[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[shaft.ed]

I'd at least provide some mechanism by which the Docs won't overlap their protection. Or make the mafia unable to communicate at night so they can't choreograph separate NK's. And I like the Tracker idea, kinda like a papparazi(sp).

[xyzzy]

Daytalk C10

3 scum
5-7 town
0-1 cop
0-1 doc

Private communication is allowed.

It is exceedingly important that something be done to force people to actually post; this can be a simple "post once per 48 hours or risk replacement" or something strange and neurotic. Either way, a C9 where talking isn't required will result in a postless thread if it can.

One could theoretically, of course, run a game with no thread like this - just have players message each other, and occasionally the mod will PM the players a vote count. This would be an interesting expirement, actually - you could accurately reproduce the experience in the film Cry_Wolf (you all need to see it, NOW)...

Based on suggestions by Kelly Chen!

[Adel]

suggested rule:
"Players must either

vote

,

unvote

, or confirm their vote every 48 hours in the game thread, or face replacement. Prior permission to miss a post will be granted if that player requests it

in the game thread

".

i love this idea, and I really want to see some version of it make it to primetime. i do not, however, like open games which have a random element for role assignments.

[Primate]

The cop would just reveal himself to his innocents and you'd have a confirmed innocent recruiting mason group that'd make it so the cop would never even have to out himself if he gets a guilty result. I would suggest including a Godfather (maybe also randomchance) so the cop doesn't feel the need to tell his innocents his copstatus immediately.

I love the idea, though. I've always been a massive fan of setups that allow you to talk outside the game thread.

[Thok]

Large vanilla with a dash of Koolaid
15 townies
4 scum
1 Odd night killing, unnightkillable SK
(Start with night 1)

[Adel]

SK Collective

4 SK Collective members, each with 1 NK a night.
7 Townies
2 Trackers
2 Doctors, each can protect against 1 NK a night. Can self-protect twice.

Day Start

Each SK has the win condition: "You win if you survive, and/or if

two

SK's survive the endgame."
Each SK knows the names of the other SK's, but they are

not

allowed to communicate outside of the game thread at any time.


I assume the balance needs to be tweaked.

[Thesp]

Mafia games nominated, seconded, and to be queued:

*Monks and Masons
*Quack Mafia (DayStart)
*Pie E7
*Vengeful
*Daytalk 10 (3 Mafia, 7 Townies)

[xyzzy]

I really don't see the game becoming "follow the cop" in any C9 variant, as long as the roles are the same.

A cop really has no good reason to claim early in a 10 player game with no guaranteed doc. Too many results will come up "town" too make this a safe option.

[Simenon]

Large vanilla with a dash of Koolaid
15 townies
4 scum
1 Odd night killing, unnightkillable SK
(Start with night 1)

Seconded

[Max]

Now for my large open coming soon I'm trying to think of standardised roles which I could use. I was thinking of:

3 Mafia
3 Werewolves
2 cops (1 sane, 1 with sanity issues)
2 seers (1 sane, 1 with sanity issues)
1 doc
1 sorcerer
12 Town.

But I started thinking is that balanced enough?

So I came up with:

4 mafia (1GF, 1RB)
4 werewolves (1AW, 1 RB)
2 cops (1 with sanity issues)
2 seers (see above)
1 doc
1 sorcerer
12 town

And after a bit longer I decided why not use a mechanic max style

Like the unlyncher:

4 Mafia (1GF, 1RB)
4 Werewolves (1AW, 1RB)
2 cops (1WSI)
2 seers (1WSI)
1 doc
1 sorcerer
1 unlyncher
11 town

However although I believed that it would be a good idea o have neutral I wasn't sure what role.

I thought maybe I could make it more uncertain

3-4 Mafia with 2 of the following (GF, RB, Cop, 1 shot cross kill immunity)
3-4 Werewolves with 2 of the following (AW, RB, Cop, 1 shot cross kill immunity)
1-3 cops (100% chance first sane, 50%, 0%)
1-3 seers (100% chance first sane, 50%, 0%)
1-2 mafia healing roles (if 2 second martyr)
1-2 were healing roles (if 2 second martyr)
1 unlyncher OR lyncher
However many town.

Or should I (as I was going to) Create something like C9+++ to make it a tad more closed set-up.

Please post all ideas appreciated

[Max]

Thanks everyone is anyone actually going to comment

[pablito]

You don't get to choose what setup you will use in the Open Game Queue. As for balance, I find it funny how you started off with 3 v 3 v town w/power and then later added the 4th PLUS extra powers to the mafia.

Also, you need to ask yourself if it's going to be an easier game to run if you have both a GF/AW plus investigative roles with sanity issues.

Then once you get into the unlyncher role in the setups, plus the randomization, I think you veer off course and start getting into themed territory instead of Open Game Queue.

I liked how the post with your setup started, but after you started to doubt yourself and tweak everything, you made the game more complex. I think you went into a direction which could be feasible (not sure on balance though) for a large themed game, but is definitely not appropriate for Open Game Queue.

Max, I'm not sure if you understand the process with the Open Game Queue. If you do, then I'd suggest keeping the setup simple. If you don't, please read how it works and then check if the Theoretical Game Setup Discussion Thread would be more appropriate for you.

And being sarcastic will only help you get your setup viewed. It's a proven fact.

[Kelly Chen]

Now for my large open coming soon I'm trying to think of standardised roles which I could use. I was thinking of:

3 Mafia
3 Werewolves
2 cops (1 sane, 1 with sanity issues)
2 seers (1 sane, 1 with sanity issues)
1 doc
1 sorcerer
12 Town.

But I started thinking is that balanced enough?

I don't like only 3 mafia in a 20p game, let alone a 24p game with a second scum group to help kill them.

But yeah you don't get to pick your setup. Run this as a large normal, or maybe that's what you meant.

[Kelly Chen]

Actually maybe a few other comments:

3-4 Mafia with 2 of the following (GF, RB, Cop, 1 shot cross kill immunity)
3-4 Werewolves with 2 of the following (AW, RB, Cop, 1 shot cross kill immunity)
1-3 cops (100% chance first sane, 50%, 0%)
1-3 seers (100% chance first sane, 50%, 0%)
1-2 mafia healing roles (if 2 second martyr)
1-2 were healing roles (if 2 second martyr)
1 unlyncher OR lyncher
However many town.

If you do a semiopen setup, I'd say you're introducing uncertainty at the expense of confidence in the balance being right. I think you should try to avoid undermining the uncertainty by making it possible to deduce which setup was selected. (edit: "by making" goes with "undermining" not with "avoid.")

For example, in the above setup, if you are a mafia-martyr, you know there is no other mafia-martyr. And the mafia-doctor (guaranteed to exist) knows there's no other mafia-doctor. That means mafia can't claim any healing role without a risk of being directly counterclaimed.

The situation with the cops seems a little better.

I don't like "1 unlyncher or lyncher," although it's mitigated by these not being protown roles. Basically I don't like that if you're the unlyncher, you know there is no lyncher, and vice versa.

I think this setup has too much potential to be unbalanced for the town against one of the scum groups but perhaps not the other. If I understand your setup correctly, it's possible for the town to have 2 sane mafia-cops, 1 insane mafia-cop, a mafia-doc, and a mafia-martyr. That's a lot.

[Max]

I never said the martyr would get told they are martyr I may word it so the PMs say "You are a doctor you have always wondered whether you would die for your cause"

[Kelly Chen]

You didn't have to say it, it's standard for roles to know what they are.

Yes, you could word the PM that way, and fix the issue.

edit:
Actually I think it would be better if it were 1-2 healing roles and

each one

has a 50% chance of being a martyr (with or without knowing it).

[IH]

Somebody explain how chosen works and nominate it. IRC setup.

Multirole too.

[shaft.ed]

Nominate Crush Nightless

[Kelly Chen]

I guess I should start pointing out that Crush Nightless is busted (can't complete) in a godfather-lyncher-target endgame.

Maybe Crush A is still viable, since the target can be nightkilled without the town knowing, but I haven't put a ton of thought into it. The difference is that the endgame godfather-formerlyncher-townie becomes a possibility. In that scenario the lyncher is free to vote for the mafia. I guess this means that even if the last townie is actually the target, he doesn't know that, so he can't assume that one of the other two players is required by his role to vote for him.

Hrm hrm.

[Thestatusquo]

I really don't see the game becoming "follow the cop" in any C9 variant, as long as the roles are the same.

A cop really has no good reason to claim early in a 10 player game with no guaranteed doc. Too many results will come up "town" too make this a safe option.

Did you even read his concerns at all? He said that since a cop doesn't have to post in the game thread, he can reveal himself ONLY to his innocent results, thus forming a recruiting mason group. Since he can tell them outside of the thread his guilties, he again never has to claim...

[skitzer]

Here's my first idea, I don't know if it will be good or not, but here goes.

C9 and the KTTN

2 Mafia
4-5 Town
0-1 Cop
1 Innocent Kitten

For clarification on the Innocent Kitten.

You are an Innocent Kitten. You cannot vote, but if someone casts the lynching vote or kills you, They will feel bad and not be able to vote or do role actions for the remainder of the game. You win when there are no more Mafia.

[Adel]

why have a random element in the role assignments?

[Thok]

What happens if the Kitten tries to vote?

I suspect that the Kitten will be outed as a kitten relatively soon day 1, as I don't think the potential for scum NKing the Kitten is worth the potential loss of participation day 1.

[Yosarian2]

Also, I don't like the whole "can't vote or do actiosn for the remainder of the game". If they can't vote, and can't do anything at night, you might as well just kill them; otherwise they are just basically irrelevent to the game, and just make lynches harder.

[xyzzy]

C/9

(pronounced See Ninths)

2 scum
1/9 chance that each additional player will either be a cop or doc.
10-# of power roles townies

The odds of each player being a power role is calculated, and then either cop or doc is randomly selected for each power role.

There's approximately a 30% chance ((8/9)^10) of this being vanilla.