The real folk blues [Canceled]

[Mirhawk]

Unless we want to not lynch her in hopes she shoots scum I guess.

[Killthestory]

nos way too many bad votes on it.

I don't like wagon composition tells, considering they're only useful if scum doesn't bus and your reads are good.

you know what im going to say

[Killthestory]

also MAGENTA WOLF is very troubled and sad : (

[Mirhawk]

Vifam claimed in the PT for what it's worth, but

his kill flavor seems kinda strange.

Could you talk about this a bit? I'm not sure what you mean by strange sounding kill flavor; did you think it sounded town initially? The only thing that actually makes sense for this is that you thought it was two kills, but you never actually thought it was (as evidenced by your response to Cerb later on).

eeeeeh, I don't really like taking someone else's word on another players meta.

I mean I respect it as a reason you might be scumreading him, but your mileage wont go far with me on a meta based argument unless its something I've noticed myself as well.

Hard not to love someone shooting down Cakez's meta of me!

They are seemingly not very committed to either the Rach or Maker wagons (the rach wagon in particular feels poorly justified which is maybe odd seeing as how they were okay with flipping back to it at any time) and they have a suspicious pencheit for defending House (and to a lesser extent scrub).

I was serious when I said that the best way to play a game this large is to produce bodies quickly and reanalyze from there; this game seems depressing as hell since I've been gone and I don't think that the natural dance of "back and forth and back and forth and back and forth" when you have doubts is exactly good for game health. I wasn't really scumreading Rach or Zanos; I went with Rach because Vifam, and I went with Zanos because SpyreX. I thought that Zanos's opening in particular was kind of funky but I liked his response to me when I attacked his case there.

The votes on Kraska aren't nonsensical, your logic sucks. Kraska's kill flavor is pretty obviously bombs/biological weapons, the only way for it not to be is if Vifram was roleblocked before being killed.

Or killed before he had the chance to investigate.
Killing is before investigation on NAR.

Mirhawk, I don't really understand why you're scumreading Skrub - you make some mention of me defending him tying into it but you don't seem to suspect me particularly strongly, so ????

Specifically the thing that stood out to me was that he wasn't killed by a gun, not the possibility of dual kills. I don't think I considered that a possibility until someone else pointed it out.

I like to shoot down other people's cases if they're based primarily off meta so don't feel too special here . Meta is a useful tool, but I don't put much stock in most peoples unless it's my own pretty much because its almost impossible to conclusively prove to another player that your meta information is correct without a outrageous amount of research done by the person you're trying to convince.

That third bit I dunno what I think of. To an extent it is important (especially at the beginning of the game) to make some bodies to talk about, but if there isn't enough discussion while doing that there still won't be enough to talk about later. This is kinda unimportant theorycrafting, but I still kinda wanted to address my opinion on it. I was kinda of the opinion that you were pursuing those scumreads of your own initiative rather then following someone else, but then I'm also not very interested in talking about them so I guess I don't care that much.

I don't really know the order for NAR, so I'll take your word for it. But the fact is Kraska claimed the kill on Vifam anyways, and claimed that her kill flavor involved explosives as well. So even if she is lying, it would just be because she's scum.

I honestly don't recall all the specifics of my case on Skrub. It involved his lack of scumhunting and defensiveness when under light pressure, but I don't recall the rest of it. Do you still want me to look it up? I wasn't holding anything back, the whole thing is in my iso.

[DiamondSentinel]

So, that's a really old post, but the mod confirmed that the Explosives and Biological(?) Weapons was one kill.

[Mirhawk]

Why did you dislike the readslist? Just because Skrub was scumreading a lot of lurkers earlier?

Oh yeah and there was that readslist too.

Problem wasn't that he was scumreading lurkers, but rather that his top scumreads were lurkers over some players that he seemed to actually have reasons to scumread.

[Mirhawk]

Yeah I know, I'm just super behind y'know.

[DiamondSentinel]

You are super super behind.

[Mirhawk]

I assume Mirhawk wouldn't have made that comment without some kind of evidence, which puts you at a priority over a scumteam to me, because I know who you are. Don't try to frame lynching 3P as defending the Mafia. Both of 'em have to die before we can win, what difference does the order make?

I should clarify that I have a theory, not evidence.

I can lay it out though, basically it goes like this.

First of all a town player who defends themselves by blowing people up with biological weapons sounds super friggin sketchy in the first place. I haven't seen far enough into the show to confirm if this is something that the character she claimed to be would do, but using biological weapons for self defense sounds like horseshit.

Secondly, bulletproof serial killers aren't that uncommon so I don't see a SK with some sort of protective ability as being too unlikely. In fact if Vifam hadn't said who he was targeting we never would have know it was her at all, which does kinda make it a defensive ability.

Lastly, there was no kill last night that I would attribute to either a second scumteam or a SK so it's likely that Drixx's poison doc claim isn't fake. I mean if Kraska wasn't targeted there would have only been two kills last night, which isn't much for a game this size. Also since poison is kinda related to biological weapons so there's a tie in there (though kinda tenuous).

We're probably missing a kill from the poisoner yet, so I'm guessing that the poisoner is both Kraska and that shes a SK.

[Mirhawk]

I KNOOOOOOOOOOOOW .

I have to stop responding to old stuff, but I just cant help myslef.

[DiamondSentinel]

I assume Mirhawk wouldn't have made that comment without some kind of evidence, which puts you at a priority over a scumteam to me, because I know who you are. Don't try to frame lynching 3P as defending the Mafia. Both of 'em have to die before we can win, what difference does the order make?

I should clarify that I have a theory, not evidence.

I can lay it out though, basically it goes like this.

First of all a town player who defends themselves by blowing people up with biological weapons sounds super friggin sketchy in the first place. I haven't seen far enough into the show to confirm if this is something that the character she claimed to be would do, but using biological weapons for self defense sounds like horseshit.

Secondly, bulletproof serial killers aren't that uncommon so I don't see a SK with some sort of protective ability as being too unlikely. In fact if Vifam hadn't said who he was targeting we never would have know it was her at all, which does kinda make it a defensive ability.

Lastly, there was no kill last night that I would attribute to either a second scumteam or a SK so it's likely that Drixx's poison doc claim isn't fake. I mean if Kraska wasn't targeted there would have only been two kills last night, which isn't much for a game this size. Also since poison is kinda related to biological weapons so there's a tie in there (though kinda tenuous).

We're probably missing a kill from the poisoner yet, so I'm guessing that the poisoner is both Kraska and that shes a SK.

If she were a serial killer, that would imply that she killed them out of self-defense, which meant that she was parley to the neighborhood. Which she doesn't seem to be.

[PJ.]

yo, make notes, figure them out, then posts the cliff notes version.

Unless it's either about TAM or Nosferatu, stop shitting it up with shit we already solved 40 pages ago.

[Mirhawk]

If she were a serial killer, that would imply that she killed them out of self-defense, which meant that she was parley to the neighborhood. Which she doesn't seem to be.

Nah I was thinking a PGO and a SK at the same time, which wouldn't require access to the neighborhood.

[Mirhawk]

I'm fairly certain I'm going to keep shitting it up, but on the topic of TAM and Nos I suppose I can at least elaborate on what I'm thinking.

Nos sucks and should eat bullets tonight. But lynching him is useless seeing as how regardless of alignment there isn't going to be any way to tell who was lynching him because he was a shitty lurksack and who was bussing him becuase he was a shitty lurksack.

Masters is okay I guess, I would rather lynch a couple other people but I have not yet seen any reason to not lynch them. Have they claimed? They should, seeing as how they are at the moment the only viable lynch over Nos, and lynching Nos instead of shooting him is stupid.

[DiamondSentinel]

If she were a serial killer, that would imply that she killed them out of self-defense, which meant that she was parley to the neighborhood. Which she doesn't seem to be.

Nah I was thinking a PGO and a SK at the same time, which wouldn't require access to the neighborhood.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, unless her only kill was a PGO, then that would throw off balance.

Also, from a flavor standpoint, that doesn't really seem to make much sense. I can't think of an evil/non bounty-hunter, who kills reflexively. Of course, I can't think of anyone who used bio weapons and explosives, so that's already a bit bust. But whatever.

[Mirhawk]

I don't know a lot about how balance is done but I'm not sure you're right on that. We're talking about one (or two) extra kills that very well might never happen that have more or less equal chances of targeting either side (assuming that there are a decent number of scum PR's).

Anyways we more or less have to lynch her at some point. We're essentially talking about a player who has admitted to killing an investigative role last night without claiming PGO on day one. We have no way of ever confirming her role short of shoveling another PR into her and even that would only confirm role, not alignment. Vig's would die too so that's not happening. Are scum going to kill her at any point? Nope, they have a perfect reason not to, she'll be in the endgame guaranteed. At which point the remaining players are just going to have to have this same conversation over again with the caveat that if they choose wrong they loose the game.

[Radical Rat]

Do we even know if this game HAS a vig to shoot Nos?

[Mirhawk]

I enjoyed the adventures of birdkop.

[Mirhawk]

Someone shot Grapes, no way scum or a SK would have bothered with him seeing as how he was hardcore lurking.

[DiamondSentinel]

@Mirhawk - Indeed. She is a necessary lynch, just about, unless we can find some other way to prove her or whatever.
@Radical Rat - With this many people, it's a safe assumption that there is a vig. Also, we had 3 kills last night. Let's hope there aren't 3 scum factions.

[Vaxkiller]

Do we even know if this game HAS a vig to shoot Nos?

Fish much?

[Mirhawk]

Idk if there is other support for a wagon on her, let's do it. Just seems like it's me and you.

The lack of support for an Expedience lynch tells me that Scum aren't getting on that wagon, so now I'm even more convinced that she's Scum.

Alas, if the votes aren't there that lynch won't happen today. Maybe some kind-hearted Townie will Vig her tonight or maybe we can lynch her tomorrow.

Of the others, I think Kraska's lynch will give us the most information. So I'll go there.

I'm always bemused when I see someone claiming that the reason that their favored lynch isn't going forward is because its on scum. Nevermind the fact that at least half the players are town and they obviously don't agree with you either, which would in reality make the person bringing it up the real reason for the lynch going nowhere seeing as how they're the one failing to convince others that they're right in the first place.

But nope, its a conspiracy, the black helicopters are circling the thread and are forcing everyone to not take your read seriously. #Tinfoilhats

I don't actually have an opinion on Expediance, but I saw this post and immediately felt like sharing.

[Mirhawk]

Hi. Where the heck did this nosterafu wagon come from?

Who do you think is a better lynch between me and Nosferatu? Why?

Probably you. It's pretty obvious that nosterafu's wagon is mostly comprised of scum. The wagon fell out of nowhere and got 9 votes in like 5 minutes. Nobody has even provided a case on him yet. Everyone is just like "he hasn't done much so let's lynch him". I don't know if nos is actually scum and the people on his wagon are from another faction or if he's a mislynch, but I'm just not comfortable with with quickly that all came together. You're a better lynch because you're the only other option

This is quite possibly the most legit post I've seen from Skrub so far.

[Radical Rat]

Do we even know if this game HAS a vig to shoot Nos?

Fish much?

I'm not asking for a vig to claim.
It just seems foolish to me to put faith into a PR that may not even exist.

[Klingoncelt]

It looks like you just rolled dice or threw names into the Randomizer. I just looked at it, it's still shit.

What reads in particular do you disagree with? Which ones do you disagree with?

Saying that my reads are shit because they are shit isn't particularly helpful.

I put the list in alphabetical order here and it still looks random:

Aristophanes - town
Cerberus v666 - town
davesaz - town
DiamondSentinel - town
Drixx - town
Killthestory - town
MathBlade - town
Nero Cain - town
Panzerjager - town
pisskop - town
RachMarie - town
Skrub - town
SpyreX - town

Albert B. Rampage - townlean
Expedience - townlean
kraska77 - townlean
PeregrineV - townlean

Klingoncelt - kill
mhsmith0 - kill
Mirhawk - kill
Nosferatu - kill
Radical Rat - kill
randomidget - kill
SirCakez - kill
Varsoon - kill
Vaxkiller - kill
Vedith - kill

Neighborhood:
Davesaz - town
MathBlade - town
Mirhawk - kill
Panzerjager - town

That you're Townleaning Expedience but wanting to lynch me shows that you aren't paying attention. With all the noise MathBlade made about Kraska, Kraska Leans Town, Math is fully Town, but among the Neighborhood, Mirhawk is Scum. A number of players are reading Rach Marie as Scum, you have her as solid Town. You have Nero as Town, what has he done? You have Nosferatu as Scum, what did he do?

I have to know, which of you assembled this list? It was Bear, I'll bet.

Does it affect you in a negative, positive, or neutral way that during most of the game you're voting alongside players on your Kill list? Doesn't that skeeve you out just a tiny bit?