Mini Normal 1844 Firework Mafia. Game Over

[Titus]

Hi. If you think you're mislynching RB Transcend, you got another thing coming.

What, couldn't kill me list night and pissed about it?

[Titus]

Someone give me a run down on where we are.

[Titus]

Before sonia locks the thread, i may not be here at the start of day tomorrow.

NO ONE VOTES PERIOD.

UNDERSTOOD?

Scum will blitz your vote if you make an incorrect vote.

Wanna have this here for the start of tomorrow.

1. Nice trolling Cloud. You tricked even ME

2. This needs death right here, right now.

VOTE: rb

Just highlighting the obvious.

[Titus]

@Doc thanks fam I was sure I was dead lmao.

What is this?

I haven't read anything for the record.

[Titus]

So what result did you get last night?

I am seeing a lot of town power that makes me suspect, even without me (which I may or may not be a power role).

[Titus]

I will look at that later.

Did you not see my question?

[Titus]

I saw it, I'm still processing the no kill w/ my result and trying to figure out if I should out it yet.

You should. We just lynched scum. Let's box them in.

[Titus]

I saw it, I'm still processing the no kill w/ my result and trying to figure out if I should out it yet.

You should. We just lynched scum. Let's box them in.

I might be outing the doc over scum. In which case the result is useless, and actually harmful to out.

Do it. Right now, trapping scum is more important than any individual life.

[Titus]

Ok. I would hardly say that's any leads though.

Let's suppose the worst case scenario. You track the doc and out them.
Either that person is conftown and the person they healed is conftown OR scum are forced to CC. That nets us a 1 v 1.
That's not a good position for scum.

There are 8 players alive.
Mislynch
Nightkill
6 tomorrow
Lynch
Nightkill
4 alive
No lynch
Nightkill
Lylo


That's the best scum can hope for if you out your result.

[Titus]

Yup. I am the doctor.

So it's scum's move. Either they conftown me or we fight.

My guess is fight given how the day opened but we'll see.

[Titus]

N1 healed transcend
N2 healed jae
N3 healed jae

I initially picked you because I liked you and skimmed your ISO. I saw you we're tracker and that made Rb's ISO make more Sense.

[Titus]

Why was your priority on replace in to read rb's ISO?

Because I am a doctor. I wanted to look and see his strategy and what worked and what did not to make the right heal.

[Titus]

K. If you've read his ISO and skimmed mine then you should have some kind of reads already?

No. I quickly saw Hillary was losing and got shitfaced.

I will look at the VCs, but the sparing amount + cop guilty will not tell me much.

After everyone posts and I am confirmed town, or scum scumclaim to me, I will focus on reads.

I will try not to direct as much as conftown. I am best when I let things go for awhile and then state the lynch, like in Wake's game.

@Transcend - *sideeye* Either unvote me or not. Don't hide behind mod rules.

[Titus]

I wonder if fakeclaiming VT as town doc is something anyone has ever done before? ROFL.

Sorry I know it's bad for town but that's so shit I have to laugh.

At least my read on Cloud being a potato, albeit a town potato, is now proven correct.

Never go full potato Cloud.

This doesn't look like a slot that is the real Town Doctor with Cloud's fakeclaim.

You are misinterpreting those posts.

He's saying the theory that Cloud is fake claiming Doctor is preposterous. Look at his tone. The entire time, RB thinks we had hit scum because of this trolling.

[Titus]

There is zero reason for the real doctor to CC a hammered man claiming doctor.

I was pretty wasted and depressed last night.

We move on.

VOTE: mhsmith0

He tried to postulate Cloud was the doc JaeReed. You're being hyperconcerned about pocketing that you are not thinking rationally.

[Titus]

I wonder if fakeclaiming VT as town doc is something anyone has ever done before? ROFL.

Sorry I know it's bad for town but that's so shit I have to laugh.

At least my read on Cloud being a potato, albeit a town potato, is now proven correct.

Never go full potato Cloud.

This doesn't look like a slot that is the real Town Doctor with Cloud's fakeclaim.

You are misinterpreting those posts.

He's saying the theory that Cloud is fake claiming Doctor is preposterous. Look at his tone. The entire time, RB thinks we had hit scum because of this trolling.

The posts read fake. My interpretation of that tone is they read fake because Cloud is his buddy, and as such he knows he's not the doc but is trying to make it seem like he doesn't.

You're saying they read fake tonally because he knows Cloud isn't the doc because he is the doc, correct?

Yesish. In both situations, the poster knows Cloud isn't the doctor, so he reacts with that knowledge and treating the claim like it's bunk.

[Titus]

@Titus: here are cleared townies

me
Jae
Impo

if you want to argue that you're a for real doc, you need to

1) Figure out a scum team that actually makes sense given the clears
2) Figure out how a full doc and an odd night weak doc make sense in setup

because you have literally no chance of getting me lynched here. My postings have been EXTREMELY consistent with my role, including my n1 visit to CCC and its result, my reaction to cloud's seeming game throw was EXTREMELY difficult to fake, and my talk in the hood was completely consistent with trying to potentially fake out Io if she was somehow scum.

Zero of these things are reasonably within my scum range.

You mean you visit CCC night 1 and he dies night 2.
I love how you pat yourself on the back saying your reaction was difficult to fake, yet you slipped (and I believe someone quoted it unless that's the liquor talking) that you believed Clod. That isn't a town doctor reaction. A town doctor would know it's a lie and try to hide it, thus generating a fake reaction.
I don't have any idea what you said in the hood, but you are scum.

You have a zero percent chance of getting me lynched and you tried to intimidate me. I stare down fights from scum on a daily basis.

Fight me. In the process, you'll tell me your buddy.

[Titus]

There is zero reason for the real doctor to CC a hammered man claiming doctor.

I was pretty wasted and depressed last night.

We move on.

VOTE: mhsmith0

He tried to postulate Cloud was the doc JaeReed. You're being hyperconcerned about pocketing that you are not thinking rationally.

Correct, but in saying that, there's no reason for the full doc to say much of anything. Wouldn't you rather keep your head down or make a generic "I hope this is a troll." post as the real doc? There's no reason for him to have made the posts he did, claiming that he reads Cloud as basically a VI, after Cloud claimed his role. I can't see the motivation behind doing it as the doc.

I can, however, see smith thinking Cloud could be the even night side to his own role. Especially with a weak modifier. Setup-wise it'd make sense as a kind of buffer against bad town, at least from his pov.

Not all of my points were about you pocketing me. It concerns me that you've decided to boil it all down to that when I feel there's a lot more to it. While it's true that I am concerned about you having come in all buddy-like, I do think that there's potential for that to have been a genuine doc save kind of buddying. Even then, though, I think you would have a bit more paranoia over my slot with the potential for me to have bussed Cloud because I was in a bad situation, then pulled a no kill gambit knowing any town doc would be on me after that.

I'm not mod confirmed town, yet you're treating me as such. That's directly at odds with how I believe you operate. Unless I'm wrong in believing you do not take anything for a given unless it's mod confirmed. I don't think I'm wrong, though. Your town play would have to have changed drastically from when I first joined the site.

You are practically mod confirmed. I healed you. No one died. There is likely no town blocker from my skim. Thus, you are town or scum no killed. Given the extreme number of PR claims still alive, I don't think it's a no kill situation. If you did indeed bus Clod, the players know the tracker eats rope if it lives too long.

Given mhsmith situation, you'd also have to clear townies or have convienent accidents.

[Titus]

There is zero reason for the real doctor to CC a hammered man claiming doctor.

I was pretty wasted and depressed last night.

We move on.

VOTE: mhsmith0

He tried to postulate Cloud was the doc JaeReed. You're being hyperconcerned about pocketing that you are not thinking rationally.

I feel like even in the world where you're town, you should be able to understand why people would doubt your claim thus far. I mean, you yourself said scum was likely to CC you before mhsmith claimed.

Both RB and mhsmith pretended to believe cloud was the doc, and mhsmith doesn't seem to think of you as a direct CC so maybe it wasn't even pretend. Actually oh yeah he said it wasn't. Nonetheless, unless I'm the one missing something here, I don't think you really believe JaeReed's being irrational by doubting your claim with the reasons they gave.

1) I do understand why JaeReed doubts me. I am explaining myself. Do you somehow think I am shading them?

2) No. RB actually posted the opposite. He posted that it was ridiculous to believe Clod fmpov. Believing a doc claim, means that you are not one.

3) Look at mhsmith0 recent posting. He wants a universe where we can exist together do he can coast. He is scum. There are never two doctors.

[Titus]

I am a full doc.

Vote me scum.

[Titus]

I am a full doc.

Vote me scum.

VOTE: titus

Easy game.

I'm actually weak odd night DOCTOR. Lolol wolves.

Now that we've established that I missed your vote, you can stop looking for an exit hatch.

You're scum. You can talk about everyone else to look for an exit hatch. You want a diversion. That's the same reason you talked to me about finding others as if I was town.

Eat rope.

[Titus]

Anyway, I feel like it might be optimal to lynch in VT claims here if there's any doubt about Titus' alignment whatsoever, but maybe I'm just spazzing out. I mean, it probably doesn't matter, but...

Btw, I'm pretty sure this is 100% what not to do in this situation. At least lynching in the doc claims gives us 1 for 1, and we don't have to try to sort between them in lylo. I don't believe there could be 2 town docs. Not even with smith's claim being as swingy as it is.

This. Even if it goes wrong and you lynch me, you get a guaranteed scum lynch tomorrow. Scum kills must be executed in a particular order (eliminating JaeReed (who essentially becomes a cop) for instance). The game is in town's hands if you lynch here.

[Titus]

Btw, I'm pretty sure this is 100% what not to do in this situation. At least lynching in the doc claims gives us 1 for 1, and we don't have to try to sort between them in lylo. I don't believe there could be 2 town docs. Not even with smith's claim being as swingy as it is.

It would require substantial scum power. The problem is, I've seen Normal setups that are closer to role madness than standard normal games, most notably chilledtea's one, which had a five town PR's (mainly shitty ones) and two full scum PR's (mainly designed to tear through town power). Titus could probably attest to that given that she was scum in that game (and I still hold that the setup was ludicrously scum-sided by MS standards, with the ultimate derp moment being when a reviewer decided that when I BG'd someone and died that was more pro town than if I was a doctor and stopped the kill).

Yeah, scum have ridiculous power to explain why we're both town and how you investigate when we have a tracker and heal when we have a doctor.

They don't.

They lack a roleblocker or a strongman as evidenced by JaeReed getting a result on me.

[Titus]

Oh, I love you starting the Titus is good at scum shade.

Your role cannot exist.

Two or three investigatives and a protective while scum can do nothing? Don't think so. That would never pass balance.

You went for more utility in your fakeclaim for the tiebreaker and got busted.

[Titus]

Titus like 90% wolf here tho I think.

Given a few things...

1) Her predecessor's interactions with Cloud
2) Her predecessor's non-reaction to Cloud's doctor claim
3) The fact that her apparent first priority upon replace in was to ISO her predecessor to try and work out who to protect (I'll be blunt here; I don't think Titus would do this as town, because it's akin to trusting someone else's judgement over her own. I don't think she operates that way).
4) She said she liked me and skimmed my ISO to see the claim. I have 2 pages in my ISO, and a lot of it is petty fights with Io, CCC, and Smith, and earlier on, it was coasting the everliving fuck out of this game and sheeping like mad. Skimming my ISO to see my claim would be pretty impressive for someone who doesn't generally read the thread upon replacing in, for one, since it'd be pretty hard to reach my claim through all the crap going on in it, and then you also have to think about the play that she would have seen in my ISO during it. Considering she has seen my play from a mod perspective (Shadowrun) when I've been town and trying, I really doubt that her conclusion upon skimming my ISO was "this is a good protect". Especially given it's Titus we're talking about.

I don't think she can be anything but scum here. Especially because she took the mentor-like interactions where I'm fairly sure she knows how uncertain I can get, and how easy it is to pocket me.

Spoiler:

now watch her flip town q.q like I can't even begin to explain how bad I will feel if she is town here.

@Titus you addressed my concern about being pocketed, your predecessor's non-reaction to Cloud's claim, and you interacting with me as though I'm conftown. Can you address my other points here please? Especially 3 & 4.

Thought I did. My bad.

I looked through the ISO to see where he was right AND wrong. I knew whatever it was, it was true. I had to start somewhere and the truth is good.

I did skim. I had to as doc. As VT, I don't. I cannot randomly submit a protect as doc, when the game stalled waiting on my action. I had to do the best I could.

[Titus]

Oh, I love you starting the Titus is good at scum shade.

Your role cannot exist.

Two or three investigatives and a protective while scum can do nothing? Don't think so. That would never pass balance.

You went for more utility in your fakeclaim for the tiebreaker and got busted.

You do realize that I claimed odd night weak visitor D3, AND claimed my target of Jae, right? I await your theory about why I'd do this in advance of a doc claim which (presuming I'm scum fake-claiming) very well might not exist at all.

You didn't know the roles. You tailored your claim and got caught. Odd night weak is easy to fake, when your target is dead. You CCed me to prevent me from being conftown, because then you're dead by PoE.

[Titus]

Oh, I love you starting the Titus is good at scum shade.

Your role cannot exist.

Two or three investigatives and a protective while scum can do nothing? Don't think so. That would never pass balance.

You went for more utility in your fakeclaim for the tiebreaker and got busted.

You do realize that I claimed odd night weak visitor D3, AND claimed my target of Jae, right? I await your theory about why I'd do this in advance of a doc claim which (presuming I'm scum fake-claiming) very well might not exist at all.

No, you claimed weak visitor. No odd-night affix.

Haha scum got caught changing his claim.

[Titus]

That's still kind of a weird way to out it though |:

also TItus I was more referring to the fact that you called JaeReed "irrational" despite presumably seeing why at this point in time there's plenty of reasonable doubt against you.

Predit: actually, fact-checking is what led me to that error.

Yes. I can expect people to behave irrationally due to their baggage.

Right now, this is an open and shut case to me.
I am the doctor.
mhsmith0 claimed a role that overloads town given how little power scum must have. A weak doctor, gs, and tracker with no scum power.
It would never pass review. Scum would be PoEd unless they made perfect kills.

I asked to be outed because I am the doctor. With the clears we already have, lynching mhsmith0 forces scum to kill me. JaeReed gets another result. Gg scum.

[Titus]

Thought I did. My bad.

I looked through the ISO to see where he was right AND wrong. I knew whatever it was, it was true. I had to start somewhere and the truth is good.

I did skim. I had to as doc. As VT, I don't. I cannot randomly submit a protect as doc, when the game stalled waiting on my action. I had to do the best I could.

So what were you looking for in regards to seeing where rb was right and wrong? Just reads? Or a bit of the reasonings too?

So why in your skim did you believe I was a good protect target, and not likely to be fake claiming and bussing? Did you skim anyone else's ISO while you were at it?

Because of your actions generally. While it's possible, I did know you don't really gambit much. You caught scum. Bussing didn't feel like what was happening. Plus, like as think I said before, eventually you would wind up PoEing yourself or having a lot of dead guy checks.

I don't remember everything I did tbh. I was really drunk last night.

[Titus]

Yes. I can expect people to behave irrationally due to their baggage.

What baggage do you believe could be causing me to behave irrationally here?

Overly concerned with pocketing leading you to selectively question me because you fear buddying because you know I like you.

[Titus]

The latter is better as the doctor is not an investigative role.

I'd probably give the scum an investigative of some sort for balance to help their night kills, like neopolitan or a ninja or both.

[Titus]

@JaeReed I modded Shadowrun mafia, remember? :-p Plus, I have been waiting to play a game with you.

My reason for being concerned is a bit circular. I know I am town. I know you have that fear. I know you are not questioning mhsmith0 as much despite me basically letting you claim my role. It's a bit frustrating and Occam's razor suggest you are acting this way out of fear.

[Titus]

Mhsmith and I are in a 1 v 1. While scumhunting elsewhere is helpful, either he or I will be the lynch today.

That says nothing about the validity or invalidity of your thoughts on Impoetic, but they are GS cleared. Common sense says he's not scum as logically he'd be the one to CC me rather than mhsmith.

[Titus]

Does Hermie normally selectively respond? I get the feeling they are dodging commenting on the 1 v 1 but I wanted to try a softer angle as to get them to let their guard down as scum. That's gone now.

[Titus]

Impoetic is cleared by CCC's gunsmith shot. Not sure what to make of that derpclear attempt; obviously scum would 100% know that Impo was cleared (unless we're truly dealing with lol wolves), so if Hermie genuinely didn't know, then it's a legit derpclear. The problem I have is, I'm skeptical Hermie didn't now, given the seeming effort he made to re-read the thread in order to pick out specific Impo quotes.

Pet theory:

A good scum player comes in and starts coaching Hermie.
Something along the lines of "you need to make a push and start interacting more with the thread. ISO someone and point out posts of theirs that you think could be scummy."
Hermie does just that. Doesn't connect the dots as to WHY Impo has been called conftown since D3.

Am I high or is this plausible?

It would be bad coaching.

A good coach tells them how to push. I have staged a few scumhunts.

It's bad coach, Derp town, or Hermie is really green.

[Titus]

*green in context there means new

[Titus]

Once we get the scum in the doc claims I 100% want Hermie lynched. No questions. Just do it.

If we lynch mhsmith first, I would recommend it.

If we mislynch me first, you'd be in lylo and prone to manipulation.

[Titus]

meh, i'll look back to see if titus/hermie make sense together. def. not tongiht though.

What are your thoughts on their play? You made a big deal about not having narrow focus and now you avoid comments on Hermie.

[Titus]

Who are your few good town reads?

mhsmith0 and Impoetic.

Talk through Impo a bit? What in particular have you seen from her to make her a solid town read? I've been kind of null on her, though honestly I haven't especially focused there so I could have just missed something important.

She's Town because she has empty hands.

...yeah, this won't mean anything yet. If it becomes necessary - that is, if either me or Impoetic are in serious danger of a lynch - then I can go into more detail. If I'm killed by scum, then this post should suddenly make sense, and you'll know everything I know.

I found it. Okay do what you want I'm an idiot.


I looked up gunsmith just now to even see what it was.

Just where are you up to allegedly?

[Titus]

@JaeReed, can you fix the post?

[Titus]

Tbh, I am leaning mhsmith0 and Transcend.

[Titus]

@JaeReed, Yeah, I'd go to his newbie games and compare tone given how close the game is and we only have one mislynch. The language is awkward but is it scum awkward or personal awkwardness? Right now, I am getting null newbie.

[Titus]

Tbh, I am leaning mhsmith0 and Transcend.

spicy. What makes you think me and trans fit together?

Transcends entrance did not make a lick of sense.

He said in twilight nobody vote.
He votes my slot early on entrance.
When he sees it is me, he switches to buddying tone but tries to justify still voting me.
The introduction to me seems to know a CC is coming and he wants to be on my good side.
He also weakly distances from you and vanishes when the CC hits the fan.

[Titus]

Not what I was looking for. Hermie is naturally awkward.

Energy is largely group dependent for some.

[Titus]

Like that second paragraph came out of nowhere but it's useful.

Even if the context fueled the comment, the drastic tone shift reads fake.

[Titus]

We are not even talking about the same posts.

I am talking the shift in Transcends posts from voting RB at the start of the day to when Transcend "notices" its me and kisses my ass.

[Titus]

Yup, mhsmith finds time to defend Transcend but not actually answer on H.

Gg scum. Now it's just convincing JaeReed and I and the rest of the town to do the right thing.

[Titus]

Gn y'all.

[Titus]

Yeah, I don't see how lynching outside the Doctors does anything right now. Mhsmith0 is confirmed scum to me and this smells like a trap to mislynch Hermie and frame me.

[Titus]

I will not vote anyone but mhsmith0 today as he is confirmed scum to me.

[Titus]

VOTE: Hermie

I agree with Trans really.
Titus is not acting in the benefit of the town and I already had suspicions of Hermie.

You're agreeing with scum to lynch town.
Transcend and mhsmith are the scumteam. Balance dictates mhsmith and Transcend comes in to rescue his buddy to push Hermie right as JaeReed posts their suspicions.

That

is buddying.

It is hands down ALWAYS to the benefit of town to lynch confirmed scum. I get you don't agree but me voting anywhere is game throwing.

[Titus]

Titus, if you think about it, lynching outside is best case scenario for you. Even if we're fucking wrong, scum cannot kill the tracker with you as doctor.

I think you're smart enough to acknowledge this, though. And i think you're protecting your partner with your life, so you don't face an auto loss scenario.

This is more shade here.

The autoloss scenario for scum is me and JaeReed alive with only you alive. If mhsmith0 gets lynched, you lose by outright guilty or PoE.

[Titus]

What part of I am only voting confscum today do you not understand?

No amount of shade, provocation, buddying, blackmail, threats or argument will work.

[Titus]

A doctor doesn't crumb though.
Second, mhsmith0 planned the weak fake claim to explain buddying. Of course, you already know that. A weak role crumbs their targets in case they die. Yet mhsmith0 has zero hear of death and his checks are all dead or conftown already.

[Titus]

What part of I am only voting confscum today do you not understand?

No amount of shade, provocation, buddying, blackmail, threats or argument will work.

The fact that it is not the best thing we can do.

No. You are blinded. I do setup spec and I do it well. You always lynch in a 1 v 1 unless there is a mod confirmed guilty elsewhere or doing so can lead to town autoloss.

They don't want you to focus on mhsmith0.

If you insist, the only way that lynch happens is if Hermie is town.
Hermie and I won't vote him. That's two towns saying no. You'll need a scumfuck (read:Transcend) to have it go.

[Titus]

Hey, I am going to lay out our strategy for this endgame here and feedback for this.

First, everyone played well. While I wasn't happy with Transcend imploding at the end based on what likely was a town gambit, it feels understandable he thought it was legit based on play. He was a great sport throughout, trying when he felt it was impossible. Although I may seem critical of him in this analysis, he was quite an ideal scum partner doing his best and telling me exactly what he felt and needed. Hopefully he takes this as general tips. Onto the game itself.

Transcend gave me all the claims when starting, which is a very helpful thing to do. JaeReed was correct in that I normally don't read on subbing in. If I was legit a doctor, I would have read the whole thing though. Determining who to heal based off a skim doesn't make too much sense. Yet, at daybreak, my claim depended on what JaeReed did. They did track me. That combined with mhsmith's role forced the doctor claim.

With all the suspicion on Hermie, I set out on making Hermie look like my buddy rather than explaining why he was awkward town. Hermie would naturally like me too given him being awkward town. That helps in two ways. First, if I won the 1 v 1, we'd win due to my buddy like defense. Second, if I lost the 1 v 1, Transcend was gifted a mislynch in Hermie and we distanced hard.

Transcend's move away from that hurt. That set up a scenario where if JaeReed tracked me again, they had high odds of winning unless I could sell an even night roleblock/strongman. Given mhsmith0 was oddnight, this would rightfully be laughed at.

Transcend was buddying the crap out of JaeReed and so was mhsmith0. Both town and scum do it, but I avoided it as much as possible because I knew they would be paranoid.

Good game.

[Titus]

I do feel Sonia was let down a bit by the reviewers, not to take away from a well fought town play. Three or four investigatives versus a rolecop...

[Titus]

I'm pretty sure the thing VW did to get modkilled was the avatar bit btw.

@titus: gj to fight through it, you played well in a tough spot. I think you and trans should have shot me though, since I'd made it clear I was protecting jae and you'd role copped me doc (unless trans was bsing there).

TBH, I went with Transcend assuming the heal would be someone else. I probably misunderstood that as I did change the kill there.

The one kill there did not change the number of lynches and gave us a fighting narrative.

The fact Transcend made this close is a testament to his skill and sportsmanship.

[Titus]

Or I guess Transcend making the kill would have worked too, actually.

If we 100% knew JaeReed would track me, it would be optimal.

Transcend had the better towncred and was needed longer. My job was to set him up, and be expendable.

If it wasn't for the backup, I think he pulls it out even if I lose.

[Titus]

that means a lot coming from you

i really appreciate it

You're welcome. My biggest tip for you is to slow down and step back. Even in that scenario, we had a long as fuck shot of winning if we turned the game into a 2 v 2. There's always an argument. It may not likely work but make them and you'll learn how to read people better as scum. Sometimes, you even win.

[Titus]

Changed his AV to match role.

[Titus]

We forgive you. People got a learning experience from me subbing in.

[Titus]

Io, I replaced RB lol