The real folk blues [Canceled]

[DiamondSentinel]

God damn it why don't roles follow the fucking wiki?!?!?!

Is this a question from me or not? Please bold if you want to ask a question from me. thanks.

@Frozen angel That was more frustration than an actual question. You may answer it if you wish but that honestly would be hunting the mod about why you designed something the way you did. I think I would want to talk about this post game though as the bastard elements question should be yes if roles don't follow the wiki. Anything not normal is bastard. However that doesn't seem to be an opinion shared so I will stew and talk privately post game.

Holy crap. This is the theme queue. Assume everything is non-normal. That is the point of this queue. It isn't to play games that have a fancy shamncy themes. It's to play games that don't fit in the normal queue and don't work in open. You ought to know that, since Shadowrun was VERY non-normal.

In fact, I'm convinced you're BSing at this point.

[MathBlade]

Shadowrun was declared bastard at launch. Huge difference.

[kraska77]

Moving on....
Sorry for all my recent bitchface posting. I'll try to catch-up tonight
Sorry math I've been real rude

[SpyreX]

Lols it's a bastard game now the hits keep on coming

[MathBlade]

Theme games are ones with new mechanics but still use the wiki for roles given. E.g. A cop isn't a hidden vig. The wiki is there so people know what roles do. They can be bastard if they involve cult or alignment changes etc or if roles don't follow the wiki.

[Drixx]

Drixx is prodded. He has 24 hours (till (expired on 2016-11-02 06:30:00)) to respond before I start searching for a replacement.

This is his second prod.

Please announce V/LA if you can't post each 48 hours or tell me if you have a weekly schedule for playing(for example if you can't play during weekends) and use the V/LA flag in User Control Panel. Thanks!

Wasn't much I could do. My internet started screwing up on Friday and was down about 90% of the time until a tech came today. I am not even caught up yet. Just got your PM though. I'm still here and trying desperately to catch up and make myself useful. I would post an image of my handwritten log of the downtime that I kept so the tech would take me seriously and fix the problem, but I think that might constitute an outside influence.

[Nero Cain]

For all those that are arguing a KTS town via meta ok. He's still vig worthy.

[DiamondSentinel]

That was because of the randomness of the missions, Math. Not any of the roles.

If you actually read the definition of bastard, it is any undisclosed randomness, mod interaction in the game, lies that can not be logically predicted, etc.

Non-normal roles fall under NONE of those categories.

[MathBlade]

Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? (Yes/No)

It is more that a Gunsmith doesn't get a result on a PGO is more of what I have a problem with. It drastically impacted my reads.
A gunsmith operates based on roles and now instead of being almost damn certain Kraska was lying now there is a slim albeit remote chance Kraska is town. Roles are supposed to follow the wiki so people can get reads based off that. When they don't it throws a serious monkey wrench in how things work.

[DiamondSentinel]

MathBlade, you've been on the forums for 3 years! How could you not have learned that theme games are not normal 90% of the time! Non-normal roles, again, fall under absolutely none of those categories. I'll even go down the list.

1. Cults-Nope
2. Moderator Lies-Absolutely not
3. Secret Win Conditions-Not even close
4. Non-Randomness-How does that even apply?
5. Direct mod influence-Nope

You're 0 for 5, kiddo.

[MathBlade]

Saying a player is a gunsmith but then having that role not work as per the wiki to me falls under moderator information that cannot be anticipated.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade, you've been on the forums for 3 years! How could you not have learned that theme games are not normal 90% of the time! Non-normal roles, again, fall under absolutely none of those categories. I'll even go down the list.

1. Cults-Nope
2. Moderator Lies-Absolutely not
3. Secret Win Conditions-Not even close
4. Non-Randomness-How does that even apply?
5. Direct mod influence-Nope

You're 0 for 5, kiddo.

1 for 5. A gunsmith that does not follow the wiki to me is a moderator lie.

[DiamondSentinel]

Roles are not supposed to follow the wiki, especially in Theme Games. That's why people come to the Theme Queue.

Also, why the fuck would it matter if a gunsmith gets a result from a PGO? They die anyways.

PEdit: GOD FUCKING DAMN IT MATHBLADE SHUT UP AND STOP BEING LIKE THAT! ITS NOT A MODERATOR LIE! IT IS FULLY TO BE EXPECTED WHEN IT SAYS "DOES THAT PERSON HAVE A GUN". WELL, IF SOMEONE IS BLOWN UP OR KILLED WITH A KATANA OR KILLED WITH BIOLOGICAL WARFARE THAT IS NOT A GUN! THIS IS A THEME GAME! BY DEFINITION OF THE NAME, THE THEME HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE GAME. THIS IS REASONABLY ANTICIPATED.

[Nero Cain]

Maybe I'm not understanding or something but I don't think making a PGO that doesn't have a gun is bastard or anything.

[DiamondSentinel]

Maybe I'm not understanding or something but I don't think making a PGO that doesn't have a gun is bastard or anything.

Merci beaucoup.

[MathBlade]

I disagree but this is why I wanted to talk about it post game.

Theme games are not exempt from the wiki requirement. They can build their own mechanics and roles but any roles in the wiki should follow the wiki.

You are not going to convince me by yelling. Let's move on like I tried to do civilly before.

[Nero Cain]

That's why people come to the Theme Queue.

I thought they came here to have nerdgasams and play in bastard/"rolemadness" games b/c a vt role doesn't satisfy our ADD youth of today.

[MathBlade]

Otherwise you could make a cop a vig and then go "it's theme". It is not a reasonable thing to expect a role to not follow the wiki.

[MathBlade]

An unreasonable*

[Nero Cain]

Math, there's a difference in modifying a role and changing a roles mechanics.

[Frozen Angel]

Saying a player is a gunsmith but then having that role not work as per the wiki to me falls under moderator information that cannot be anticipated.

Weak/restricted roles are pretty much casual based on the wiki itself.

This is totally anticipate-able in the same manner a godfather is anticipate-able - maybe even in a more accurate way. The game has a decent flavor involved.

The game has kill flavors and the roles might work accordingly. That's the game theme and its what you signed up for. Its not role madness nor bastard by any definitions.

[kraska77]

Otherwise you could make a cop a vig and then go "it's theme". It is not a reasonable thing to expect a role to not follow the wiki.

True. But people have been quoting frozens posts for you for how many pages now. And u refused to listen

[Nero Cain]

though a cop kills instead of investigates would have to be told.

[SpyreX]

This is the best popcorn it is endless

[RachMarie]

My role in Mastin's game was most definitely anything BUT normal and you were in that game, Math. I was a 3rd party with a 1 shot recruitment allied with town and Exp also was 3rd party allied with town. We were suppose to be kind of a lighter version of an Innocent Child role in that game. That definitely was not anything you would find in the Wiki. That was why Wake and I claimed Masons after I recruited him. Because it made it believable until we had enough data for the town to realize that not all the undead and so on were with the mafia teams.

In Wakes game we had 3 Masons the role was the same, but usually it is 2 instead of 3. You had macho with no real other role to speak of instead of macho cop which according to the wiki is the usual role that macho is modifying. We had citizens instead of vanila townies and some other strange dynamics, and that in spite of it originally being set up as a normal game.

Expand your horizons a tad.

We need 15 votes to get a lynch today. Your tunneling could cost us a lynch.

NL this early in the game is bad juju.