAngelo , Sotty7 ,

Sotty7 (1)

Jaack ,

Not Voting (1)

CloudKicker ,

Day two deadline is Friday November 18, 1 PM PST. (expired on 2016-11-18 13:00:00)

VictorDeAngelo, goodmorning, Jaack, I Am Innocent have been prodded.

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!

[/size]

I voted jack 1483

[BlackVoid]

Jaack is town. Why not hop over to the Hoopla wagon?

[MariaR]

Jaack is town. Why not hop over to the Hoopla wagon?

You're on the wagon so no ty

[mhsmith0]

vc fixed

[CloudKicker]

Jaack is town. Why not hop over to the Hoopla wagon?

His flip flop with sotty and me was inconsistent af

[CloudKicker]

I also think that hoopla voting alone on gm (who isnt getting lynched) isnt a good play as scum when youre being heavily fosed

[I Am Innocent]

Join the jaack vote for a townblock!

I care more about lynching scum, hence the hoopla vote!

[MariaR]

Join the jaack vote for a townblock!

I care more about lynching scum, hence the hoopla vote!

Wow we have the same sight in mind!
So why is your vote not on jaack or BV?

[I Am Innocent]

Join the jaack vote for a townblock!

I care more about lynching scum, hence the hoopla vote!

Wow we have the same sight in mind!
So why is your vote not on jaack or BV?

Do you believe both Victor's and Sotty's claims?

[MariaR]

Join the jaack vote for a townblock!

I care more about lynching scum, hence the hoopla vote!

Wow we have the same sight in mind!
So why is your vote not on jaack or BV?

Do you believe both Victor's and Sotty's claims?

I believe Scotty
Victors I'm iffy on and if that mason partner doesn't show up with in a time frame I'll tunnel harder then anyone's ever seen

[I Am Innocent]

Cause the way I see it, with at least 2 town masons and a town tracker (this is the one I don't believe) in a 13 player game, I have to assume scum must be loaded with power. At least 2 scum with night actions (kill and at least one other), yet this group goes after the one player that Sotty tracked doing nothing.

Yeah, jack is not likely scum.

[I Am Innocent]

And as for your other choice, I still strongly town read BV. His reads may be all over the place, but that is town effort (not very easily fakeable).

[MariaR]

Cause the way I see it, with at least 2 town masons and a town tracker (this is the one I don't believe) in a 13 player game, I have to assume scum must be loaded with power. At least 2 scum with night actions (kill and at least one other), yet this group goes after the one player that Sotty tracked doing nothing.

Yeah, jack is not likely scum.

Isn't maifa with another kill like vig bastard or am I misunderstanding what you're saying

[MariaR]

And as for your other choice, I still strongly town read BV. His reads may be all over the place, but that is town effort (not very easily fakeable).

See this I agree with that he's putting effort but I feel some of it is LAMIST with those theory crafts his reads are also very dif to mine so it's hard to tr him but not impossible

[MariaR]

IAI can you try to show me a game or give me an example on the dif between town and scum effort because I feel mostly everyone puts effort in the game for me an example of town effort would be your "every vote thing" like if scum did that you're a tryhard.

[I Am Innocent]

Cause the way I see it, with at least 2 town masons and a town tracker (this is the one I don't believe) in a 13 player game, I have to assume scum must be loaded with power. At least 2 scum with night actions (kill and at least one other), yet this group goes after the one player that Sotty tracked doing nothing.

Yeah, jack is not likely scum.

Isn't maifa with another kill like vig bastard or am I misunderstanding what you're saying

Well I already linked to one normal game earlier where I was part of a 2 player scum team and we had a vig. But in my comment, I was thinking more like a rolecop/vanilla cop, or roleblocker that would have a night action as well. something more than an a passive role like encryptor.

[I Am Innocent]

IAI can you try to show me a game or give me an example on the dif between town and scum effort because I feel mostly everyone puts effort in the game for me an example of town effort would be your "every vote thing" like if scum did that you're a tryhard.

our last game with transcend is a similar example. I felt he was all over the place, but eventually I realized that effort was not fakeable.

[I Am Innocent]

*not easily fakeable. very few players can do it.

[MariaR]

Cause the way I see it, with at least 2 town masons and a town tracker (this is the one I don't believe) in a 13 player game, I have to assume scum must be loaded with power. At least 2 scum with night actions (kill and at least one other), yet this group goes after the one player that Sotty tracked doing nothing.

Yeah, jack is not likely scum.

Isn't maifa with another kill like vig bastard or am I misunderstanding what you're saying

Well I already linked to one normal game earlier where I was part of a 2 player scum team and we had a vig. But in my comment, I was thinking more like a rolecop/vanilla cop, or roleblocker that would have a night action as well. something more than an a passive role like encryptor.

Ahhh I thought you meant just killing power.
Did that 2 scum have a lot of pr's for town I would hope not cause that's really really bad

[I Am Innocent]

Maria, you really think Hoopla is town? Can you please explain cause I am not seeing that one at all