Open 656- Tit For Tat - Endgame

[farside22]

And I'm happy with my vote.

[Fire Assassin]

Whats the current vote count?

[Fire Assassin]

I am considering a gamma wagon, but Persephone was vigged so I think that's pointless?

Explain this, please. Why is a Gamma wagon pointless given that Perse/Flubber was vigged?

If they were vigged than that doesn't mean their reads have any merit. If its a scum kill that means SOMETHING.

[Harkonnen97]

PUTA

[Yuria]

Meh.. Im not so sure eager is town anymore...

vote: Njac

please explain you case on farside again.

[Yuria]

I am going to have to over read things. My reads are just totally wrong.

V/LA till Sunday 6th November. I will try to get on when I can

Noted.

How so? What did these flips prove differently to you?

[Infinity 324]

PUTA

Answer my question plskthx

[FancyPants]

PUTA

Will you explain why you want NJAC lynched?

[FancyPants]

I'm giving myself a deadline here saying expect a reread from me by tonight. I want to see everyone's interactions with Textcat, Persephone and even Alban (since he was the early wagon) knowing that they are all town.
I'm by no means convinced that NJAC is town but I'm worried that we are going to fall into the gambler's fallacy of thinking of our late wagons was scum when all of them could have been town.
I could see scum being something like Eager/Kop/Farside quite easily, but I will pay special attention to NJAC on my reread.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.01

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

NJAC

(L-2): Harkonnen97, farside22, Yuria

Kop

(L-4): eagerSnake

farside22

(L-4): NJAC

Not Voting

(4): Kop, Infinity 324, FancyPants, Fire Assassin

Mod notes: Hi, I'm the backup mod!

Kop is V/LA until 6th November.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-11-11 10:00:00)

[Kop]

I am going to have to over read things. My reads are just totally wrong.

V/LA till Sunday 6th November. I will try to get on when I can

Noted.

How so? What did these flips prove differently to you?

I expected Texcat to flip scum, with her flipping town, it's making me rethink things because I think I'm giving my town reads far too much credit.

I had a slight town read on Eager, I am doubting that read. I overlooked that read last night whilst I had 5 minutes, and I'm actually warming up to some pressure being added to Eager.

I am going to see if I can get back on for a bit longer this afternoon to over look other things.

I am still confident in Hark being town.

[Harkonnen97]

i will post a bit later friends

[NJAC]

And I'm happy with my vote.

You mean, happy like when scum are happy because the mislynch they're pushing is gaining traction?

[NJAC]

vote: Njac

please explain you case on farside again.

To summarize my case on farside:

1) Sgz's posts are the kind of posts I've seen from newb scum. His jump on alban's wagon in his first post is especially bad, like a newb scum opportunistically jumping on a forming wagon. This is mainly gut, so I admit not being a strong point of my case.

2) Meta reasons involving farside's post style matching that of a game in which I played with her and she was scum.

3) Her opportunistic jump on my wagon, while throwing shade on Gamma at the same time.

4) Add to the above Mini's 538, 539, 542 and 544.

Farside is scum my friends.

[NJAC]

@Yuria:

What's your case on me?

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: 11-16

I'd love to go into detail about every player thats in the game, and why I have them where I have but I am too tired to post in great detail, so it's going to be sketchy at best.

I have read back and got myself nearly up to date with everything, but here is where I am in with reads:


Up to now, I'm liking Fancypants, Fire Assassin for town. Slight town reads on Yuria, Hark, Alban, Eager. Null on SGZ, NJAC, Persephone. Slight scum reading on Texcat, Gamma.

Hark is only a slight town read simply because I don't see suicidal play like that as scum. It's simply not a viable game play that I would see scum do at this stage of the game, to openly put themselves out there. And if I think more about it, I think it's reaction testing to see who would actually push it to get an easy lynch by doing what he is doing. It's probably not the best strategy to finding scum because it has higher risk of backfiring, and less reward, or I may even be thinking out the box and this isn't his sole intention. I wouldn't call him newb town, or a VI, but I think it could be just his way of generating discussions, engaging with people, and looking for reactions, it appears poorly played, but it's his own unique way.

why too much town

Firstly I think we should hustle towards a lynch, 5 days with a weekend in between is really not a lot of time.

Now for a quick catch up, going over my thoughts on everybody in no particular order.

I think the

Alban

is probably town -

4. Most importantly, in a game where you need 7 to lynch me, 5 of you are currently voting against me. What's the likelihood that half of the players have formed an opinion against a player so quickly? What is the voted player likely to be in the case? Will the consensus happen so quickly if I were mafia?
.

Some good paranoia in this line, I don't necessarily agree with the logic but I can see the town thought process.

Don't like this post by

Persephone

131, seem more interested in not looking like scum rather than lynching scum.

I haven't really liked

Textcat

worrying over people's town reads (86 and 102), it feels scummy and counter productive. Nothing wrong with town-reading, but I feel scum want the potential pool of suspects to remain as large as possible.
However this post:

who else beside yuria is ur scumbuddy texie ?

And when did you quit beating your wife?

Are you trying to tie me to Yuria? Why?

Is interesting, I think fearing being tied to someone is a very townie response, townies don't know who is scum and therefore don't want to be tied to anyone. In fact there is an advantage for scum cat to be tied to town Yuria.
Therefore I come to the conclusion that textcat and yuria are scum together, or neither are scum (more likely at this stage).

Hark

is probably town but that whole scum claiming business is pretty annoying and anti-town. Do you get Nk'ed early in games often?

Yuria

seems to be game-solving for me, but I can see her potentially fooling me.

Gamma

is pretty null, struggling to get a read, why do you town read textcat gamma?

NJAC

is a town lean but has collectively said very little.

I''m town reading both

Eager

and

Fire Assasin

for similar reasons (that basically boils down to a IDGAF attitude).

That leaves the lurkers of Kop, Sgz and Persephone.
I can definitely see two scum in those three.

I kinda like Persephone because of 131. I can live with Kop as well.

For now.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Persephone
Look at her ISO, I could definitely see her being newb-scum who is unable to play due to not knowing how to manufacture reads.

Like this post too.

Also like fancy's push on gamma on these pages. It would be so easy to call gamma scum now that he dug up and pointed out the logical inconsistencies but he seems to be genuinely trying to figure out gamma. Comfortable calling fancy town even though I may not be sure about the other people I've called town up until now

Lot's of "let's get a lynch", "xx is scum" posts, zzz

[NJAC]

I am still confident in Hark being town.

Why are you so confident about it?

[Infinity 324]

11-15*

[farside22]

And I'm happy with my vote.

You mean, happy like when scum are happy because the mislynch they're pushing is gaining traction?

Happy lynching obvious scum.

The amount of times of saying your in catch up with no other scum reads.
Opportunitistic jump on textcat and vague reasons for your scum read.
Oh wait apparently thinking I'm scum for voting you while still scum reading someone and you do the same thing.
Pffffffffffffffffffffffft

[Kop]

I am still confident in Hark being town.

Why are you so confident about it?

I just feel that he's town, mainly gut. Not bothered about his appearance and how he's pushing things.

[Kop]

VOTE: Eagersnake

I am warming to this.

Spoiler:

Voted for me, RVS. He then looked a bit frustrated that my wagon dissolved.

Voted for Texcat. Never offered to why he placed his vote there.

Moved it too Gamma, with a 'OMG', took Houses style, nothing to explain, and did it for the lulz.

Moved vote back to me. Still no reason.

He then moved back to Texcat claiming to just get it done. Wanted Texcat lynched in the back end towards the day finishing.

Starts of day 2 with a vote on me, still no explanation.

So, I did have a slight town read on him early game, mainly gut. Now that I have over read his ISO, I am seriously doubting myself on this slot right now.

Eager, your votes throughout this game have had very little explanations to why you have placed them there. You have given us no stances to where you are in terms of how your reading people. Please explain your thought processes behind these votes? Were they just pressure votes? Were they bandwagoning votes in hope that it would achieve a lynch?

[Infinity 324]

^ why vote him before questioning him as opposed to the other way around? Do you find that town tend to explain their votes more often than scum?

[NJAC]

The amount of times of saying your in catch up with no other scum reads.
Opportunitistic jump on textcat and vague reasons for your scum read.
Oh wait apparently thinking I'm scum for voting you while still scum reading someone and you do the same thing.

1) What's wrong with not having other scum reads? What are your other scum reads? Also I said my wagon could be a counter wagon of texcat's, so I had a slight scum read on that slot. I'm currently saying that Harko could be scum, so that's another scum read.

2) I already explained my vote on texcat. I don't consider the reasons for my vote vague, I've been very concise about them.

3) Please elaborate in this one, because I'm not following what you're saying. What same thing did I do?

[Kop]

^ why vote him before questioning him as opposed to the other way around? Do you find that town tend to explain their votes more often than scum?

I often feel that by placing a vote, it adds pressure.

Town have there reasons by there votes, and why they are placing them. I would like to see his reasons why he voted for and why he did, voting without explanation can often be seen as wagoning in aim to lynch, sometimes can be scum motivated as it doesn't incriminate them by not offering there input to why they are voting there.

One of his votes achieved the wagon that lynched Texcat, whilst texcat was highly regarded as scum (I also had the same view), but he never contributed anything towards that wagon. And never explained why he wanted Texcat lynched.

[Infinity 324]

You didn't really answer the second question.

I get that not answering questions can be scum-motivated, a lot of things can be scum-motivated. But in your experience, is it more likely to come from scum?