Mini Normal 1839 - Game Over!

[Foxbird]

Votecount 2.15

Saru

(2) - aronagrundy, ironstove

Thor665

(2) - karnos, Fire Assassin

LmkGuy

(1) - Lowell

Lowell

(2) - Saru, LmkGuy

bji

(3) - Nero Cain, Thor665, PenguinPower

Nero Cain

(1) - bji

Not Voting

(0) - No one!

With

11

players eligible to vote, it’s

6

to lynch!

Day 2 will end in

(expired on 2016-11-11 12:47:28).

Mod Notes:

Searching a replacement for LmkGuy.

Fun fact: this is the first VC where I didn't have to change anything from the last one.

[Nero Cain]

So FA why aren't you voting BJ?

[PenguinPower]

So FA why aren't you voting BJ?

Why are you?

[Nero Cain]

What town motivation do you see in him coming in and pooh-poohing the day 1 mislynch and then trying to write said lynch off as a policy lynch when most players were not PLing him?

[Nero Cain]

I also feel like he's using mental gymnastics to reach the same conclusions as Iron i.e. Thor and I as his top scum reads.

[bji]

Well I've been prodded, but I really have little to add except to restate my case.

Call me naive but in the face of lots of uncertainty I'd rather focus on something that is at least grounded in fact, and that's the wagon. I wasn't a part of it in real time so maybe I'd have felt differently about it if I was, but reading it after the fact, it's just really hard for me to believe that this mislynch happened without scum help.

Again, almost everybody abandoned their Day 1 cases to join a fairly quick mislynch based on what I think is patently poor logic, and furthermore, targeted at a player who had had zero meaningul interactions and was, therefore, the least valuable mislynch if he was to be a mislynch (and he was).

It's very, very hard for me to believe that all of those factors happened by chance. Of course it's possible, but this is a game of odds and those odds don't seem good to me.

So now, I had to ask myself, who are the most likely scum drivers or participants of that wagon?

The wagon had Nero Cain, Fire Assassin, Thor, aronagrundy, karnos, ironstove, and GreyICE.

GreyICE is out because already dead town.
ironstove is one of my top town reads for other reasons that I have already stated, so I'm not going to focus on him when I have better choices.
karnos, same.
aronagrundy would be my third choice for scum, and I would vote him absent other choices. I tried to push a little on aronagrundy but I felt like his reasoning in response did seem sincere, and additionally, he doesn't post a lot so it's easy to lose focus on him when other people I am interested in are posting more. That being said, not posting alot should not be a free pass to coasting through so I'd still be happy to pressure aronagrundy if anyone else in this game would bother to try with me.
Thor - I didn't like his unexplained sheep vote and I don't feel like any of the reasons he gave for voting Mal were even remotely as well explained as any of his other reasons for vfoting any of the other people he's voted. So he's a strong candidate for scum on this wagon from my perspective.
Fire Assassin I have as a town read because of the claim and the way that the NK went down, so I'm not focusing on him while other better candidates are present.
Nero Cain started the wagon, which I didn't like, and I really didn't like his defenses, which also involved outright misrepresentations of other players' reasons for being on that wagon, which I elaborated on in post 1089.

I'd lynch one of { Thor, Nero Cain, aronagrundy } today.

Until and unless I do a deep re-examination of the game, I don't see my stance changing there. Everything else feels like pushing ropes because it's all just assumptions based on assumptions that are all founded and based on unverifiable evidence. But the wagon was REAL and is an ACTUAL FACTUAL BASIS to draw evidence and cases from.

[ironstove]

Nero n Thor trying to lead another mislynch we should Lynch Nero

[Nero Cain]

how do you know BJ is town?

[Nero Cain]

which also involved outright misrepresentations of other players' reasons for being on that wagon, which I elaborated on in post 1089.

If you think that misreps are scummy then you should be self voting 'cause like your claim that Grey was accusing town of abusing site features is fucking laughable. Whats also laughable is the idea that we (mostly I) should have ignored Mal posting it up elsewhere while ignoring this game b/c Tracer could have had an alt (or a main) that was posting elsewhere. He's also flat out ignoring the idea that scum could have, and likely did, avoid and/or cast doubt on said wagon b/c they knew it would flip town, so he's pretty likely scum that has at least 1 buddy that avoided (LMK) or threw doubt on the wagon before joining. (Karnos, Iron)

We should be lynching one of these 4 today.

[bji]

Spoiler: Is it a wall?

which also involved outright misrepresentations of other players' reasons for being on that wagon, which I elaborated on in post 1089.

If you think that misreps are scummy then you should be self voting 'cause like your claim that Grey was accusing town of abusing site features is fucking laughable.

Oh holy shit though.

I looked at mal's recent posts. Whatever you can be town. This is fake VLA shit.

Vote: mal

Jesus. Don't claim, just die. Fucking fake VLAers. This doesn't just make you scum, it means you're garbage who abuses site rules meant to accommodate people IRL. Welcome to the hell of "I will expect you to post content at all times in all games I am a part of regardless of VLA status."

This post 100% says that GreyICE was accusing Mal of abusing site features. It doesn't say that GreyICE was accusing TOWN of abusing site features, although it's interesting that you talk about Mal as if he could have been known to be town before flipping.

Whatever you can be town. This is fake VLA shit.

Translation: you could be town, but in any case I think you're faking your V/LA status.

EXPLICITLY noting that even town could fake V/A status.

Jesus. Don't claim, just die. Fucking fake VLAers. This doesn't just make you scum, it means you're garbage who abuses site rules meant to accommodate people IRL.

Doesn't even want a claim. Just wants Mal dead because of an apparent serious anger about the V/LA faking. I don't read "this doesn't just make you scum" as GreyICE actually having a strong scum read on Mal. I read this as GreyICE saying that IF Mal is scum, THEN faking V/LA as scum makes him garbage who abuses site rules.

Whats also laughable is the idea that we (mostly I) should have ignored Mal posting it up elsewhere while ignoring this game b/c Tracer could have had an alt (or a main) that was posting elsewhere.

Laugh all you want, you should have ignored it. You had NO IDEA if Mal was intentionally ignoring this game. The rationale was completely flawed. I don't think that everyone who succumbed to this rationale was scum, obviously they couldn't be, there were 7 people on that wagon, but I do think that some of them were. And I think that those that DROVE the wagon are more culpable. You who explicitly stated that Mal was scum contributed a driving force to the wagon, not to mention starting it.

He's also flat out ignoring the idea that scum could have, and likely did, avoid and/or cast doubt on said wagon b/c they knew it would flip town, so he's pretty likely scum that has at least 1 buddy that avoided (LMK) or threw doubt on the wagon before joining. (Karnos, Iron)

I am not ignoring that idea; if I thought that no scum avoided the wagon then I'd be saying that all the scum were definitely on that wagon, which I never said. I said that at least ONE scum is likely on that wagon, and I have a three most likely candidates.

[ironstove]

how do you know BJ is town?

I agree with everything he's said so I find it scummy that people are trying to Lynch him when I have a town read on him

[Nero Cain]

how do you know BJ is town?

I agree with everything he's said so I find it scummy that people are trying to Lynch him when I have a town read on him

What has he said that you didn't say first?

[Nero Cain]

Spoiler: Is it a wall?

which also involved outright misrepresentations of other players' reasons for being on that wagon, which I elaborated on in post 1089.

If you think that misreps are scummy then you should be self voting 'cause like your claim that Grey was accusing town of abusing site features is fucking laughable.

Oh holy shit though.

I looked at mal's recent posts. Whatever you can be town. This is fake VLA shit.

Vote: mal

Jesus. Don't claim, just die. Fucking fake VLAers. This doesn't just make you scum, it means you're garbage who abuses site rules meant to accommodate people IRL. Welcome to the hell of "I will expect you to post content at all times in all games I am a part of regardless of VLA status."

This post 100% says that GreyICE was accusing Mal of abusing site features. It doesn't say that GreyICE was accusing TOWN of abusing site features, although it's interesting that you talk about Mal as if he could have been known to be town before flipping.

Whatever you can be town. This is fake VLA shit.

Translation: you could be town, but in any case I think you're faking your V/LA status.

EXPLICITLY noting that even town could fake V/A status.

Jesus. Don't claim, just die. Fucking fake VLAers. This doesn't just make you scum, it means you're garbage who abuses site rules meant to accommodate people IRL.

Doesn't even want a claim. Just wants Mal dead because of an apparent serious anger about the V/LA faking. I don't read "this doesn't just make you scum" as GreyICE actually having a strong scum read on Mal. I read this as GreyICE saying that IF Mal is scum, THEN faking V/LA as scum makes him garbage who abuses site rules.

Whats also laughable is the idea that we (mostly I) should have ignored Mal posting it up elsewhere while ignoring this game b/c Tracer could have had an alt (or a main) that was posting elsewhere.

Laugh all you want, you should have ignored it. You had NO IDEA if Mal was intentionally ignoring this game. The rationale was completely flawed. I don't think that everyone who succumbed to this rationale was scum, obviously they couldn't be, there were 7 people on that wagon, but I do think that some of them were. And I think that those that DROVE the wagon are more culpable. You who explicitly stated that Mal was scum contributed a driving force to the wagon, not to mention starting it.

He's also flat out ignoring the idea that scum could have, and likely did, avoid and/or cast doubt on said wagon b/c they knew it would flip town, so he's pretty likely scum that has at least 1 buddy that avoided (LMK) or threw doubt on the wagon before joining. (Karnos, Iron)

I am not ignoring that idea; if I thought that no scum avoided the wagon then I'd be saying that all the scum were definitely on that wagon, which I never said. I said that at least ONE scum is likely on that wagon, and I have a three most likely candidates.

Before I even comment on this I wanted to ask you something. You are putting things in spoiler b/c PP fussed at you for walling right?

[ironstove]

lynch thor or nero, thank you, let's stop with the mislynches. make mafiascum great again

[bji]

You are putting things in spoiler b/c PP fussed at you for walling right?

Yes, I'm trying to honor his request. I don't know exactly the length of a post that makes it a wall though, I didn't think that one was too long but I erred on the side of spoilering it anyway, hence the "Is it a wall" tongue in cheek question.

[Nero Cain]

that's actually kinda scummy. Like placating him.

[ironstove]

that's actually kinda scummy. Like placating him.

whattttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[bji]

Nero trying to play the role of clueless town?

[Nero Cain]

Nero trying to play the role of clueless town?

Whats clueless about me accusing you of scum that's trying to bending over backwards to please PP?

[ironstove]

VOTE: Nero

Nero is scum this game, his casing on bji is super weak and reaching to the point that it feels like so much effort was made to make it sound towny which makes it sound fake FMPOV, his scum read on me was stupid (he never provided any casing or reasons, just said over and over 'I think iron is scum'), his town read on nero is baseless along with his other reads this game making 0 sense, and the way the mal wagon formed on D1 with nero/thor pushing town to jump on was scummy as well.

Nero is the lynch today, I am certain that this is the right move.

[aronagrundy]

Sorry for not posting much, weird weekend.

I'm going to look at nero more closely because I'm townreading the people on his wagon and my townread on nero is mostly a holdover from rvs day 1

[Nero Cain]

Why do you townread BJ?

[ironstove]

Why are you fucking asking me the same question over and over?

[ironstove]

A question which I've already answered multiple times?

[ironstove]

What do you think about my scum read on you nero? Is it bullshit? Please refute my arguments, banter with me, pressure me, come on, I can take it.