Mini 523 - Game Over!

[Nudude]

Vote Count

Thanatos (2) - Gorgon, Disciple Slayer
liamcool (1) - charter
Disciple Slayer (1) - Thanatos
Dark_Lady_Shaiann (1) - Nudude

Not Voting (4) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, liamcool, Infinitive, VampyreLord

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Thanatos:

I'm kinda busy at the moment, but I just wanted to chime in with Signing on DS' sig.

I'd like to note that Nudude also missed my post in regards to the questions he was asking me. If he's putting as much effort as he claims, it's a weird habit, especially when both times are in assisting DS. Just curious, is all...

I thanked you and replied to your post in post 607. I found your post to be satisfactory, so I didn't comment on it in particular. Was it another post you were refering to?

[Nudude]

Disciple Slayer

BTW, I see my sig as:

Dark_Lazy_Shaiaan: And...yeah, your right.

Disciple Slayer: I usually am.

I changed the big black cock one a while back

I was refering to your current sig.

[Nudude]

To everyone,

I admit I'm being agressive in my question, but everyone can admit that the strategy needed to be employed to sift out scum is applying pressure, which I am doing. I'm not calling for people to rally to my cause, to put a vote on, or even agree with me. In fact, I'd encourage you to conduct your own individual investigations.

If someone is scum, their not going to make mistakes with light easy questions. I am putting pressure on DLS because I suspect she's scum.

DLS, has there ever been an indication that I don't put effort into this game. I'm enjoying this game, I have all the energy in the world for this game....could it be, just possbily, the reason I'm asking you to be a little clearer in your points, or even a simple, easy to read summary, is because I want to understand what points your trying to make? If we were face to face, I'd ask "Look me in the eye and tell me you geniunely believe I'm a lazy player". Could you do it? On that note, does anyone else think I'm a lazy player?

Do you remember this post?

Well...it is a mini, my first mini, and when the game was going really fast I kind of just skimmed to see if anything was being said about me, and then some how I came across some one elses vote for Lord Nikon, and that was when his name stuck out to me. So....I was just being really careless and fairly newbish. I apologize and will be sure to actually read everything.

Even if you are correct in my assumption that I've simply not been bothered reading your posts, your guilty of it as well!

As I said, it's your choice wether you choose to clarify things, but so far your not doing much to allay my suspicions.

Even after I point out that you spend alot of time defending yourself, and very little scum hunting, you continue to simply defend yourself and not bring anything new to the discussion.

Even if you choose not to clarify your points, and before you accuse me of being lazy, can you at least put in a little effort yourself to reading posts and finding scum, instead of just sitting back and defending yourself when neccesary?

Ok, but what I'm not guily of is voting some one after skimming pages, which is where I have the problem with what you are doing. I'm not accusing you of being lazy because you skimmed, I'm accusing you of voting me after skimming and then asking me to go back and check everything for you. Thats not fair.

I explained my vote in this post.

For clarification, I've voted for DLS because she made her biggest post debating the link between her and Thanatos. I think a townie would make bigger posts in regardings to hunting scum, not defending themselves.

Rather than debate the pros and cons, you debase his posts and call his evidence craplogic.

For example, I could say "Guys, there's been three or four pages of discussion between DLS, DS and Thanatos. There is more than enough evidence there to make a vote on DLS. I think your attacking me because me and DS are on to something and your trying to make it seem like we don't have a case." I could even whack in a FOS for good measure.

Instead, I'm saying your quite right to question me and ask for my reasoning. I don't try to debase you or call your logic crap. I accept that it is a reasonable stance and explain myself.

DS's line of questioning is reasonable, and I don't understand why you would think otherwise. That is why I'm asking for you to clarify for me what exactly it is you are concerned about so I'm not mis interpreting or mis understanding anyone or anything.

So either you've been lazy reading posts, despite earlier in the game promising you'd have more diligence or your trying to mis - represent the facts.

If your trying to mis - represent me, your scum.

I also note you STILL haven't been able to provide any other evidence to indicate anyone else is scum. I would suggest you read some previous posts in this game and see if you can find anything.

[Nudude]

Sorry for not posting sooner, was busy with school and thanksgiving (without power...).

Vote Count

Thanatos (2) - Gorgon, Disciple Slayer
liamcool (1) - charter
Disciple Slayer (1) - Thanatos

Not Voting (5) - Dark_Lady_Shaiann, liamcool, Infinitive, Nudude, VampyreLord

Which comment would that be?

And...yeah, your right.

I usually am.

Watch the egotism, it's not nice for anyone to read, it just makes people think you're an arsehole and makes the game unpleasant for everyone.

I just gave a PBPA and you FOS me for quoting the words of a dead townie? I think your reasoning is flawed. Here's a vote to pressure you into more information.

Vote: Thanatos

Now watch as DLS rushes to defend him in her next post.

I'm actually pretty suprised nobody picked up on this, while it's true we need more information, this seems a little drastic.

Post a good reply to my third and longest HeH quote and I might unvote you if you convince me. My vote was initially a pressure vote, but gut instinct tells me your reaction smells rather odd.

Blackmail, it appears that Disciple Slayer is taking a very aggressive approach, in my view, similar to what deepthought took, which obviously led to his death. Even if it is unlikely, I hope you realise this may lead to your own demise.

If this makes no sense, it's due to me not getting enough sleep recently. If you need to enquire about anything in it, feel free to ask me in about 12-14 hours from this post.

It makes sense, but is entirely pointless. Post something with even a sliver of content or scumhunting if you want me to take my vote off you and stop pushing for others to vote for you.

Also, due to recent evidence:

Vote: Dark_Lady_Shaiann

What evidence?

I was kind of wondering that myself. If you mean where she said she wasn't posting until everyone else posted, and then she did anyway, it was very obvious to me that it wasn't a "lie" she just had something to say and didn't feel like waiting on people like me busy with life.

Personally, I think DS is town. He's doing a LOT of looking for scum, though I don't really agree with all the points he's making, he is making a colossal effort. That said, I also think DLS and thanatos are also town based on how calmly they're handling his aggressive investigation.

I still think liamcool is scum for the reasons I mentioned before, he hasn't done anything to try and explain himself, or even acknowledge my existance. Unless Nudude grossly overeacted to DLS's posts, he'd be my number two suspect right now.

I'd say that's a fair assesment. I like to think so far my questioning of DLS has been logical. If you or anyone finds a flaw in my logic, then by all means point it out so we can discuss it.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

ok...so you voted me becuase I made a long post in defense of myself and becuase you claim that I debased DS's posts and called his evidence crapologic.

The first one I will agree with. It's a long post, big whoop. Did you forget who I was responding to and the history we have? The second one however, never happaned. I already explained that to you, just like how I had to explain it to DS like 3 times. The fact that you keep ignoring that point makes me very suspicious of you. I would suggest you acknowledge that part and think your vote over.

[Nudude]

ok...so you voted me becuase I made a long post in defense of myself and becuase you claim that I debased DS's posts and called his evidence crapologic.

The first one I will agree with. It's a long post, big whoop. Did you forget who I was responding to and the history we have? The second one however, never happaned. I already explained that to you, just like how I had to explain it to DS like 3 times. The fact that you keep ignoring that point makes me very suspicious of you. I would suggest you acknowledge that part and think your vote over.

It's because it's a long post in defense of yourself, and if you read my post fully, you see it is NOT why I voted for you, but evidence for the reason I voted for you, which is it seems the only time you make substainsial posts is to defend yourself.

If you put as much energy into hunting scum as you do when defending yourself, the game would be over already with a townie victory.

I'm suspicious of you for that reason, that you will fight tooth and nail against people making cases against you, compared to the very little energy you put into scumhunting.

I apologise, it was Thanatos that used the words 'crap' and 'logic' in the same sentence, not you. However you clearly don't agree on DS's assesment either, and even then I wouldn't vote for someone just because they used the words 'crap' and/or 'logic' in the same sentence. It is not the reason I voted for you anyway.

I vote for you because you put lots of energy on defending yourself, and very little into scum hunting.

For the third time I'm going to suggest you have a read over the thread and see if you can find anything that you suspect is scummy, and bring it to our attention.

Seeing as how my arguement is based on the fact that you have done very little scum hunting, it would go a long way to debase my case.

Now there are only a couple of reasons I can think of you haven't yet done this:

1) You simply missed it in my posts:

You accused and condemned me for not fully reading your posts! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

2) You ignore my requests:

Is it an unreasonable request? If so, what would be an acceptable compromise?

[Infinitive]

Nudude, I'd like to ask you a question, but before I do so, allow me to offer a touch of commentary.

I find your questioning to be interesting. You've been pushing DLS quite hard over the past couple of pages, provoking some responses that are interesting to me. I haven't bought her defense yet, but, on the other hand, I feel that you're pushing against a person rather than a set of actions. To clarify, it seems to me as if you're putting the screws to DLS more intensely than, in my opinion, her actions would justify. You have noted this, and said that this is simply a playstyle of yours. This leads me to an observation.

Where was this hardcore interrogation on day 1? I don't mean to say that you're scum, but I certainly did not notice this sort of really heavy accuse-and-answer from you before day 2. It seems just a bit odd that you're throwing around your weight so suddenly.

Now, onto my question, and it's a fairly simple one. I have for some time been an advocate of examining Liamcool, and still contend that he is almost certainly scum. However, he has in a very real way ducked under the table on day 2, and as such have given us little to work with, or to provoke discussion. My question is this: Why do you find DLS or Thanatos (as you were questioning both) to be more suspicious than Liamcool? Liam was DT's prime suspect, and HEH also commented a couple of times on the troubling behavior he exhibited. I can't speak for Insurgent, as he wasn't here for long, but it seems to me that the scummiest person to survive day 1 was unquestionably Liamcool (as our suspicion of Thanatos mostly stems from the sour lynch), and I'm honestly surprised that more people aren't interested in investigating him.

[Gorgon]

I've finally caught up with this game again ... I think. It's pretty hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in all these multiple long posts and arguments over things I'm not sure I'm following clearly.

This particularily caught my eye though:

I was kind of wondering that myself. If you mean where she said she wasn't posting until everyone else posted, and then she did anyway, it was very obvious to me that it wasn't a "lie" she just had something to say and didn't feel like waiting on people like me busy with life.

Exactly what I thought when I saw DLS getting attacked for saying she "lied". It wasn't about anything important; just a common enough expression, IMO. She said she wasn't going to post until everyone else has posted, and then she changed her mind. Yet DS is attacking her for having "lied". It doesn't make sense to me. It looks to me like he's throwing everything but the kitchen sink at her and clutching at straws. It almost makes me think there's some major scum distancing going on here, but the problem with that theory is that they were going at it pretty hard on Day 1 too. I can see scum setting up a huge fight overnight, but hardly on the first day when there's been no time to discuss anything beforehand.

Other thoughts ...

I find Nudude's vote on DLS to be rash, but I guess that goes for a lot of the votes that have been cast today. It's not like there's even a bandwagon going.

It looks to me like liamcool has kind of slipped between the cracks today, while others have been active with their debates. I was pretty much the #2 lynch candidate yesterday, and he hasn't contributed an awful lot today, so he's not looking any better. I have a nagging feeling that at least one scum is pretty much sitting this day out, and liamcool fits this bill perfectly. So does VL, come to think of it.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

Ok.....I had a nice little speech prepared in response to your post, but when I went back up to read it again for like the third time, I noticed something.

It's because it's a long post in defense of yourself, and if you read my post fully, you see it is NOT why I voted for you, but evidence for the reason I voted for you, which is it seems the only time you make substainsial posts is to defend yourself.

I vote for you because you put lots of energy on defending yourself, and very little into scum hunting.

OK, reasons and evidence are almost the same thing. Basically you took it into account when you decided to vote me, so it's a reason, not the only reason, but it's in there somewhere. Thats a discussion DS and I had quite a few times aswell.....

I can only translate this as me defending myself didn't at first make you want to vote me, but now that your second reason is gone, it is obviously enough now. Did you ever maybe consider that defense is the greatest offense? I have never slipt up in my explinations/defenses or whatever the Hell you want to call them, but both you and DS have slipt in your attacks against me, and admitted it. I think I might be on to something here.

[Thanatos]

Nudude, I'd like to ask you a question, but before I do so, allow me to offer a touch of commentary.

I find your questioning to be interesting. You've been pushing DLS quite hard over the past couple of pages, provoking some responses that are interesting to me. I haven't bought her defense yet, but, on the other hand, I feel that you're pushing against a person rather than a set of actions. To clarify, it seems to me as if you're putting the screws to DLS more intensely than, in my opinion, her actions would justify. You have noted this, and said that this is simply a playstyle of yours. This leads me to an observation.

Where was this hardcore interrogation on day 1? I don't mean to say that you're scum, but I certainly did not notice this sort of really heavy accuse-and-answer from you before day 2. It seems just a bit odd that you're throwing around your weight so suddenly.

Now, onto my question, and it's a fairly simple one. I have for some time been an advocate of examining Liamcool, and still contend that he is almost certainly scum. However, he has in a very real way ducked under the table on day 2, and as such have given us little to work with, or to provoke discussion. My question is this: Why do you find DLS or Thanatos (as you were questioning both) to be more suspicious than Liamcool? Liam was DT's prime suspect, and HEH also commented a couple of times on the troubling behavior he exhibited. I can't speak for Insurgent, as he wasn't here for long, but it seems to me that the scummiest person to survive day 1 was unquestionably Liamcool (as our suspicion of Thanatos mostly stems from the sour lynch), and I'm honestly surprised that more people aren't interested in investigating him.

To be honest, I agree, and was waiting for a good time to bring it up that Liamcool has been just plain quiet.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

Where was this hardcore interrogation on day 1? I don't mean to say that you're scum, but I certainly did not notice this sort of really heavy accuse-and-answer from you before day 2. It seems just a bit odd that you're throwing around your weight so suddenly.

I also found this to be quite intresting especially since DS has some how managed to slink off into the background.....

[Gorgon]

I was pretty much the #2 lynch candidate yesterday

EBWOP: Of course that should have read "He", not "I"! Not the best of pronoun mixups, there.

[Infinitive]

I have to apologize for what I said earlier regarding DLS and her lying. I didn't read her post after she said she lied at the beginning, and I should have.

DLS, please accept my apologies. I was, it seemed, impervious to dry humor that day.

[charter]

Ooops, hadn't read page 25 when I made that last post, after reading it I do think nudude could be scum as well.

Can you tell us why?

His logic seemed a little flawed. I see nothing wrong with making big posts defending yourself when questioned, and I would expect anyone who is being investigated to do that to thoroughly convince the rest of us they aren't scum. I don't think it's scummy that DLS's biggest post is in her defense rather than scum hunting. I suppose I'd like everyones biggest post to be scumhunting, but don't find it suspcious if it isnt.

His vote on you seems like it was forced, like he wants to get the ball rolling on you. I was assuming that this was because he is scum, but he could be a cop and found you to be scum...

Now be fair, I am doing my fair share of discussion generating, and I will get around to my list of suspects, but for the moment I'd rather focus on one person at a time.

Could you at least just list them for us? If you don't want to focus on them that's fine, but someone else (myself since liamcool won't post) might want to.

I'd say that's a fair assesment. I like to think so far my questioning of DLS has been logical. If you or anyone finds a flaw in my logic, then by all means point it out so we can discuss it.

I'd say the biggest thing I don't like that you're doing is honing in on solely DLS. I suppose it's mostly because I don't think she's scum, so I feel your efforts are being wasted. However, you're making more sense in my eyes. I'm not really seeing you as very scummy anymore.

Now, onto my question, and it's a fairly simple one. I have for some time been an advocate of examining Liamcool, and still contend that he is almost certainly scum. However, he has in a very real way ducked under the table on day 2, and as such have given us little to work with, or to provoke discussion. My question is this: Why do you find DLS or Thanatos (as you were questioning both) to be more suspicious than Liamcool? Liam was DT's prime suspect, and HEH also commented a couple of times on the troubling behavior he exhibited. I can't speak for Insurgent, as he wasn't here for long, but it seems to me that the scummiest person to survive day 1 was unquestionably Liamcool (as our suspicion of Thanatos mostly stems from the sour lynch), and I'm honestly surprised that more people aren't interested in investigating him.

I'm trying to, but he hasn't shown up in a while and I've made all the case I can from him until he says something else. He's definately my number one suspect right now, and unless he totally changes his play, he's going to stay there.

Ok.....I had a nice little speech prepared in response to your post, but when I went back up to read it again for like the third time, I noticed something.

It's because it's a long post in defense of yourself, and if you read my post fully, you see it is NOT why I voted for you, but evidence for the reason I voted for you, which is it seems the only time you make substainsial posts is to defend yourself.

I vote for you because you put lots of energy on defending yourself, and very little into scum hunting.

OK, reasons and evidence are almost the same thing. Basically you took it into account when you decided to vote me, so it's a reason, not the only reason, but it's in there somewhere. Thats a discussion DS and I had quite a few times aswell.....

I can only translate this as me defending myself didn't at first make you want to vote me, but now that your second reason is gone, it is obviously enough now. Did you ever maybe consider that defense is the greatest offense? I have never slipt up in my explinations/defenses or whatever the Hell you want to call them, but both you and DS have slipt in your attacks against me, and admitted it. I think I might be on to something here.

You're really just building his case against you. I'm actually starting to see what he's saying, about how you don't look for scum, just defend everything said about you.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

You're really just building his case against you. I'm actually starting to see what he's saying, about how you don't look for scum, just defend everything said about you.

Ok, but I'm not really trying to do otherwise. I attack in my way of defense by demanding that people explain their reasoning about coming after me (or others). If I find that the response makes sense I back off, if not I find it as cause for suspition and will continue to go after you about it. So, I'm not defending myself for the sole purpose of defending myself.

[Infinitive]

I'm sorry, DLS, but that just hasn't been the case. Each time you've been pursued, you've posted substantially in your own defense, and your desire to not back down helped create the flame war.

Charter is dead on in his analysis of your behavior. You haven't really contributed to much of anything besides your own defense this game. I can see why that would make Nudude suspicious, in large part because I agree with his reasoning (though not as of yet the extent to which he's carried it). Simply put, you've given me no reason to believe that you're town, DLS. I understand that the mathematical odds are that you ARE town, but that's irrelevant to me right now.

As an observation, however, I'm willing to bet that at least one of these two (Nudude and DLS) are scum. Both have been niggling at the back of my mind this whole game, and it's only getting worse as time goes by. DLS's active defense system and nearly nonexistent offense are, while useful for a Stryker APV, not useful for a townie. Nudude, on the other hand, has really raise my suspicions a lot recently with his hyperbolic Q-and-A's; paired with a few leaps of logic early in his questioning (notably the assumption that defense = scumminess and the assumed connection between Than and DLS) make me wonder what the heck he's actually doing right now. In some respects, I'm kind of wondering if he's pursuing DLS to lure an easy vote from DS.

However, I think we have bigger fish to fry here. DLS has been largely a nonfactor this entire game. Nudude has spent two full pages questioning his two prime suspects, and it has really gone nowhere, in large part because nobody but him seems to buy any of it. The case against Liam has been discussed thoroughly, and I think it's time for him to post and defend himself (and I promise, I won't count the fact that you defend yourself against you now that you've been called to, Liam). Further, Thanatos was at the head of the bad lynch on day one, and while he managed to slip out of Nudude's interrogation, I'm still not sold on his innocence. Allow me to put it this way: Thanatos is a demonstrated leader for the town, and is pretty good at explaining himself. If he is in fact scum, it could be a catastrophic blow to the town to let him survive much longer, as he is, if scum, very good at making townies look scummy. IMHO, for that reason alone, Thanatos deserves closer scrutiny.

[Thanatos]

I've been really busy for the past couple of days, and I can't comment too deeply on the situation right now, but I'll say this.

Nudude and Infinitive have made me think about DLS in a light I hadn;t thought before, and suddenly I realized, they were completely right. She has yet to give anything on the Offensive. This is bad. Very bad. It means she has the time, but not the will/desire to hunt scum. This may or may not mean something, but she's on my list now, when before she was not, though that may have been more for DS than herself.

Speaking of which, if, by some chance, DS and DLS are scum buddies, we're royally fucked. Nothings more dangerous than scumbuddies who hate each other. Just something to keep in mind if one of them turns up scum.

Now, infinitive, if you want to question me, ask away. Just don't lynch me because I'm a good townie who guessed wrong. The same goes true for everyone, except for DS, who I would just like to leave me alone, because, with finals, I don't have the time for

him

That said, we need more pressure on Liamcool, who I feel is the shot for today, who has gone missing despite calls for action. Therefore,

Unvote, Vote:Liamcool

[Thanatos]

I'm sorry, DLS, but that just hasn't been the case. Each time you've been pursued, you've posted substantially in your own defense, and your desire to not back down helped create the flame war.

Charter is dead on in his analysis of your behavior. You haven't really contributed to much of anything besides your own defense this game. I can see why that would make Nudude suspicious, in large part because I agree with his reasoning (though not as of yet the extent to which he's carried it). Simply put, you've given me no reason to believe that you're town, DLS. I understand that the mathematical odds are that you ARE town, but that's irrelevant to me right now.

As an observation, however, I'm willing to bet that at least one of these two (Nudude and DLS) are scum. Both have been niggling at the back of my mind this whole game, and it's only getting worse as time goes by. DLS's active defense system and nearly nonexistent offense are, while useful for a Stryker APV, not useful for a townie. Nudude, on the other hand, has really raise my suspicions a lot recently with his hyperbolic Q-and-A's; paired with a few leaps of logic early in his questioning (notably the assumption that defense = scumminess and the assumed connection between Than and DLS) make me wonder what the heck he's actually doing right now. In some respects, I'm kind of wondering if he's pursuing DLS to lure an easy vote from DS.

However, I think we have bigger fish to fry here. DLS has been largely a nonfactor this entire game. Nudude has spent two full pages questioning his two prime suspects, and it has really gone nowhere, in large part because nobody but him seems to buy any of it. The case against Liam has been discussed thoroughly, and I think it's time for him to post and defend himself (and I promise, I won't count the fact that you defend yourself against you now that you've been called to, Liam). Further, Thanatos was at the head of the bad lynch on day one, and while he managed to slip out of Nudude's interrogation, I'm still not sold on his innocence. Allow me to put it this way: Thanatos is a demonstrated leader for the town, and is pretty good at explaining himself. If he is in fact scum, it could be a catastrophic blow to the town to let him survive much longer, as he is, if scum, very good at making townies look scummy. IMHO, for that reason alone, Thanatos deserves closer scrutiny.

How am I very good at making townies look scummy? The DT bandwagon had already begun before I even JOINED the game. I'm just confused.

[VampyreLord]

M' back. I've been reading through, and here's wot I think.

I just gave a PBPA and you FOS me for quoting the words of a dead townie? I think your reasoning is flawed. Here's a vote to pressure you into more information.

Vote: Thanatos

Now watch as DLS rushes to defend him in her next post.

Wait....what did all of that have to do with me? Are you assuming that simply because I defended S_K that I shall now defend Thanatos, because HeH hinted that there was a possible link between me and S_K becuase I defended her and we had consecutive votes on the player who died N1?

I make a prediction. DLS accuses me of assuming things.

I believe/believed that DSes comments about me were him saying "HeH suspected Thanatos, because SK lurked." which is stupid. I may have missinterepreted it, I don't know. But, if I read correctly, DLS read it that way, so maybe I didn't...

Thanatos backs DLS up.

My Vote on him is because he continues to ignore things brought up against him. Like, for example, how he has yet to comment on the fact that the "good points brought up against me" were dropped within that same page, and because he continues to be unreasponcive.

I agree with this.

DLS backs up Thanatos, just as I predicted.

I never went on an all-out offensive against anyone, but at the first sign of trouble (a list of players suspected by HeH at some point during the game, regardless whether he cleared them afterwards or not), DLS and Thanatos once again reveal their ties to each other.

Other people please comment and add your own thoughts on this fiasco. It seems to be growing into what could potentially be the most important discussion of D2.

Humm, I see.... and agree.

I'm finding it hard to get a read on DLS, Thanatos and DS at the moment...there's way to much static in there, and I feel the reason is it's a bit confusing trying to figure out what everyone means.

Me aswell, but I'm leaning closer to scum for Thanatos and DLS.

No, I don't have anything to say about that. I'm commenting on DS's methods right now.... not really on his points, which really aren't even his.

Who's are they?

OK...I lied.

I don't like that either.

Lying is bad for the town.

Even if it's minor, IMO. (Not suggesting anything off this).

Anyway, in summary,

FOS: Disciple Slayer

for a long, incongruous series of suspicious analyses of other peoples' thoughts, omitting quotations directly relevant to a PBPA, and seeming to bait out a supposed connection between two people that is on its face suspect at best.

Defending DLS/Thanatos? It gets even better.

Thank you for your comments, Infinitive.

Seems all big 'n happy now someone else is going against DS, 3 way scum? Don't get me wrong, I ain't all that suspicous of Infinitive. And Thanatos' vote seems like an OMGUS to me.
Ah, well.

Vote: Thanatos

[Thanatos]

Hmm..There are alot of things really, really off about VLs post. But, sadly, my paper calls to me, so I'll write something on it tommorow afternoon. Count on it.

Just note at ow many things he comments on that are contradicted by things he reads later, like where my vote is now, and what DLS was lying about.

[Nudude]

Nudude, I'd like to ask you a question, but before I do so, allow me to offer a touch of commentary.

I find your questioning to be interesting. You've been pushing DLS quite hard over the past couple of pages, provoking some responses that are interesting to me. I haven't bought her defense yet, but, on the other hand, I feel that you're pushing against a person rather than a set of actions. To clarify, it seems to me as if you're putting the screws to DLS more intensely than, in my opinion, her actions would justify. You have noted this, and said that this is simply a playstyle of yours. This leads me to an observation.

Where was this hardcore interrogation on day 1? I don't mean to say that you're scum, but I certainly did not notice this sort of really heavy accuse-and-answer from you before day 2. It seems just a bit odd that you're throwing around your weight so suddenly.

Now, onto my question, and it's a fairly simple one. I have for some time been an advocate of examining Liamcool, and still contend that he is almost certainly scum. However, he has in a very real way ducked under the table on day 2, and as such have given us little to work with, or to provoke discussion. My question is this: Why do you find DLS or Thanatos (as you were questioning both) to be more suspicious than Liamcool? Liam was DT's prime suspect, and HEH also commented a couple of times on the troubling behavior he exhibited. I can't speak for Insurgent, as he wasn't here for long, but it seems to me that the scummiest person to survive day 1 was unquestionably Liamcool (as our suspicion of Thanatos mostly stems from the sour lynch), and I'm honestly surprised that more people aren't interested in investigating him.

I have admitted earlier that I am pushing DLS hard, the reason being that I believe soft questioning doesn't yield results. DLS is not going to be the only person I push hard today, never fear

I'm going to quote a post of yours infinitive,

On a seperate note,

I don't make this kind of post very often, but Disciple Slayer, I don't find your signature funny, clever or anything than could be associated with any positive words.

Bear in mind, when you were given a choice between multiple people to vote, you choose the person who you found to be the most unpleasant.

Hear hear. That kind of stuff is just rude, and can get people (like me) in trouble for having played on breaks at work. If someone goes and sees that while I'm playing and feels uncomfortable, it's sexual harassment.

I'd appreciate it if you changed your sig, DS. Thanks.

Now, Nudude, you've been kind of hard on several people over the course of several posts recently, and you said in your last post that you'd post the reasons when you got around to them. In fairness, I think that they deserve to see the reasons behind your accusations when you're saying the stuff you're saying around them.

In addition, the game has slowed a bit, so levying a couple more suspicions might get things to pick up a bit.

C'mon, people, post!

I'm not going to say there is no reason to think I'm scummy, but in my defense, it has put a fire under the conversation now hasn't it? If you read my posts and find a flaw in my logic, then by all means ask me about it, ask me the hard questions.

If however, your going to vote for me because I'm putting the screws on DLS, I'd ask you to consider the fact that my posts are generating discussion, and I did this even though I knew it would make me look scummy, but the trade off is we get alot more to look at.

[Nudude]

Nudude, I'd like to ask you a question, but before I do so, allow me to offer a touch of commentary.

I find your questioning to be interesting. You've been pushing DLS quite hard over the past couple of pages, provoking some responses that are interesting to me. I haven't bought her defense yet, but, on the other hand, I feel that you're pushing against a person rather than a set of actions. To clarify, it seems to me as if you're putting the screws to DLS more intensely than, in my opinion, her actions would justify. You have noted this, and said that this is simply a playstyle of yours. This leads me to an observation.

Where was this hardcore interrogation on day 1? I don't mean to say that you're scum, but I certainly did not notice this sort of really heavy accuse-and-answer from you before day 2. It seems just a bit odd that you're throwing around your weight so suddenly.

Now, onto my question, and it's a fairly simple one. I have for some time been an advocate of examining Liamcool, and still contend that he is almost certainly scum. However, he has in a very real way ducked under the table on day 2, and as such have given us little to work with, or to provoke discussion. My question is this: Why do you find DLS or Thanatos (as you were questioning both) to be more suspicious than Liamcool? Liam was DT's prime suspect, and HEH also commented a couple of times on the troubling behavior he exhibited. I can't speak for Insurgent, as he wasn't here for long, but it seems to me that the scummiest person to survive day 1 was unquestionably Liamcool (as our suspicion of Thanatos mostly stems from the sour lynch), and I'm honestly surprised that more people aren't interested in investigating him.

Sorry Infinitive, I just woke up and missed the main question of your post.

My style has changed from D1. I think a mistake we made was that we decided DT was scum, and stuck with it. I think that was because people might have been afraid to spear head a case because it made them look scummy. I'm putting the screws in DLS at the moment, but I assure you I will be focusing on other people today and I will be analsying them and questioning them just as hard.

There were lots of people we suspected on D1, but noone investigated them. In a way, I kind of blame the people who didn't suspect DT, but did nothing to investigate other people. Accepting my share of the blame, I should have focused on more players.

I'm not saying if you didn't vote for DT your scum, or visa versa, simply that if people had said "Well, DT looks scummy, but I think X is also scummy" and then pursued that investigation, we'd have maybe lynched scum D1, or at least have more information.

In regards to my list of suspects, I want to keep my list of suspects secret, because as soon as I post that list people will start asking the why's and what for's, and I want to focus on one person at a time. I will say, however, that after I'm done with DLS, I will be taking a closer look at DS.

Finally, if you want to take a look at someone else than DLS, please by all means do so. I've said it once and I'll say it again, I'm not asking anyone to vote for DLS, or even agree with me. In fact, if you think there is someone else, look into it and investigate. Right now, I'm focusing on DLS. Most likely by next page I will be focusing on DS. If you think someone else is scummy, then investigate!

[Nudude]

Ok.....I had a nice little speech prepared in response to your post, but when I went back up to read it again for like the third time, I noticed something.

It's because it's a long post in defense of yourself, and if you read my post fully, you see it is NOT why I voted for you, but evidence for the reason I voted for you, which is it seems the only time you make substainsial posts is to defend yourself.

I vote for you because you put lots of energy on defending yourself, and very little into scum hunting.

OK, reasons and evidence are almost the same thing. Basically you took it into account when you decided to vote me, so it's a reason, not the only reason, but it's in there somewhere. Thats a discussion DS and I had quite a few times aswell.....

I can only translate this as me defending myself didn't at first make you want to vote me, but now that your second reason is gone, it is obviously enough now. Did you ever maybe consider that defense is the greatest offense? I have never slipt up in my explinations/defenses or whatever the Hell you want to call them, but both you and DS have slipt in your attacks against me, and admitted it. I think I might be on to something here.

Reasons and evidence are different. The reason person A shot person B was because he wanted his wallet. The evidence is a video tape of the event.

The reason I voted for you is because I think your scum trying to get townies lynched and NK'ed. The evidence is because you continue to refuse to do any scum hunting, or even make a compromise. Further evidence is many posts in you make in your defense, the one that I first noticed being the long post you made in reply to DS's accusation, and the very few (if any) posts you use to hunt scum.

Having said that, nit picking the correct words to make a sentence doesn't help anyone.

DLS, this game is not about winning arguements. If with your next post if you can show me some honest to goodness scum hunting, or can at least suggest a compromise, I will freely admit you the winner of our debate because I will clearly be wrong about you and scum hunting.

I feel the reason you haven't so far is because it will feel like to you in some way conceding defeat. Consider, however, that I will not only back down and admit I was wrong and you were right, but if your really town then it will end this arguement and I'll move onto the next person and stop wasting time on you. Because if your town, then you know I'm wasting my energy in this discussion, and will want me to focus on someone who may be scum.

[liamcool]

(please note, this post is likely to be a huge mess)

Now, infinitive, if you want to question me, ask away. Just don't lynch me because I'm a good townie who guessed wrong. The same goes true for everyone, except for DS, who I would just like to leave me alone, because, with finals, I don't have the time for

him

That said, we need more pressure on Liamcool, who I feel is the shot for today, who has gone missing despite calls for action. Therefore,

Unvote, Vote:Liamcool

h
We don't know you're a townie. You do seem suspicious, even if your intentions are good and true. (yes, that sounds cliched.)

Your vote seems a bit spur of the moment, so I won't comment on it for now, but I might come back in a later post.

Ooops, hadn't read page 25 when I made that last post, after reading it I do think nudude could be scum as well.

This is a pretty idiotic and spur of the moment thing too, but I'll let it go as maybe you were rushing to make a post or something.

As an observation, however, I'm willing to bet that at least one of these two (Nudude and DLS) are scum. Both have been niggling at the back of my mind this whole game, and it's only getting worse as time goes by. DLS's active defense system and nearly nonexistent offense are, while useful for a Stryker APV, not useful for a townie. Nudude, on the other hand, has really raise my suspicions a lot recently with his hyperbolic Q-and-A's; paired with a few leaps of logic early in his questioning (notably the assumption that defense = scumminess and the assumed connection between Than and DLS) make me wonder what the heck he's actually doing right now. In some respects, I'm kind of wondering if he's pursuing DLS to lure an easy vote from DS.

However, I think we have bigger fish to fry here. DLS has been largely a nonfactor this entire game. Nudude has spent two full pages questioning his two prime suspects, and it has really gone nowhere, in large part because nobody but him seems to buy any of it. The case against Liam has been discussed thoroughly, and I think it's time for him to post and defend himself (and I promise, I won't count the fact that you defend yourself against you now that you've been called to, Liam). Further, Thanatos was at the head of the bad lynch on day one, and while he managed to slip out of Nudude's interrogation, I'm still not sold on his innocence. Allow me to put it this way: Thanatos is a demonstrated leader for the town, and is pretty good at explaining himself. If he is in fact scum, it could be a catastrophic blow to the town to let im survive much longer, as he is, if scum, very good at making townies look scummy. IMHO, for that reason alone, Thanatos deserves closer scrutiny.

I think we should lean more towards people like Gorgon and charter (in terms of questioning and investigating, anyway). In this day, all they've done is accuse me of being scum, with a lot of emphasis on me and very little on anybody else (compartively). Also, charter has flown under nearly everyone's scumdar, which Infinitive commented on twice, early in the day on posts 495 and 502. Gorgon, though, I'm less suspicious of, because although he did seem to be very focused on killing me earlier, he has gone on to discuss other people. Charter, on the other hand, just continuously, needlessly, suspects me. In 544, he fabricates facts based on some misunderstanding he made with not reading Infinitive's posts on day 1.

Beg pardon, Charter, i just want a little clarification, because I'm not sure if I need to explain myself or not.

Around 430 when infinitive votes for liamcool, I think he liamcool thought that DT wasnt actually going to end up lynched, and he switched right over to liamcool when he even admitted to not finiding liamcool very suspicious. He just wanted to be on the next bandwagon early enough so as to avoid suspicion.

Are you saying that I switched over to the next bandwagon or Liamcool did? Meh, regardless, I might as well explain myself, even though I'm pretty my vote post did that pretty well.

Hmmm, now that I go back and reread around 430, I can't find where infinitive voted for liamcool at all. I was basing it off of DTs post 431 and infinitives 429 where I guess I just infered it from infinitive's saying he's 90% sure DT is scum and I must of assumed this meant he would be voting for DT.

(more to come later as thoughts continue to come to my head. Is double posting under these circumstances accepted or not?)

[Infinitive]

(please note, this post is likely to be a huge mess)

Now, infinitive, if you want to question me, ask away. Just don't lynch me because I'm a good townie who guessed wrong. The same goes true for everyone, except for DS, who I would just like to leave me alone, because, with finals, I don't have the time for

him

That said, we need more pressure on Liamcool, who I feel is the shot for today, who has gone missing despite calls for action. Therefore,

Unvote, Vote:Liamcool

h
We don't know you're a townie. You do seem suspicious, even if your intentions are good and true. (yes, that sounds cliched.)

Your vote seems a bit spur of the moment, so I won't comment on it for now, but I might come back in a later post.

Ooops, hadn't read page 25 when I made that last post, after reading it I do think nudude could be scum as well.

This is a pretty idiotic and spur of the moment thing too, but I'll let it go as maybe you were rushing to make a post or something.

As an observation, however, I'm willing to bet that at least one of these two (Nudude and DLS) are scum. Both have been niggling at the back of my mind this whole game, and it's only getting worse as time goes by. DLS's active defense system and nearly nonexistent offense are, while useful for a Stryker APV, not useful for a townie. Nudude, on the other hand, has really raise my suspicions a lot recently with his hyperbolic Q-and-A's; paired with a few leaps of logic early in his questioning (notably the assumption that defense = scumminess and the assumed connection between Than and DLS) make me wonder what the heck he's actually doing right now. In some respects, I'm kind of wondering if he's pursuing DLS to lure an easy vote from DS.

However, I think we have bigger fish to fry here. DLS has been largely a nonfactor this entire game. Nudude has spent two full pages questioning his two prime suspects, and it has really gone nowhere, in large part because nobody but him seems to buy any of it. The case against Liam has been discussed thoroughly, and I think it's time for him to post and defend himself (and I promise, I won't count the fact that you defend yourself against you now that you've been called to, Liam). Further, Thanatos was at the head of the bad lynch on day one, and while he managed to slip out of Nudude's interrogation, I'm still not sold on his innocence. Allow me to put it this way: Thanatos is a demonstrated leader for the town, and is pretty good at explaining himself. If he is in fact scum, it could be a catastrophic blow to the town to let im survive much longer, as he is, if scum, very good at making townies look scummy. IMHO, for that reason alone, Thanatos deserves closer scrutiny.

I think we should lean more towards people like Gorgon and charter (in terms of questioning and investigating, anyway). In this day, all they've done is accuse me of being scum, with a lot of emphasis on me and very little on anybody else (compartively). Also, charter has flown under nearly everyone's scumdar, which Infinitive commented on twice, early in the day on posts 495 and 502. Gorgon, though, I'm less suspicious of, because although he did seem to be very focused on killing me earlier, he has gone on to discuss other people. Charter, on the other hand, just continuously, needlessly, suspects me. In 544, he fabricates facts based on some misunderstanding he made with not reading Infinitive's posts on day 1.

Beg pardon, Charter, i just want a little clarification, because I'm not sure if I need to explain myself or not.

Around 430 when infinitive votes for liamcool, I think he liamcool thought that DT wasnt actually going to end up lynched, and he switched right over to liamcool when he even admitted to not finiding liamcool very suspicious. He just wanted to be on the next bandwagon early enough so as to avoid suspicion.

Are you saying that I switched over to the next bandwagon or Liamcool did? Meh, regardless, I might as well explain myself, even though I'm pretty my vote post did that pretty well.

Hmmm, now that I go back and reread around 430, I can't find where infinitive voted for liamcool at all. I was basing it off of DTs post 431 and infinitives 429 where I guess I just infered it from infinitive's saying he's 90% sure DT is scum and I must of assumed this meant he would be voting for DT.

(more to come later as thoughts continue to come to my head. Is double posting under these circumstances accepted or not?)

Okay, normally I'd be one to let someone finish what they were saying, but I can't let this mess pass, not even for a minute. This whole post reels to high heaven to me, but nothing moreso than this:

I think we should lean more towards people like Gorgon and charter (in terms of questioning and investigating, anyway). In this day, all they've done is accuse me of being scum, with a lot of emphasis on me and very little on anybody else (compartively). Also, charter has flown under nearly everyone's scumdar, which Infinitive commented on twice, early in the day on posts 495 and 502. Gorgon, though, I'm less suspicious of, because although he did seem to be very focused on killing me earlier, he has gone on to discuss other people. Charter, on the other hand, just continuously, needlessly, suspects me. In 544, he fabricates facts based on some misunderstanding he made with not reading Infinitive's posts on day 1.

Problem 1: here, Liam is

again

misquoting what happened on day one and early day 2; Charter was earlier unable to find where I voted for Liam, and I came back (in a post Liam did not quote) assuring the game at large not only that I had, but that I thought Liam was still (and ought to be) suspect #1 right now. He made this same contention earlier on day 2, and I know we called him on it there. Making the same omission twice is exceptionally suspicious to me.

Problem 2: Liam is calling for suspicion on Charter and Gorgon, then

in the same breath

saying that any suspicion levied against him is needless. Whether this is scummy or not is up to you all, but I think it is, and is just plain stupid besides. Checking people out is a good idea, especially when they were fingered by not one, but two dead townies on day 1.

Problem 3: Liam is calling for an investigation on the wrong people. Gorgon has been a careful and active scumhunter for the entirety of the game. While I have yet to do a PBPA on him, nothing he's done thusfar has made me the least bit suspicious. Charter is even worse- I HAVE done a PBPA on him, and not only have I found nothing suspicious, he's been an excellent contributor to the scumhunt (certainly moreso than many of us). Maybe it's dumb for me to do so, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Charter is the only person besides myself that I'm certain is a townie.

Liam, frankly, I don't know of anyone in the game that thinks you're not scummy, and throwing counterclaims against those we have really no reason to suspect instead of trying to give us some reason, ANY reason, to believe that you're anything but scum is just silly.

I'm not going to vote for you yet, because the day is still young, but rest assured that it will be there when we're done checking other people out.