In post 2008, nn30 wrote:Town would be attempting to work with me and get me on their side. Because. Ya know. We need to work together to find scum.
In post 2019, implosion wrote:
Scum would be attempting to work with you and get on your side. Because. Ya know. They need to not die to win the game.
You guys are doing that thing again where you're projecting based on personality. Some people manipulate through cooperation, others, through hissy fits (AtE). Unless you guys know how Penguin plays, you have no way of knowing whether these weird tantrums are AI/NAI. Better to look at motivation.
It helps you sort between personality and pathology. It's easy to say that meta is crap when you don't know any of the players (or you want them to not meta-read you), but it has its value.
Post
Post #2062 (isolation #202) » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:40 pm
Postby nn30 »
In post 1972, PenguinPower wrote:
This is funny. Sorry, just want to call this one out for endgame
(and as a blatant lie)
. None of my scum games have been anywhere close to this one. Feel free to meta me, anyone.
It was this, actually. Calling me a liar is what moved my weak scum read to a strong one. The
only
reason for me to lie would be if I were scum. Calling me a liar is implying that Penguin scum reads me. Scum reading me flies in the face of what everyone else in this town, except for Shadow_Step, has done to this point in the game. Either Penguin is town and not paying attention, or this was a scum slip.
Since then, Penguin has been misconstruing why I scum read him strongly enough to vote him.
To my eye:
Boring asks me what I think his motivation calling me a liar is (2052).
I say it's to subvert my credibility (2054).
And Penguin chooses to respond by pointing to posts which I never said contained him attempting to do this (2061).
And he still hasn't answered why he chose to call me a liar. After I've repeatedly asked him.
Ditch the meta argument. It isn't the source of the strength of my read on him.
Post
Post #2172 (isolation #210) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:11 pm
Postby nn30 »
In post 2171, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Lynch within in boring, Grendal, Penguin, and Shadow or if not lynch Zoro because that's where my vote is going to be parked on.
This isn't even the correct version of Gamma's plan.
Gamma's "outside LUV / Zoro" grouping is myself, Grendel, PP, Prism, and Boring. He specifically said to leave out the likely town Shadow.
Post
Post #2189 (isolation #212) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:27 pm
Postby nn30 »
Gamma - can you link me to when LUV got mislynched previously? I remember you saying something about it happening in the last game you were in with him.
Post
Post #2217 (isolation #216) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:54 am
Postby nn30 »
The kill also suggests that Boring is town. She spent most of day one scum reading LUV. Unless she's scum of the 'let's bus on day one before pressure has built' variety, then she's actually just town.
Also I think LUV is scum and everyone should be voting there.
Damn it Shadow.
I wanted you to be scum after you naked vote me to start the day - but apparently this is just your style.
The above quote scum reads LUV so early that you either plan your scum games well in advance (in which cause, hats off to you please take your win you deserved it) or you're town.
For the sake of argument and clarity - two things could be happening here.
1) You're scum who planned a fake claim which successfully got Eager killed as well as planted fake scum reads on your scum buddies to throw off suspicion down the line.
Post
Post #2222 (isolation #218) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:10 am
Postby nn30 »
In post 2218, Zoronos wrote:She was likely town for her near-constant pressure on LUV yesterday. I owe her an apology. The kill selection is irrelevant to her towniness.
The kill suggests that the scum have a roleblocker or a strongman (or just correctly out-meta'ed me, or are in swing for the fences YOLO mode). But I hate NK speculation, so that's as far as I'm willing to go.
I never said anything about kill selection. Why do you bring it up here?
Are you saying you jailed Gamma and were role blocked then?
In post 2222, nn30 wrote:I never said anything about kill selection. Why do you bring it up here?
In post 2217, nn30 wrote:The kill also suggests that Boring is town.
Ahh, thanks for pointing that out.
I misspoke.
My brain was somewhere else while my hands typed.
"The kill" is supposed to mean LUV lynch. We "killed" him. You'll see that substitution makes sense in the context of what I also said in 2217. Full quote for those interested.
In post 2217, nn30 wrote:The kill also suggests that Boring is town. She spent most of day one scum reading LUV. Unless she's scum of the 'let's bus on day one before pressure has built' variety, then she's actually just town.
Keep in mind I'm new to this forum. This is only my second game. Screwing up the lingo is gonna happen.
Post
Post #2241 (isolation #226) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:56 am
Postby nn30 »
In post 2238, Zoronos wrote:Also, I would recommend ignoring RVS-era votes on LUV. I find scum love to vote scumbuddies during RVS or similar.
If it never materialized into anything resembling a real train (or if it did become one and they promptly looked for reasons to hop off), in my mind it is no credit.
Bear with me here.
I've basically gone back on all my strongest scum reads this game. After this game is over, I'm going to have to have some long hard talks with people on how to correctly scum hunt because I very cleary am not doing it correctly.
Would you be convinced by this vote analysis, then? I'm looking specifically at the LUV votes and Prism. We could also add boring to this but you and I are in agreement with her it seems and Gamma is dead so I'm leaving him out of it.
This is the first vote count that includes Prism voting LUV. His vote stayed there the rest of the day (even though there were a number of opportunities to hop off). Is that enough to clear Prism?
I also see what you're saying with RVS era votes. The Penguin vote is from page nine - I believe we were out of RVS by then.
Post
Post #2265 (isolation #229) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:13 pm
Postby nn30 »
In post 2264, Zoronos wrote:I already went over why this is likely, and it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the fact that it was Gamma that was killed. The short version is no sane scum team kills Gamma over me without some jail breaking ability.
I'm outta the loop here. Boring mentioned it too - which makes me think I've missed something.
Post
Post #2266 (isolation #230) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:22 pm
Postby nn30 »
@Zoronos - after 2264, if you're scum I'm scared for all of us btw.
@Grendel - please check my 1971. It's the best counter I have to the vote analysis you've put up (which looks pretty bad admittedly - if you're scum A+ for finding this little nugget).
@Town - does Grendel hopping on feel opportunistic to anyone else? Or does his case on me feel legit? Penguin don't answer - I already know what you'll say.
The only thing stopping me from voting Grendel right now is that he's my counter wagon. I don't want to hop on someone I previously town read just because he's voting me.
Post
Post #2274 (isolation #233) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:09 pm
Postby nn30 »
@Zoro - or trigger-happy town play. Or bad town play. Which, based on how I haven't seemed to hit the mark with any of my reads, it's probably just bad town play.
I see your point though about it being scummy play. Thanks coach.
I did an ISO of Grendel - and got more town pings.
More proof I don't actually know what I'm trying to look for in identifying scum.
Post
Post #2279 (isolation #234) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:49 pm
Postby nn30 »
@Prism - Cool, thanks for answering my question.
Please ISO boring and look for her interactions with LUV. Does her scumreading / pushing for his lynch a significant portion of day one and all of day two change your read on her?
p-edit - not even how early she wanted LUV on day one?
@Zoro - I asked prism about implosion because I thought Gamma had the potential to give incorrect cop reads (crazy cop or w/e that role is). I now realize that doesn't make sense since we have Gamma's role now. :/
I'll give you more on Grendel tomorrow. I need to go to bed.
Post
Post #2295 (isolation #235) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:23 am
Postby nn30 »
In post 2294, Shadow_step wrote:I've been giving boring a free pass so far because people seemed to be a soft target and people voting her because of her previous games as scum.
When I attacked LUV on day 1, boring had a "problem" with it.
I think one of [boring, prism] has to be scum because of LUV's readlist.
I think you're reading way too much into LUV's read list.
Post
Post #2296 (isolation #236) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:42 am
Postby nn30 »
Let's talk about Grendel. Last night I flip flopped on my stance on him a bunch. Truth is I just don't know what he his and my uncertainty is reflected in my flip flopping. I'm going to ISO him and LUV and see if anything that happens strikes me. I will not edit anything I write down as I go through this process - the intention is to show you my thought process and reactions to the ISO as I do it. I will make a conclusion statement at the very bottom.
Spoiler:
In post 36, Grendel wrote:Hi, as this is my first post I'd like to say that I look forward to matching wits with you all!
His post of the game - so I'll come right out and acknowledge that this is thin. The way this is worded feels like a me vs. them mentality ("...matching wits with
you all
!") I read this as scum.
Spoiler:
I re-read his RQS analysis. Originally it felt towny (lots of effort) but on re-read it could also be scum faking content. I didn't quote it here for space reasons.
Spoiler:
In post 215, Grendel wrote:Zoronos: He is clearly underestimating my ability to read between the lines. He didn't submit answers to the set, but I value peoples reactions to RQS highly, and use them as part of my RQS analysis.
I find that it is common for scum planning to go deep to try and play the “voice of reasoning”, they’ll either treat me like mislead town and correct me, or they’ll correct me while throwing a light scum read my way.
Often the ones who choose to paint me as misleading scum are not going to push me. The ones opting to town read me will dig their heels in when I, or they, are questioned about their stance. Clearly Zoronos is falling into the first category. He insists RQS is pro-scum, throws out a light scum read my way, but doesn’t show any desire to push said scum read. In fact if appears that he is back tracking in his next post. If in this instance Zoronos is scum there is a good chance that he is the ‘leader’ of his posse, and that his scum buddies are less experienced players then he is. Scum.
His RQS analysis on Zorono is interesting. The bolded sentence slightly parallels my own interactions with Zoronos this game. 1) Zoro is absolutely being the voice of reason this game and 2) he's corrected my play a few times. This is interesting and makes me want to re-read Zoro. It's possible that Zoro / Grendel are a scum team and Zoro told Grendel his play style in scum chat - which is reflected here. A Zoro/Grendel team is possible to me since neither of them are in my hard town category at the moment.
Something else from his RQS analysis - of the 3 dead townies, Grendel had 2 of them pegged as town from RQS and one null. Of the dead scum, he had a null here as well. The lack of inaccuracy on these four is interesting. If Grendel flips scum at some point refer to this post - it may be useful. I think his scum partners would be in the town or null reads.
In post 302, Grendel wrote:Oh and, I'm about to get really busy on something, and won't be on tonight.
See you all tomorrow... evening?
Putting the answers to the random questions completely aside, can you point to why Penguin is scum, based on things he's posted in game?
His wagon on Lil Uzi Vert is easy. Lil is non contributing and anti town, but his play is a largely null tell for me because he did this exact same thing as town last time I played with him. Heck I, as scum, pushed to get Vert lynched with the same reason that Penguin is here. That Vert is “fence sitty and his lack of stances make him scum lordz”. Lil is a great wagon for scum!Penguin because he can push this wagon through with little consequence once Vert were to flip town.
His move to Gamma isn’t much better because Gamma is known for taking things at face value. Like Gamma is hard town reading, and defended me because I opened with RQS. This is because I played a game as scum where I didn’t open with RQS. When the reason I didn’t open had more to do with me subbing into a game with 20+ pages then my alignment. It’s the same thing with Vert, Gamma has an experience with town!Vert being fence sitty and non-contributory, so he thinks Vert is town here. Penguin’s biggest reason for voting Gamma is because Gamma tr Vert, everything else seems like that Penguin seems to find scum about Gamma looks like pretty normal Gamma play too honestly.
Basically Penguin has only pushed for wagons on easy players.
I also don’t care for announcing I’m town without explaining why. All the more awkward considering that he seemed to think i was scum, (or bad town), just one page earlier. I only posted a couple thought in between those points. I don't see how Penguin would have come to that conclusion as quickly as he did based solely on that. All I really did was defend my RQS, and tell Penguin that calling me "scum, or bad town" is an ugly knee jerk reaction. I could totally see Penguin as scum backing off because he decided I wasn't an easy lynch.
I think this singlehandedly removes Grendel/Penguin/LUV as a scum team. As scum I don't see myself putting myself and my two buddies in the same post with this much meat in it.
I've bolded Grendel's defense of LUV. At the time of this defense there were zero votes on LUV - making the likelihood of Grendel attempting to defend his scum partner higher than if LUV was about to be lyched. Relevantly, this also came after LUV's (in hindsight) terrible 246 where LUV fails to provide proof that he was trying to solve the game and instead summarizes what has already happened. Grendel still chose to defend him. Feels scum.
Spoiler:
In post 456, Grendel wrote:I've been trying to hunt for the whole team all at once so I can avoid tunnels.
I'm beginning to wonder if I should look outside of these two for a bit.
In post 573, Grendel wrote:I guess I'm not reaching a conclusion tonight.
In post 573, Grendel wrote:I guess I'm not reaching a conclusion tonight.
These three quotes occurred 30 minutes apart. This is either really detail oriented scum who is methodically leaving breadcrumbs, or towny. This post feels towny to me.
Spoiler:
In post 604, Grendel wrote:@LUV Lets chat a bit:
How do you feel about the two leading wagons, as well as the individuals on them?
And if this were EoD which wagon would you join?
In this hypothetical situation where would you look next if the one you picked flipped scum? if they flipped town?
I want you to take more active stances. Your note taking, and your otherwise low key posting is not helping me get a hold on your alignment friend.
The only example I've found of LUV and Grendel directly interacting. LUV did not respond to it and Grendel didn't push him further.
Makes me feel like Grendel is town. If my scum partner asked me a question, I'd answer it because #teamwork. LUV could also have just missed it. Still, I'm leaning town Grendel on this this post/interaction.
Spoiler:
In post 1648, Grendel wrote:Luv looks worse in retrospect then I first thought.
LUV was tied for the largest wagon at two votes when Grendel said this. Scum testing the waters for a bus or town identifying a scum read? To me, I think Grendel feels towny here.
Spoiler:
In post 1710, Grendel wrote:Luv is all over the place and I'm having trouble pacing him. I definitely didn't like his hammer, or the unnatural transitions in his reads. I can't help feeling like it is all to easy though.
More thoughts on LUV. Feels appropriately cautious - bread crumb again and town again.
Spoiler:
In post 1798, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I'm a little disturbed by Penguin's push on Zoro. It reads as if he's not been reading what Zoro been asking and thinking. Just skimming. Zoro has been sorting like a mad man and his conclusions and observations have been worth the read so far.
As I near the end of this ISO, my feelings on Grendel are leaning fairly hard town. Which brings me to needing a Zoro re-read. LUV fawning over Zoro here is definitely alignment indicative, I'm just not sure in what way. The first thing that comes to my mind is that LUV hard town read me a while back. Assuming LUV is consistent in his deception attempts, this makes me think Zoro is town rn.
Spoiler:
In post 1823, Grendel wrote:I'm okay with LUV getting lynched, but my top priority right now is Gamma.
Another post about LUV from Grendel with the "I'm okay with a lynch here, but I want to look elsewhere" feeling. Either he's prolifically leaving bread crumbs as scum or he's town.
@Grendel - please look at the following spoiler. It has stuff in it specifically for you.
Spoiler:
In post 1847, Grendel wrote:-The way the Penguin Power handles LUV feels off to me. I may need to look into this more in future.
In post 1959, Grendel wrote:Funnily enough I would like to see Penguin lynched now that Gamma is highly likely town. But I don't trust you at all. I mean I'd be just as content with yours as Penguin's lynch right now.
I'd like your current thoughts on these statements, Grendel, now that we know LUV was scum and Gamma was town.
Flailing scum are unlikely to go down by attempting to send votes to their scum buddy. Gives Zoro town points. Granted, Zoro feels intelligent enough to tell LUV to plant this seed once he recognied LUV was going to die for sure. Still, this gives Zoro town points in my eyes.
Conclusion:
I started this read with a bit of Scum!Grendel conf bias in action. As I went through the ISO, I found more and more reasons to town read him instead. The biggest one is that there are a number of thoughts about LUV which he posted which, if Grendel were scum, were deliberately placed bread crumbs. I may be underestimating scum skill levels on this site, but this level of foresight is unthinkable to my own abilities so I'm discounting it here.
Tangentially, I found a few reasons to town read Zoro whereas I had him as null before this.
That being said I think it's
very
important that we have a pretty locked and loaded consensus on Zoro being town. He is such a persuasive and logical voice that if he's scum, and he's misleading us, it would mean the game for us.
Please, go through and find scummy reasons for me to be tunneling Gamma, Boring, Shadow, you, and briefly Implosion.
Would you do me a solid and quote your reasoning for tunneling each of these people? (I honestly don't feel like slogging through iso's tonight)
I can't speak for the others, but I seem to recall you were on the tail end of the Gamma wagon, and that your biggest point against him was his inability to keep his reads straight. Right?
I just spent 2 hrs on my last post (isoing you and LUV), so I'm going to wing this one from memory rather than quoting past me. I too do not want to slog through iso's.
Gamma - forgot his reads a whole bunch. A meta read on him where I found in his previous town games he didn't make an effort to state his town reads (which he did a lot of early in day one).
Boring - the easy flip on Eager snake is what did it for me. Once Shadow countered him, Eager dropped from high town read straight down to top scum read.
Shadow - I thought Shadow's conclusion that Eager couldn't be a town ascetic was based on too many unlikely assumptions. At the time, Shadow was assuming that 1) Eager was lying about being ascetic which means that 2) Eager chose to lie specifically about being town ascetic (instead of a more common role such as Miller) and 3) the mod ALSO gave Shadow the very same obscure role that Eager was choosing to lie about.
Instead of seeing the two of them as town, I chose to see Eager as town and Shadow as gambling scum.
Penguin - he reacted weirdly to my having him in a pile of "not town" based on a meta read. He then accused me of lying about my meta read on him which I took as a scum action.
Implosion - I don't know this one from memory (this was a month ago after all). I'll give you the iso quotes instead.
In post 132, Gamma Emerald wrote:VOTE: Implosion
Serious vote. He doesn't talk about LUV at all but then votes him. Trying to flashwagon are we?
I'm trying to figure out if I agree with you on this one or not.
Implosion's logic and stances seem, to me, to be very confused.
It seems like he's holding contradictory opinions and trying to justify them after the fact because he was playing off gut and didn't think through whether they made sense together (which leans towny).
My gut doesn't like his post, but I think that's because a lot of it is talking about himself. I want to call him scummy for that, but he's responding to a direct question about his behavior, so talking about himself makes sense. He's answering a direct question after all.
So basically my head and my gut disagree on that slot.
I'm inclined to agree.
In 61 Implosion makes some
really
thin analysis based on well... not much.
Also, in 61 he gives a reason for snake being scummy. In 62 snake calls him out on it (why don't you vote me then?) and in 64 he goes on to ask Zoronos why he didn't follow up his scumread with a vote. He ends 64 by voting Zoronos.
Here's what the problem I have with that exchange - he doesn't vote anyone in 61 himself (which contradicts his line of questioning to Zoronos in 64). After snake calls him out in 62, he claims to have a "number of reasons" to not vote for snake (wut?) and then goes on to vote Zoronos.
The play feels reactionary - he felt afraid of snake being so direct with him so instead of going toe to toe with Snake, he deflects and votes for Zoro.
VOTE: implosion
Spoiler:
In post 231, nn30 wrote:Also, implosion went dark after leaving his vote on luv. It's been ~18 hours since he last posted (compared to some pretty heavy activity on his part early on).
He could just be lurking for legit reasons.
Or he could have started lurking in response to getting some heat and just let the thread move past thinking about him.
1)I think Implosion and nn30 are town, Penguin is scum.
I think you and Diefire are town, and boring I have as null.
If Gamma flipped scum I would probably reconsider my reads on everyone.
2) If Gamma flipped town I would look at boring, Diefire and Implosion.
If Penguin flipped scum, I would look at Implosion and Shadow.
If Penguin flipped town, I would probably reconsider my reads on everyone.
@Dier - thanks for pointing that out. I missed it the first time around.
I posted the response here and bolded a couple lines, and then gave myself a WIFOM headache.
On the one hand I don't want to trust the words of conf scum. On the other hand (looking at line 1) above), Implosions is cop cleared and I know my role assignment. Which makes me think Penguin is scum? Since the other people on that line turned out to be accurate? Or should I take it as penguin is town and LUV was just bsing.
Line 2) easier for me to interpret. I can read that as "if i'm still alive, and Gamma is town, let's look here for a mislynch." I don't think this is bussing territory - I think this is LUV, from the grave, telling us who town is. This is good because 2/3 people he names as fishy here (Boring / Implosion) I have really high on my town list and it includes Dier which I needed a way to sort.
I could also be reading into this too much.
*Shrug*
Anyone with experience reading the musings of dead scum want to chime in here? I don't have any game experience to fall back on - I'm deferring to the help of my town. I trust
Prism, Boring, Implosion
with answering this as I think they're least likely to be scum (and to mislead me with their answer).
Regarding your read on Grendel: what do you mean by "bread crumbs" there? Most of the interactions that you have flagged as such seem to be those in which Grendel expresses mild to moderate suspicion of Lil Uzi Vert but does not vote for him. To me, it does not seem unlikely that a Mafia player would decline to defend a partner who was under suspicion but also not vote for that partner; however, you seem to be reading these interactions as evidence that Grendel is Town. Is that correct?
My second question (if you are still working then this is for when you finish) is whether you are moving your vote.
For the record, I am reading Zoronos strongly as Town and willing to lock into that barring role-related shenanigans.
UNVOTE: Grendel
Thanks for reminding me to unvote.
Yes - I am flagging these interactions and I considered two possibilities of their existence.
1) Scum testing the water of a LUV lynch and leaving bread crumbs which he can point back to in the mean time.
2) Town airing out his thoughts.
I am leaning strongly towards two since breadcrumbing seems waaaaaay too hard to me to do correctly.
Post
Post #2308 (isolation #240) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:31 am
Postby nn30 »
Here's where my read list is.
Conf town:
implosion (cop cleared)
I have confidence in these town reads:
Prism (he intentionally draws attention to himself for people to state reads on him as scum wouldn't do).
Boring (wanted LUV's booty for two days)
Shadow_Step (day one CC wouldn't have come from scum as it's too risky)
Zoronos (LUV flail voted him - there's a world where Zoro is still scum, but I don't want to live in it)
Weak town read:
Grendel - bread crumb argument. I want people to chime in here who have experience in the site and either confirm or deny that scum have left breadcrumbs in their games.
Null:
Dierfire
Scum:
PP (process of elimination and lack of a reason to town read him for me)
I popped up an ISO of dierfire since I STILL can't sort him and the first thing he did is vote Penguin and put him at 4 votes, which makes them unlikely scum partners to my eyes.
Which, if I'm accurate in my town reads, adds fire to the Grendel is scum argument. Again.
I'm done posting walls for the day - I want other people's opinions on stuff.
Post
Post #2310 (isolation #242) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:43 am
Postby nn30 »
In post 2070, Dierfire wrote:My vote is for boring. I haven't seen many good reasons to read her as Mafia, but I've seen none to read her as Town and I think that the VC shows, at a minimum, Mafia players avoiding her wagon.
@Dier - is the fact that Boring was so strongly interested in lynching LUV enough of a reason to town read her and get you to rethink this statement?
Post
Post #2313 (isolation #243) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:36 pm
Postby nn30 »
In post 2311, Zoronos wrote:A quick note while I'm packing - NN I want to respond to your big post in depth, because I disagree with some of your conclusions but the short version is this:
Regarding your read on Grendel: what do you mean by "bread crumbs" there? Most of the interactions that you have flagged as such seem to be those in which Grendel expresses mild to moderate suspicion of Lil Uzi Vert but does not vote for him. To me, it does not seem unlikely that a Mafia player would decline to defend a partner who was under suspicion but also not vote for that partner.
I find scum tend to mark their scum buddies as 'neutral' and will constantly express mild to moderate suspicion on them *while not pushing them*. That is classic distancing. "Yeah A is scummy but let's all vote B" is scum play 101. So those things you flag as 'breadcrumbs' to me are potential setups to join the bus in case LUV goes down. Which is basically what happened yesterday. Those were specifically the things that led me to conclude he might be scum with LUV.
They also will largely ignore their partners (since they don't have a motivation to 'sort' them), and as you noted there's about one Grendel post where he actively addresses LUV. And then, as you note, LUV declines to address it. That feels to me like he doesn't care about the answer or feel like he needs to address it. When I'm scum, I try to answer town questions (since town will try to kill me). I know I can safely ignore questions from my scumbros, since they usually will not try to lynch me if I don't answer / answer poorly.
Furthermore, Grendel not following up on his question being ignored indicates that he doesn't actually care about the answer.
Also, in your fifth quote you quoted the same thing twice, but said 'these three quotes'. What did you actually mean to quote there?
Yeah - you're swaying me here pretty considerably. This is well reasoned and I'm willing to defer to it over my initial impression (my scum hunting leaves quite a bit to be desired).
Fifth quote - pretty sure it was a typo.
I did find it odd that Grendel basically ignored LUV until he started leaving the 'bread crumbs.'
Two questions for you Zoro.
1) Can you find anything outside of what I bolded above to point to Grendel scum?
2) How do you feel about the interactions I included which point to you being town? You seem to think my Grendel bread crumb argument is flawed - are these arguments (which favor you as either alignment I might add) flawed as well?
Last thing - I went back to compare our read lists and ask you about where we differed. Turns out, we don't actually differ at all. This is encouraging.
(I made mine independently of yours. There's a chance you subconsciously impacted mine, but let's not go there)
Post
Post #2320 (isolation #244) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:03 pm
Postby nn30 »
@Grendel - the boring wagon where I'm the lone unflipped person (except for Boring of course). Keep in mind that scum have control of NK's. They chose to kill MariaR first day. That could have been me and you'd be saying the same thing to an unflipped MariaR.
It looks hinky, and could add to a case, but it shouldn't be the basis of one. Just like you being jailed and the NK still happening shouldn't clear you of being scum.
p-edit: @Grendel - I am not suggesting you were coaching LUV. I"m suggesting you scum!Grendel saw the writing on the wall (LUV's impending doom) and chose to leave a trail of breadcrumbs suggesting you "thought" about it long enough to seem town when you join the wagon.
@Boring - thanks for the insight. Gun to your head - is Grendel scum?
In post 2320, nn30 wrote:@Boring - thanks for the insight. Gun to your head - is Grendel scum?
He's not the towniest player in the game, but he's not in my bottom two. So probably not as things stand. (you don't have enough gym badges to stop me from turning a yes/no question into a full sentence)
In post 2320, nn30 wrote:@Boring - thanks for the insight. Gun to your head - is Grendel scum?
He's not the towniest player in the game, but he's not in my bottom two. So probably not as things stand. (you don't have enough gym badges to stop me from turning a yes/no question into a full sentence)
@Grendel - what's your current feel on me? I know your vote is still on me. Have your opinions changed at all based on the last few pages?
So one of [Diefire, Grendal, nn30]
and one of [boring, Prism]
I will ISO Prism and LUV together, I haven't looked at it and I don't get the Prism town reads atm.
You're right - the logic of LUV putting his partners on differing tiers makes sense.
At the time I disagreed because, in my mind, Boring was cleared by her insistence of a LUV lynch and I have a powerful town read on Prism. Based on that your one of [boring, prism] argument had to be wrong.
Now that Implosion & Prism have picked apart the Boring v. LUV play, I'm more inclined to think you're on the right path.
@Shadow - a couple questions for you.
1) Will you point to the LUV v. Penguin interactions that you are referring to? I have PP as my top scum read right now and, if I'm wrong, I'd like to know why.
2) Other than myself (since you're obviously already voting for me) who is scummiest among [Grendel, Dierfire, Zoronos]?
In post 2344, Shadow_step wrote:So one of [Diefire, Grendal, nn30]
and one of [boring, Prism]
I want everyone's opinion on this, out of these 5 would have made the kill last night and why?
Not Grendal (jailed last night)
Not Prism. He's too towny.
Diefire or Boring.
Probs Boring - the recent Implosion / Prism posts have pushed my thoughts on her back towards scummy. I don't have a reason to scum (or town) read Diefire and I know my own alignment.
Post
Post #2366 (isolation #255) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:51 am
Postby nn30 »
In post 2312, boring wrote:@nn30 - I appreciate that your mind changed throughout the process. Some thoughts: a) if Grendel flips red, you've put your head on the chopping block
@Prism / Implosion - Another wrinkle.
If your theory is correct, this could be Boring teeing up my mislynch after Grendel flips red.